Pakistan vs India

Announcements Posted on
How helpful is our apprenticeship zone? Have your say with our short survey 02-12-2016
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samendrag)
    Well the fact is that for most crucial decisions in history it was only one person who made that decision, but you cant just blame that one person, you have to blame the group as it is the group who gave that person the power to make the decision.
    Which group is to blame though? Muslims were still a minority in the Mughal Empire, if anything Hindus being the majority are to blame to allow that to happen going by your logic. The Mughals weren't democratically elected.

    Or are you saying the Mughals and those in position of power are to blame? In which case I don't disagree with you.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Which group is to blame though? Muslims were still a minority in the Mughal Empire, if anything Hindus being the majority are to blame to allow that to happen going by your logic. The Mughals weren't democratically elected.

    Or are you saying the Mughals and those in position of power are to blame? In which case I don't disagree with you.
    True that mughals werent elected so in that case, I agree that the Mughals are to blame but when people in power are elected the people should also be to blame. You can work out the implications for yourself, though sometimes I do agree that governments do things which the public do not approve of but I guess that is out of our control. But people do tend to generalise and the fact is that you cannot go against everyone as that will just create more hatred and will just emphasise your differences.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samendrag)
    True that mughals werent elected so in that case, I agree that the Mughals are to blame but when people in power are elected the people should also be to blame. You can work out the implications for yourself, though sometimes I do agree that governments do things which the public do not approve of but I guess that is out of our control. But people do tend to generalise and the fact is that you cannot go against everyone as that will just create more hatred and will just emphasise your differences.
    But sometimes the government can misinform their population or divert attention elsewhere.

    For example: a terrorist attack happens in Pakistan, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by India. A terrorist attack happens in India, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by Pakistan.

    Now both countries can easily blame the other country to avoid blame on themselves and even show themselves being tough with strong statements to maintain support for themselves. (If you admit to simply not controlling terrorists in your own country, you look weak as a leader, blaming it on someone else and you can point fingers and rally your people behind you).

    When you have patriotic people, it's easy to get them emotional and manipulate them. Avoiding any attention on your shortcomings or incompetence in your leadership, and diverting attention away from other internal issues.

    Both India and Pakistan have plenty of internal issues to address, but when the focus turns on each other at times like this, everybody forgets about it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    But sometimes the government can misinform their population or divert attention elsewhere.

    For example: a terrorist attack happens in Pakistan, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by India. A terrorist attack happens in India, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by Pakistan.

    Now both countries can easily blame the other country to avoid blame on themselves and even show themselves being tough with strong statements to maintain support for themselves. (If you admit to simply not controlling terrorists in your own country, you look weak as a leader, blaming it on someone else and you can point fingers and rally your people behind you).

    When you have patriotic people, it's easy to get them emotional and manipulate them. Avoiding any attention on your shortcomings or incompetence in your leadership, and diverting attention away from other internal issues.

    Both India and Pakistan have plenty of internal issues to address, but when the focus turns on each other at times like this, everybody forgets about it.
    True I dont really like patriotism much at all, but when is there a terrorist attack in pakistan in which there are hundreds of deaths, never, google 'terroist attacks in pakistan' but in india terrorist attacks that lead to a lot of deaths, a lot.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samendrag)
    True I dont really like patriotism much at all, but when is there a terrorist attack in pakistan in which there are hundreds of deaths, never, google 'terroist attacks in pakistan' but in india terrorist attacks that lead to a lot of deaths, a lot.
    What I find is that Pakistan faces a lot of terrorists attacks, but mostly killing under hundred civilians at a time (mostly 20-50), although collective there is a lot of deaths. India I find has less attacks in comparison, but has had bigger incidents leading to lots of deaths from one incident (e.g. 2008 Mumbai attacks).
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countr...rincidents.htm
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)

    I don't know why I try though, talk to any Pakistani or Indian about their country and it's like talking to a brick wall, both think they're the best most amazing god damn country in the world with nothing wrong with them :lol: Patriotism is a cancer
    You saying Pakistan isn't the msot amazing country in world? You treacherous Samosa.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    If I was Indian or not Pakistani you wouldn't be saying this. I even said I'd like to see better relations to prove different religions can live peacefully.

