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Trump & Brexit is what happens when you smear all who disagree as racist watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Corbyn never wanted to be leader really. He was just sick and tired of hollow 'moderates' demanding that Labour becomes more right wing and loses its principles. They were obsessed with the 'centre ground'.Look how well choosing the centrist Clinton has been for the Democrats.


    For years and years the working classes have been telling us how they hate the current economic system. How globalisation is destroying their jobs and communities and we haven't listened and haven't changed our embrace of that system.

    Corbyn, for all his faults at least recognises that anger. He may not have solutions, but like Sanders he sees how the left has lost the working class. By offering no alternative whatsoever. He doesn't have the personal qualities to be leader but I don't take massive issues with his views. He is less obsessed with identity, SJW politics and more interested in leftist economics.
    He calls Hezbollah and Hamas friends, his shadow chancellor suggested we should praise IRA bombers, he thinks we can negotiate with IS and he continuously acts as if he's being harrassed when asked routine questions about his policies. He's a western masochist with a victim mentality, in other words, classic SJW.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Corbyn never wanted to be leader really. He was just sick and tired of hollow 'moderates' demanding that Labour becomes more right wing and loses its principles. They were obsessed with the 'centre ground'.Look how well choosing the centrist Clinton has been for the Democrats.


    For years and years the working classes have been telling us how they hate the current economic system. How globalisation is destroying their jobs and communities and we haven't listened and haven't changed our embrace of that system.

    Corbyn, for all his faults at least recognises that anger. He may not have solutions, but like Sanders he sees how the left has lost the working class. By offering no alternative whatsoever. He doesn't have the personal qualities to be leader but I don't take massive issues with his views. He is less obsessed with identity, SJW politics and more interested in leftist economics.
    I'm working class, my family are working class, I know and am from the working class. He represents the middle class chins trokers who like to pretend they care about what the working class think. He is popular with 1980's comedians who think that swearing in a mock Cockney accent while deriding the working classes is speaking for the everyman.

    Apart from being deeply patronising, it's all a lie, and why Labour are no longer a viable opposition party.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Imma just leave this here



    Can't find source lol, but similar here
    https://www.surveymonkey.com/electio...ials-white-cps

    Absolutely deplorable.
    Minorities voting to promote their interests is "social progress". White people voting to promote their interests is "deplorable".
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    I'm working class, my family are working class, I know and am from the working class. He represents the middle class chins trokers who like to pretend they care about what the working class think. He is popular with 1980's comedians who think that swearing in a mock Cockney accent while deriding the working classes is speaking for the everyman.

    Apart from being deeply patronising, it's all a lie, and why Labour are no longer a viable opposition party.
    But he recognises why people are angry. He recognise that they have been screwed over by globalisation and neoliberalism and are crying out for change. He recognises that the reason trump won was not because voters are sexist or racist but because they were fed up with politics as normal.

    He may not have the solutions but unlike so many on the centre left he recognises that embracing right wing, neoliberal economics has alienated the working classes.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But he recognises why people are angry. He recognise that they have been screwed over by globalisation and neoliberalism and are crying out for change. He recognises that the reason trump won was not because voters are sexist or racist but because they were fed up with politics as normal.

    He may not have the solutions but unlike so many on the centre left he recognises that embracing right wing, neoliberal economics has alienated the working classes.
    He recognises that as an opportunity to push his illiberal ideas on a desperate people and no one's buying it. If the political situation was different he would not change his policies. In other words, he's a deluded idealogue and not offering an alternative based on the suffering of the working classes, at least not of this century.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    He recognises that as an opportunity to push his illiberal ideas on a desperate people and no one's buying it. If the political situation was different he would not change his policies. In other words, he's a deluded idealogue and not offering an alternative based on the suffering of the working classes, at least not of this century.
    Are the centre left offering an alternative though?
    What was Hialry's pitch, 'vote for me and everything will stay the same'? She offered no change whatsoever in an election when so many people were crying out for change.

