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    Sit with those who have sinned and repented for they have the softest of hearts

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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    Not that i'm insinuating anything brother but to call yourself an alim after just 6 years of study is no light matter.

    One of my teachers has many Ijaazas and has been learning for over 13 years in Morocco, madinah, makkah, from nadwis and all over and he dislikes it greatly that anyone even calls him shaykh. It is something you pick up after sitting with individuals who have studied 30 or 40 years (as i'm sure you have) and still call themselves a student of knowledge.

    Brothers at my local masjids that have completed a dars e nizami course and have done further stuides don't call themselves shaykh/alim/maulana/molvi.
    JazakAllah brother my mistake... What I was trying to say was that in three years I would be finished the 6 year dars nizami... I am very well aware that six years doesn't make you a great scholar...I said I will be an Alim... Which I will be.... Inshaallah
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    If God existed eternally, then why did he decide to create the universe only 13.7 billion years ago?

    This is actually a wonderful question, one which philosophers, including medieval Muslim philosophers have pondered on.

    There are a number of things we must consider: How do we define 'time'? Does time itself have a beginning? Does an eternal being have to exist in eternal past time and future time?

    Firstly, there are two ways i believe for an eternal being to exist. One is eternal within time, whereby this being exist infinitely in time - past and present , which presents a lot of philosophical problems.

    The second is to transcend time and space, and exist outside of time and space - which is what we muslims believe in.

    Therefore 'time' itself 'began' when God created it, and there was no 'deliberation' or 'an hour' before time where God began to ponder upon creation.

    So arguing why Allah swt did not create 'sooner' is irrelevant - there was no 'sooner'. If you believe this you then limit Allah swt to time and sequential events, and ascribe partners to him - namely time and Allah swt co-eternally existing in my view.


    I cite the following Hadith:

    He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [I will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. .....al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

    The hadith states that God was there before a 'there' and in being before 'how'. Therefore there are no sequential events leading to God, nor are there even concepts of mechanisms. 'There' and 'How' are concepts created by God.

    This is why Allah swt cannot move. If he moves from point x to point y, he is acting within time. It totally wreaks philosophical havoc into proving his existence.

    God also does not 'exist' in space or a location with coordinates, therefore can not 'move'.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    If God existed eternally, then why did he decide to create the universe only 13.7 billion years ago?

    This is actually a wonderful question, one which philosophers, including medieval Muslim philosophers have pondered on.

    There are a number of things we must consider: How do we define 'time'? Does time itself have a beginning? Does an eternal being have to exist in eternal past time and future time?

    Firstly, there are two ways i believe for an eternal being to exist. One is eternal within time, whereby this being exist infinitely in time - past and present , which presents a lot of philosophical problems.

    The second is to transcend time and space, and exist outside of time and space - which is what we muslims believe in.

    Therefore 'time' itself 'began' when God created it, and there was no 'deliberation' or 'an hour' before time where God began to ponder upon creation.


    I cite the following Hadith:

    He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [I will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. .....al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

    The hadith states that God was there before a 'there' and in being before 'how'. Therefore there are no sequential events leading to God, nor are there even concepts of mechanisms. 'There' and 'How' are concepts created by God.

    This is why Allah swt cannot move. If he moves from point x to point y, he is acting within time. It totally wreaks philosophical havoc into proving his existence.

    God also does not 'exist' in space or a location with coordinates, therefore can not 'move'.
    What do you mean he doesnt move?

    I dont know if this is correct, but i read somewhere that allah moves to the lower heavens every day or something

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    If God existed eternally, then why did he decide to create the universe only 13.7 billion years ago?

    This is actually a wonderful question, one which philosophers, including medieval Muslim philosophers have pondered on.

    There are a number of things we must consider: How do we define 'time'? Does time itself have a beginning? Does an eternal being have to exist in eternal past time and future time?

    Firstly, there are two ways i believe for an eternal being to exist. One is eternal within time, whereby this being exist infinitely in time - past and present , which presents a lot of philosophical problems.

    The second is to transcend time and space, and exist outside of time and space - which is what we muslims believe in.

    Therefore 'time' itself 'began' when God created it, and there was no 'deliberation' or 'an hour' before time where God began to ponder upon creation.


    I cite the following Hadith:

    He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [I will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. .....al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

    The hadith states that God was there before a 'there' and in being before 'how'. Therefore there are no sequential events leading to God, nor are there even concepts of mechanisms. 'There' and 'How' are concepts created by God.

    This is why Allah swt cannot move. If he moves from point x to point y, he is acting within time. It totally wreaks philosophical havoc into proving his existence.

    God also does not 'exist' in space or a location with coordinates, therefore can not 'move'.
    Allah can't do something as simple as move? Doesn't this affect his omnipotence?
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    City's synagogue council appoints first Muslim member as 'strikingly close' relations between two faiths deepen further

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...eepen_further/
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    (Original post by Positron.)
    What do you mean he doesnt move?

    I dont know if this is correct, but i read somewhere that allah moves to the lower heavens every day or something

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    Peace be with you.

    There is a division between sunni's and shia's about this. I do not want to for a minute even discuss the sunni shia differences - i want us to merely use logic.