    I don't know why I try though, talk to any Pakistani or Indian about their country and it's like talking to a brick wall, both think they're the best most amazing god damn country in the world with nothing wrong with them :lol: Patriotism is a cancer
    Yeah but you only choose to criticise India's treatment of religious minorities when in Pakistan it's 50 times worse. The police regularly turn a blind eye to murders and attacks on religious minorities. How do you feel about this? *
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Yeah but you only choose to criticise India's treatment of religious minorities when in Pakistan it's 50 times worse. The police regularly turn a blind eye to murders and attacks on religious minorities. How do you feel about this? *
    I was mainly referring to certain individuals in this thread...

    And of course I hate it, I'm a huge critic of certain laws in Pakistan and firmly believe religion should have no influence in government and the laws set. But I'm hardly going to discuss it with people who have no desire to have a constructive conversation about it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    I was mainly referring to certain individuals in this thread...

    And of course I hate it, I'm a huge critic of certain laws in Pakistan and firmly believe religion should have no influence in government and the laws set. But I'm hardly going to discuss it with people who have no desire to have a constructive conversation about it.
    ...and yet pakistan founded on principle of islamic governance of the nation
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Which group is to blame though? Muslims were still a minority in the Mughal Empire, if anything Hindus being the majority are to blame to allow that to happen going by your logic. The Mughals weren't democratically elected.

    Or are you saying the Mughals and those in position of power are to blame? In which case I don't disagree with you.
    the mugals are the reason you are a muslim today dude ( assuming youre pakistani)
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chakede)
    ...and yet pakistan founded on principle of islamic governance of the nation
    So that's it? I should just accept it? Even if I don't agree with certain laws?

    (Original post by Chakede)
    the mugals are the reason you are a muslim today dude ( assuming youre pakistani)
    Not they're not. Islam came to the region before them.

    How is this even relevant to what I posted? It's not like the Mughals were good Muslims who I should be looking up to.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    So that's it? I should just accept it? Even if I don't agree with certain laws?



    Not they're not. Islam came to the region before them.

    How is this even relevant to what I posted? It's not like the Mughals were good Muslims who I should be looking up to.
    You realise that if you dont accept this, you dont accept the creation of Pakistan?

    Yes Islam came way before that, mostly after the second battle of Tarain in 1191 when that ****** Jaichand betrayed Prithviraj Chauhan and what resulted was mass looting, mass force conversions, mass rapes (millions also killed in a genocide)of which many descendants of the rapists were born and now proudly thump their chests claiming Turkic, arabic ancestry
    (2-3% of Pakistanis pop eg Qureshi, Sayed etc) and other coward Jatts, Memons,Rajpoots and kashmiri pandits etc were force converted later on .
    And now these people promote the cultures of the people who abused,raped ,tortured,oppressed them and want to implement their Gazwa E Hind

    It makes no sense in my head

    A few centuries before that Under the Gupta (Samudragupta ,Chandragupta etc) and Maurya Empires(esp Chandragupt Vikramaditya) which extended from myanmar to parts of Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan( eg Samarkhand), 40-50% of Afghanistan was Buddhist, 20-30% Hindu and others were pagans and sun worshipers. All of pakistan was Hindu or Buddhist/Jains

    Indus valley civilization (said to have started around 3300 BC+) had their main center of civilization in modern day Pakistan and people worshiped pashupati Shiva etc

    Yet these people deny their ancestry



    Even Punjabi was derived from Sanskrit
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Idunno99)
    You realise that if you dont accept this, you dont accept the creation of Pakistan?