    While many on the centre left have accused Trump voters of being deplorables, the likes of Sanders, Owen Jones, Corbyn etc have at least recognised that the reason Trump won was because so many are fed up with the prevailing economic system. So many on the centre-left don't realise that. They just continue to assert that the left becoming more and more economically right wing is somehow a golden ticket to electablity.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    Minorities voting to promote their interests is "social progress". White people voting to promote their interests is "deplorable".
    If it's in my interest to punch someone in the face, but in their interests not to be punched in the face, are our interests of equal worth?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Are the centre left offering an alternative though?
    What was Hialry's pitch, 'vote for me and everything will stay the same'? She offered no change whatsoever in an election when so many people were crying out for change.

    While many on the centre left have accused Trump voters of being deplorables, the likes of Sanders, Owen Jones, Corbyn etc have at least recognised that the reason Trump won was because so many are fed up with the prevailing economic system. So many on the centre-left don't realise that. They just continue to assert that the left becoming more and more economically right wing is somehow a golden ticket to electablity.
    So a guy encouraging racists and sexists to vote for him is better than the other candidate, just because the other candidate is more of the same?

    If you care so little about these two issues I can understand why you would vote for Trump. But then I think the rest of society is allowed to judge you for caring so little about these two issues.

    It is actually rather ironic Trumpers telling people that they don't understand why they lost, but at the same time Trumpers fail themselves to understand the issue.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Are the centre left offering an alternative though?
    What was Hialry's pitch, 'vote for me and everything will stay the same'? She offered no change whatsoever in an election when so many people were crying out for change.

    While many on the centre left have accused Trump voters of being deplorables, the likes of Sanders, Owen Jones, Corbyn etc have at least recognised that the reason Trump won was because so many are fed up with the prevailing economic system. So many on the centre-left don't realise that. They just continue to assert that the left becoming more and more economically right wing is somehow a golden ticket to electablity.
    I'm not going around this circle for a fourth time, my OP already addresses my opinion on this. I was answering your question about Corbyn, and Owen Jones lost any right to call himself a journalist in the wake of the Florida attacks. He's an SJW poster child, refusing to blame Islam for anything, shouting Islamophobia when challenged and having other journalists who disagree with him disinvited from even talking about it.
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    I voted leave because I disagree with the idea of anybody from the EU being able to move here no matter their background, however somebody from another continent has to go through a rigorous process to live here, and may not be granted access, even if they desperately need to move from their country. I also vote conservative, and I'm far from 'rich' or 'elite', as my parents own a small business and wouldn't be able to afford to pay their workers £10 an hour or however much Labour want the minimum wage to be. I feel the same towards Brexit as I did with the Tory majority: I keep quiet because the left scream racist at leavers and selfish rich snobs at tory voters.


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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So a guy encouraging racists and sexists to vote for him is better than the other candidate, just because the other candidate is more of the same?

    If you care so little about these two issues I can understand why you would vote for Trump. But then I think the rest of society is allowed to judge you for caring so little about these two issues.

    It is actually rather ironic Trumpers telling people that they don't understand why they lost, but at the same time Trumpers fail themselves to understand the issue.
    I'm the furthest thing from a trump supporter. I passionately wanted Hilary (or anyone) to win.

    That doesn't stop me thinking that Hillary was an utterly terrible candidate and had the Democrats chosen Sanders he would have won.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    I'm not going around this circle for a fourth time, my OP already addresses my opinion on this. I was answering your question about Corbyn, and Owen Jones lost any right to call himself a journalist in the wake of the Florida attacks. He's an SJW poster child, refusing to blame Islam for anything, shouting Islamophobia when challenged and having other journalists who disagree with him disinvited from even talking about it.
    He didn't refuse to blame Islam. He was annoyed that the presenters refused to accept that it was predominantly a homophobic attack.


    If the same happened in a synagogue or black church no one would deny that it was primarily antisemitic or racist yet the presenters argued that the Orlando attacks wasn't primarily homophobic.

    He absolutely criticised Islam. I am not sure how that makes him a SJW.

    The only SJW are the centre left moderates like Clinton and Jess Phillips who pretty much accuse anyone who didn't vote for her of being sexist.

    You just done listen do you? The like or Jones have been saying for years that if the left do not stand up for working people and offer an alternative then the far right will.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm the furthest thing from a trump supporter. I passionately wanted Hilary (or anyone) to win.

