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    (Original post by leinad2012)
    But that isn't the case, his stats have been consistent over the past 3 seasons (obviously last season is a tough one to judge as he only played 15 games). Combined that's a sample of 63 games, (and 3000 minutes), compared to the sample for Balotelli which you gave which was 900 minutes. You point on sample size is irrelevant when you look at the past 3 seasons.

    edit: in fact this season just gone has been arguably his worst season defensively
    What part of 'defensive statistics mean nothing without context' do you not understand? Team strength, team defensive set up and opposition method of attack determine defensive stats.

    When you're going forward, a team tends to attack through it's best players, your attacking stats (as a team) are self determined - the best players get on the ball more, and provide key passes, shots, goals and dribbles. But when you're defending, your ability to make defensive stats are dependent on your team set up, and where the opposition chooses to attack you. For example, if Oxlade has more clearances or blocks, it may well be due to him being positioned in a certain area at set pieces, whereas Willian may be positioned on the counter - it's not as if Willian would be incapable of blocking a shot when in the wall, or a clearing header at the near post.

    Another example is Willian's undeniable work rate meaning that teams are reluctant to attack down his side, and prefer attacking down the right, down Hazard's side because he's more lax defensively. In this instance, Willian simply doesn't have the opportunity to get tackles and interceptions.

    These are two real life examples I'm giving you to try and explain to you. There's an unlimited number of examples. It has been proven conclusively that defensive stats in attacking players, and as I said, in all players, mean little. Using marginal stats to say Willian < Ox defensively is dumb and invalid.

    End discussion.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    What part of 'defensive statistics mean nothing without context' do you not understand? Team strength, team defensive set up and opposition method of attack determine defensive stats.

    When you're going forward, a team tends to attack through it's best players, your attacking stats (as a team) are self determined - the best players get on the ball more, and provide key passes, shots, goals and dribbles. But when you're defending, your ability to make defensive stats are dependent on your team set up, and where the opposition chooses to attack you. For example, if Oxlade has more clearances or blocks, it may well be due to him being positioned in a certain area at set pieces, whereas Willian may be positioned on the counter - it's not as if Willian would be incapable of blocking a shot when in the wall, or a clearing header at the near post.

    Another example is Willian's undeniable work rate meaning that teams are reluctant to attack down his side, and prefer attacking down the right, down Hazard's side because he's more lax defensively. In this instance, Willian simply doesn't have the opportunity to get tackles and interceptions.

    These are two real life examples I'm giving you to try and explain to you. There's an unlimited number of examples. It has been proven conclusively that defensive stats in attacking players, and as I said, in all players, mean little. Using marginal stats to say Willian < Ox defensively is dumb and invalid.

    End discussion.
    I agree with what saying don't get me wrong, but surely, seeing as Chelsea are by and large a defensive team for most of the season, Willian would have better defensive stats that Chamberlain, no? That isn't the case.

    When you look at going forward, Ox and Willian are in similar positions, neither are the star player going forward. Chamberlain STILL wins in take ons and key passes and chance creation despite his similar role in Arsenals team when on the wing (and when playing centrally, has even less opportunity for take ons and key passes as he plays at CDM).

    Yes stats can be swayed by set pieces, Hazards goal statistics are proof of that for example, but when a player has CONSISTENTLY got similar stats for the past 3 season, you cannot just negate them and say they are meaningless.

    Or should I just in future resort to the "ask pimped which player is better and take his answer as factually 100% correct" instead?

    Anyway I'm not going to bother arguing this any more, the main reason I said that ox would walk into the starting line up was to see if Sheddo would take the bait (although I still do genuinely think Mou would start Ox over Willian in most circumstances if he had both players in his squad). It doesn't matter anyway because I don't think Wenger would be stupid enough to exchange a homegrown 21 year old with heaps of potential and years left on his contract for a 31 year old keeper with 1 year left on his contract.
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    What do you guys think of the new kit? Lool i kinda hate it tbh, really think they screwed up this time
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    (Original post by leinad2012)
    I agree with what saying don't get me wrong, but surely, seeing as Chelsea are by and large a defensive team for most of the season, Willian would have better defensive stats that Chamberlain, no? That isn't the case.

    When you look at going forward, Ox and Willian are in similar positions, neither are the star player going forward. Chamberlain STILL wins in take ons and key passes and chance creation despite his similar role in Arsenals team when on the wing (and when playing centrally, has even less opportunity for take ons and key passes as he plays at CDM).

    Yes stats can be swayed by set pieces, Hazards goal statistics are proof of that for example, but when a player has CONSISTENTLY got similar stats for the past 3 season, you cannot just negate them and say they are meaningless.

    Or should I just in future resort to the "ask pimped which player is better and take his answer as factually 100% correct" instead?

    Anyway I'm not going to bother arguing this any more, the main reason I said that ox would walk into the starting line up was to see if Sheddo would take the bait (although I still do genuinely think Mou would start Ox over Willian in most circumstances if he had both players in his squad). It doesn't matter anyway because I don't think Wenger would be stupid enough to exchange a homegrown 21 year old with heaps of potential and years left on his contract for a 31 year old keeper with 1 year left on his contract.

    inb4 "bait taken hurr durr, so easy to wind up m9" , We're not a defensive team, everyone with a brain knows that is bullshine stirred up by those moronic fanpage/troll football twitter pages which post crap which is then spread like gospel.

    We park the bus, what four or five games a season tops? and even that's against the top teams, even in those Mourinho has the capability to play on the front foot as against City away last February. Last season we would have parked the bus against City away, Arsenal away, United at home, arguably PSG away although I'd say they were just better and pushed us back. We've got the 2nd highest goals this season, 3rd this season. Just because we don't have a defense like a sieve so don't concede many, doesn't mean we're a defensive team.