    Yes Islam came way before that, mostly after the second battle of Tarain in 1191 when that ****** Jaichand betrayed Prithviraj Chauhan and what resulted was mass looting, mass force conversions, mass rapes (millions also killed in a genocide)of which many descendants of the rapists were born and now proudly thump their chests claiming Turkic, arabic ancestry
    (2-3% of Pakistanis pop eg Qureshi, Sayed etc) and other coward Jatts, Memons,Rajpoots and kashmiri pandits etc were force converted later on .
    And now these people promote the cultures of the people who abused,raped ,tortured,oppressed them and want to implement their Gazwa E Hind

    It makes no sense in my head

    A few centuries before that Under the Gupta (Samudragupta ,Chandragupta etc) and Maurya Empires(esp Chandragupt Vikramaditya) which extended from myanmar to parts of Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan( eg Samarkhand), 40-50% of Afghanistan was Buddhist, 20-30% Hindu and others were pagans and sun worshipers. All of pakistan was Hindu or Buddhist/Jains

    Indus valley civilization (said to have started around 3300 BC+) had their main center of civilization in modern day Pakistan and people worshiped pashupati Shiva etc

    Yet these people deny their ancestry



    Even Punjabi was derived from Sanskrit
    Tbh, the creation of it was necessary because by 1947 India was on the verge of civil war. What's done is done, now we just need to try and move forward.

    (Btw, because I'm Pakistani/Muslim, doesn't mean you have to argue against every post I make. Try and put your bigoted hatred to one side for a second)

    I don't deny my ancestry, I don't know many who do deny it. Did you get this from Pakistanis you know? Or just online/from other people?

    It's also possible some Muslims converted out of choice? Happens all the time. Muslims end up converting to different religions too.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Idunno99)
    You realise that if you dont accept this, you dont accept the creation of Pakistan?

    Yes Islam came way before that, mostly after the second battle of Tarain in 1191 when that ****** Jaichand betrayed Prithviraj Chauhan and what resulted was mass looting, mass force conversions, mass rapes (millions also killed in a genocide)of which many descendants of the rapists were born and now proudly thump their chests claiming Turkic, arabic ancestry
    (2-3% of Pakistanis pop eg Qureshi, Sayed etc) and other coward Jatts, Memons,Rajpoots and kashmiri pandits etc were force converted later on .
    And now these people promote the cultures of the people who abused,raped ,tortured,oppressed them and want to implement their Gazwa E Hind

    It makes no sense in my head

    A few centuries before that Under the Gupta (Samudragupta ,Chandragupta etc) and Maurya Empires(esp Chandragupt Vikramaditya) which extended from myanmar to parts of Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan( eg Samarkhand), 40-50% of Afghanistan was Buddhist, 20-30% Hindu and others were pagans and sun worshipers. All of pakistan was Hindu or Buddhist/Jains

    Indus valley civilization (said to have started around 3300 BC+) had their main center of civilization in modern day Pakistan and people worshiped pashupati Shiva etc

    Yet these people deny their ancestry



    Even Punjabi was derived from Sanskrit
    I like the absurd claims you make mainly because u have no source and this is extremist Hindu propaganda P.s are you from/support shiv sena?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlvlVictim)
    I like the absurd claims you make mainly because u have no source and this is extremist Hindu propaganda P.s are you from/support shiv sena?

    No Source? Do some research, google it
    Everything i have written i have researched on Wikipedia
    There is no such thing as real extremist hindus dude read their holy books,
    Indian religions let you believe whatever you want and however you want none of them even have a concept of conversion or jihad written in them or saying that their religion is the best and all other will go to hell
    or men should beat their wives, or have 4 wives, kill the kafirs, taqiya lying etc

    I have recently read the Qur'an and hadith and its pretty horrible, inhumane,sexist and contradictory. I know as a good muslim you are supposed to dispute everything i say so no use arguing to peeps like you

    No wonder sikh , buddhist, hindus ( or even Jews christians)dont go around making videos of cutting peoples throats and shouting "Om mani padme hum" or "Hail dalai lama "etc

    On sept 11, 2001 soldiers of Allah killed more people than the Ku clux clan had ever killed in its 145 year history.