    That doesn't stop me thinking that Hillary was an utterly terrible candidate and had the Democrats chosen Sanders he would have won.
    Suppose she were a man and had run 30 years ago. I guarantee you she would not have been seen in such a bad light.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    He absolutely criticised Islam. I am not sure how that makes him a SJW.
    Haven't you noticed? Pepetarians call everyone who speaks out for social equality and progressiveness a SJW regardless of whether they are right or wrong about a certain issue. Ironically they also call it the "regressive left". They try to pigeonhole people into categories that fit their (narrow) world view. And everyone who is not of their opinion is (aggressively) ridiculed.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Suppose she were a man and had run 30 years ago. I guarantee you she would not have been seen in such a bad light.
    How can you possibly use 30 years ago as a valid comparison. That's like saying Woodrow Wilson wouldn't have won if he stood now. Well obviously ****ing not, because it's a totally different political landscape. People weren't pissed off at the establishment, represented by Hillary, 30 years ago.
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    (Original post by DziNe)
    How can you possibly use 30 years ago as a valid comparison. That's like saying Woodrow Wilson wouldn't have won if he stood now. Well obviously ****ing not, because it's a totally different political landscape. People weren't pissed off at the establishment, represented by Hillary, 30 years ago.
    My point exactly, what she has supposedly done, is normal politics and many before it have done it. Only difference is there is "evidence" (Wikileaks) and Trump's slander campaign.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    It's true though, politicians have tried to shame people who have the 'wrong' views into voting the other way.

    This is why the opinion/exit polls were so vastly wrong, people were reluctant to show their true allegiances in public but no such reluctance at the ballot box.
    The problem is precisely about 'blaming and shaming' - there isn't any point in shaming people as it just gets their backs up, or causes them to pretend. This is true of race in this country, which did not get 'resolved', but rather 'buried' - people got used to pretending they weren't racist, or that their particular brand of activity was not racism. They got defensive about something that they aren't to blame for. We are all brought up in a post-imperialist, white racist culture, which is saturated with prejudicial views and distorted realities - this makes it impossible for the individual to be the key player in resisting or overcoming racism, it requires societal change and free will, not personal blaming.

    However, this does not mean that we shouldn't be free to call things racist when they clearly are, eg, policies. UKIP for example is racist when it runs deeply racist ads during the referendum campaign and it is racist because it used race as a key tool in winning that. It isn't PC to call their policies racist when they are.

    The Right has skillfully used the annoyance that blaming-sounding interpretations of PC have caused some to be a gateway to reintroducing racism into public language and places. Their game is to make it acceptable once more. This can then be used to divide the working class and to permit hard Right policies to be enacted, such as selling off the NHS to private operators, cutting social care, denying treatment and closing down universities. (All of these things are currently underway.)
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    My point exactly, what she has supposedly done, is normal politics and many before it have done it. Only difference is there is "evidence" (Wikileaks) and Trump's slander campaign.
    No, the difference is that the economic crisis and following recovery has left the poor behind, they've stagnated and that's brought to the forefront the elite in politics who are so out of touch. That's Clinton. She's everything they hate. It's why Sanders would have battered Trump - he'd have every single Clinton voter plus a good proportion of the Trump ones.
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    (Original post by DziNe)
    No, the difference is that the economic crisis and following recovery has left the poor behind, they've stagnated and that's brought to the forefront the elite in politics who are so out of touch. That's Clinton. She's everything they hate. It's why Sanders would have battered Trump - he'd have every single Clinton voter plus a good proportion of the Trump ones.
    Tell me, does Donald pay his low-skilled workers enough?

    Do Americans need more jobs or better paid jobs?
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    I agree. People are getting tired of the browbeating by the media and a liberal establishment that is increasingly detached from Joe public. People don't trust the media anymore, either. All the articles and stories about how awful Trump is had little effect in turning the US population against him, apparently, and not so surprisingly. I think the Trump and Trump supporter-bashing just made more people want to vote for him out of spite.

    The media also fostered over-confidence in the anti-Trump and anti-Brexit populations. They thought victory was a sure thing. They were in a bubble with their John Oliver, their CNN, their social media... All the while a huge number of pissed off, disenfranchised citizens tired of being talked down to, feeling abandoned by the establishment and concerned for the future of their countries, were getting ready to do something the pundits and papers weren't expecting.
 
 
 
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