    If you genuinely believe that he'd regularly start AOC over Willian, then you sir are a bit of a moron.
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    I'd say Willian is the more useful player for Mou, and would indefinitely start over Ox, but that's not say that the gap between them is as huge as some people are making out to be.
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    (Original post by leinad2012)
    I agree with what saying don't get me wrong, but surely, seeing as Chelsea are by and large a defensive team for most of the season, Willian would have better defensive stats that Chamberlain, no? That isn't the case.
    Are Chelsea a defensive team? Debatable. Even if it were true, would it mean that Willian would have better defensive stats? No.
    When you look at going forward, Ox and Willian are in similar positions, neither are the star player going forward. Chamberlain STILL wins in take ons and key passes and chance creation despite his similar role in Arsenals team when on the wing (and when playing centrally, has even less opportunity for take ons and key passes as he plays at CDM).

    Yes stats can be swayed by set pieces, Hazards goal statistics are proof of that for example, but when a player has CONSISTENTLY got similar stats for the past 3 season, you cannot just negate them and say they are meaningless.
    I don't care about attacking stats or your debate with Shed, I was discussing them defensively. The sample size is debatable too, because Ox's stats are often coming off the bench - players with more energy produce better defensive output isn't a groundbreaking assumption to make. But regardless of all that, there is no basis for using the statistics you did, to make the declaration you did.

    Or should I just in future resort to the "ask pimped which player is better and take his answer as factually 100% correct" instead?
    Better than completely misusing stats as you are doing.
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    I just can't comprehend how players like Willian, a established professional, current title winner, creative link man for one of the 4 best teams in the planet, can be compared to a 21 year old that has done nothing of note in the football world, and doesn't make it into his own team (weaker than Willian's), let alone his ****ty national squad. Let Oxlade-Chamberlain do half the things that Willian does for club or country and maybe then you have a debate. Misusing stats doesn't negate any of this. Oxlade Chamberlain is a talented young player with good potential, but ffs come on. I'm not even a huge fan of Willian, he has **** all end product whilst playing for Chelsea.

    Arsenal fans are the most deluded in the world.
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    Lol at this convo, Willian at this moment in time is easily better than Chamberlain.

    Chamberlain half of the time is busy holding onto the ball for too long and losing it making the team susceptible on counter attacks, he's not a goal scorer, his link up play is average for a central player of the top PL level and his decision making in the final third is quite poor too. He's another one of those English type players with bundles of technique and little effectiveness to show for it. Barkleys the other one who falls in this category.

    He'll come good in the future and I'd take him solely because he's English, young and has a lot of scope to improve unlike Willian who's 26. But don't really see him taking Willians place at this moment in time, while I'm unsure of how much Mourinho can develop him/play him when better AMs have come in and out the Chelsea side...

    Willians great at no.10 in our system too, I highly doubt AOC has the quality to rival Willian there. He's not as good a carrier of the ball in the middle third or as good a link up there.
    I do have my problems with him not scoring enough but he's said he's been trying to improve on that regard, but Chamberlain suffers from that exact same problem.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    I just can't comprehend how players like Willian, a established professional, current title winner, creative link man for one of the 4 best teams in the planet, can be compared to a 21 year old that has done nothing of note in the football world, and doesn't make it into his own team (weaker than Willian's), let alone his ****ty national squad. Let Oxlade-Chamberlain do half the things that Willian does for club or country and maybe then you have a debate. Misusing stats doesn't negate any of this. Oxlade Chamberlain is a talented young player with good potential, but ffs come on. I'm not even a huge fan of Willian, he has **** all end product whilst playing for Chelsea.

    Arsenal fans are the most deluded in the world.
    You think Chelsea are the 4th best team? Where would you rank Juventus then?
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    (Original post by jam277)
    You think Chelsea are the 4th best team? Where would you rank Juventus then?
    Dont get ahead of yourself, I was talking about Brazil. He doesn't play as a creative link man for you anyway.
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    I would like to think that France of 2014 would have beat that Brazillian side
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    not a goalscorer they said













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    Ox has the potential to be better than Willian. They're on a different level atm though. Problem with Ox is that I've been waiting to see him realise his potential for a few seasons now but it's just groundhog day with injuries.
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    (Original post by swirly)
    not a goalscorer they said













    3 goals in 1890mins this season.
    2 goals in 686mins last season.
    1 goal in 1315mins 12/13 season
    overall 9 goals in 4705 mins of football for Arsenal.

    Defo not a goalscorer. Maybe a scorer of good goals, but not a goalscorer thats for sure. He will add that to his game but he's not a goalscorer at this moment in time. Not an argument just fact.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Dont get ahead of yourself, I was talking about Brazil. He doesn't play as a creative link man for you anyway.
    I misread what you were saying. Was going to get a little gully that you rated us so highly.
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    I bet Zurich trolls the Chelsea thread like shed does to this one
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    I bet Zurich trolls the Chelsea thread like shed does to this one
    You could look at the Chelsea thread to confirm this rather than writing this clearly rep whoring attention post?
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Dont get ahead of yourself, I was talking about Brazil.
    :rofl: shot down hard


    October 3 is gonna be a good day for us, it's our customary "pick up 3 points at the Emirates" day.
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    (Original post by Depleted)
    :rofl: shot down hard


    October 3 is gonna be a good day for us, it's our customary "pick up 3 points at the Emirates" day.
    Haterz mane.

    Anyway can't wait for our 4 points against United, wanna do another bus job for the lols.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Haterz mane.

    Anyway can't wait for our 4 points against United, wanna do another bus job for the lols.
    Yeah you lot have a great record against us tbf, went through a few rough years when you had **** managers like AVB but with Mourinho and Ancelotti we got murked.
 
 
 
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