    Islam is the only real cause of Jihad/ISIS/Taliban/Al Qaeda/Al Nusra etc in the world. The koran asks muslims to insert terror into the hearts of the kaffirs, to terrorise them and scare them

    They (Indian religion) dont even consider their religions to be religions to start with but ways of life

    I support Shiromani akali dal -BJP

    Shiv sena is a regional party which is only dominant in the state of Maharashtra. It does not operate anywhere else

    But oh well Karma is a ***** look at the middle east . Islam killing itself, Muslims killing muslims instead of focusing on the kafirs although they do kill a significant amount of Kaffirs but nothing compared to killing themselves

    But wait till the oil runs out in/or becomes useless in a few decades thats when the real party will begin!

    The truth is too bitter to digest isnt it?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Tbh, the creation of it was necessary because by 1947 India was on the verge of civil war. What's done is done, now we just need to try and move forward.

    (Btw, because I'm Pakistani/Muslim, doesn't mean you have to argue against every post I make. Try and put your bigoted hatred to one side for a second)

    I don't deny my ancestry, I don't know many who do deny it. Did you get this from Pakistanis you know? Or just online/from other people?

    It's also possible some Muslims converted out of choice? Happens all the time. Muslims end up converting to different religions too.
    Yes it was necessary because of the seeds of hatred planted by Jinnah and his muslim league. Had he never done such a screwed up thing then the riots, horrible consequences of partition would have never happened and millions would have survived
    But how come a larger number of Muslims stayed behind and did not migrate to Pakistan? If it was so necessary

    So I'm Bigoted eh? Pakistan or Sharif&Sharif company is not bigoted for denying that Hafiz Sayed, Mullah massod azhar and other perpetrators of 26/11 are sheltered, protected and funded by them by funneling US aid ,who incite hate on India openly to people in Pakistan and encourage them to Wage Jihad against India and convert all non-muslim Indians to islam ? Your holy books are not bigoted?
    I have nothing against muslims but i am against stuff in the Koran, Hadith or shariat
    Laws
    I have no choice but to be a bigot when arguing/fighting with bigots( like you)

    Source- Sermons of Hafiz Sayed on Youtube
    Hell, he even had a Twitter account until it was recently banned by Twitter


    You dont does not mean that others dont. I have encountered dozens of Pakistani muslims here on Tsr who deny and say that they came from Saudi or Turkey

    And hundreds on Twitter whist having Hindu surnames ( eg Chauhan, Rana) claiming that they have arab, persian ancestry.
    But they are traitors to their Rich rajpoot (Rajputana)heritage (And resistance) so it does not matter anyways

    I have met a few punjabi pakis and they too deny their jatt ancestory while having surnames like Cheema, bhatti, Chahal etc

    Sikh and Hindu Jatt have the same surnames. Which proves that their ancestors were Hindus

    Why are they so ashamed of it?

    Yes it is indeed true that some converted out of choice or because of Benefits (eg higher ranks in the military/society or abstaining from Jizya )during the mughal empire or delhi sutanates but most did not. Most (60-70 %) were converted out of force. The foundations of islam in the Indian subcontinent were layed by the sword
    Do you know how hard it is to convert from Islam? They declare you as apostates and you can be according to sharia killed for it
    So it does not happen all the time because of how hard it is
    I know a family that did and they were beaten up inhumanely by a massive group of muslims lead by a imam with bamboo sticks, kicked etc and were forced to convert to islam again by their community


    You.cant expect people to all of a suddent abandon their thousands of years old traditions ( Hindus etc) out of peace or love can you
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    If Hafiz saeed is a culprit then so is modhi and every Indian soldier stationed in Kashmir
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    This site provides some detailed insight into the history of oppression in India - http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Partition? What partition? How long ago is this going back?
    Partition was in 1947. Before 1947 there was only one country called India and no Pakistan. 1947 was when the first war took place and there were a further two more wars. The last war in 1999 revolved around a disputed territory called Kashmir. It's very complicated and impossible to explain in a post.
 
 
 
Write a reply… Reply
Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: October 16, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Today on TSR
Poll
Would you rather have...?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.