    So lets forget we are muslims for a moment. Even some christians and deists believe God can not move.

    You see, for something to 'move' it needs to act within time - it is limited by time. How can Allah swt be limited by time, when he himself created time?

    Time, space, etc are all creations by Allah swt, he can not exist within them - he exists outside of them.

    To say Allah swt descends means you give him two coordinates X and Y. He goes from X and comes to Y. This means Allah swt before descending is in place X - which limits Allah swt to one location. Allah swt is the creator of space, of laws, of limitations , he himself is free of all of these.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Allah can't do something as simple as move? Doesn't this affect his omnipotence?
    Peace be with you*

    Not at all.

    You see, to 'move' you need to be confined within space, and there needs to be a duration of 'time' whereby you go from place X to place Y. Therefore the 'act' of 'moving' assumes you are a confined limited being, who is limited in spacial, and subject to time.

    Therefore God does not need to 'move' as he isn't in time or space, and has power over all things, and exists outside of time and created it, so is not limited and subject to what he created.

    When we say God can do 'anything' he wills, we mean anything other than limiting himself.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Allah can't do something as simple as move? Doesn't this affect his omnipotence?
    Are you bored, dear Plantagenet? You know that there are certain things that do not befit God's majesty, such as human/animal acts. One of them being 'moving'.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Peace be with you.

    There is a division between sunni's and shia's about this. I do not want to for a minute even discuss the sunni shia differences - i want us to merely use logic.

    So lets forget we are muslims for a moment. Even some christians and deists believe God can not move.

    You see, for something to 'move' it needs to act within time - it is limited by time. How can Allah swt be limited by time, when he himself created time?

    Time, space, etc are all creations by Allah swt, he can not exist within them - he exists outside of them.

    To say Allah swt descends means you give him two coordinates X and Y. He goes from X and comes to Y. This means Allah swt before descending is in place X - which limits Allah swt to one location. Allah swt is the creator of space, of laws, of limitations , he himself is free of all of these.
    Wa 'alaikum, brother

    This does make sense. But dont you believe that allah resides in heaven?

    btw, do you reject all ahadith which are quoted in this soc?
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Actually, the idea that God never acts in time has various metaphysical issues (i.e. interaction with creation, issuing moral commands, etc). This is why theists like William Lane Craig (the main defender of the kalam argument) and Richard Swinburne believe that although God is timeless sans creation, He became temporal with the creation of the universe.
    You could also argue that if God created or governed the evolution of creation, he acted within time.

    When i say God is not subject to time, i am referring to his essence - he created time itself.

    God has power over whatever occurs within the 'time' he created, but he himself is not subjected to time.

    We only perceive it to be 'time' because we are subjected to it.

    God isn't seeing the universe as 2015. Nor as 1400, nor as the singularity. Past, present, and future are not things God is limited to or subjected to.

    However, he has created time, and created these limitations, and while himself not constrained to these limitations, can cause whatever he wills within these limitations, so we - temporal beings- experience them within the scope of our limitations.

    And God knows best.
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    (Original post by Positron.)
    Wa 'alaykum, brother

    This does make sense. But dont you believe that allah resides in heaven?

    btw, do you reject all ahadith which are quoted in this soc?
    I do not believe that. Allah swt is the one who created everything - so if he created 'heaven' then where was he before heaven? Allah swt can not be limited , nor contained, because these are properties of creation.

    Allah swt existed before there was a 'where'.

    He is not everywhere, nor is he in heaven, he is not closer to anyone thing relative to another, nor is he further from one thing than another.
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    Allah can move. He descends to the lowest heaven during the last part of the night in a way that befits his majesty.

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    Salam Alaikum WaRahmatullah.

    Bringing this topic again because I'm stubborn like that.
    Is it okay for a non mahram to communicate with a female under the justification of dawah? And by communicate I don't mean a one hour talk, rather an everyday whatsapp or TSR convo. On that note, is it even okay to have a male or female friend? I'm pretty sure it's not; yet I'm tired of being called 'extreme' or too 'serious' and 'negative' because I say it is. Please share your thoughts and daleel, I will be very grateful.

    Salam.

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I do not believe that. Allah swt is the one who created everything - so if he created 'heaven' then where was he before heaven? Allah swt can not be limited , nor contained, because these are properties of creation.

    Allah swt existed before there was a 'where'.

    He is not everywhere, nor is he in heaven, he is not closer to anyone thing relative to another, nor is he further from one thing than another.
    ok, cool. So that means you also believe that heaven is not "outside" of space and time i.e. paradise is somewhere in this universe? :zomg:
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    This is needless complication of the Simple Aqeedah of ahl al sunnah.
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    (Original post by Positron.)
    ok, cool. So that means you also believe that heaven is not "outside" of space and time i.e. paradise is somewhere in this universe? :zomg:
    Paradise might not be in the universe , it might be in an entirely different place, but we know within paradise, we will be beings which will be able to move. So whatever dimension or wherever the universe is, we will be contained within that finite place, within coordinates, within a location.

    Therefore even if paradise exists else-where within the creations of God, whatever that exists in it will be limited.

    God himself created the 'seven' heavens, so can therefore not exist 'in the seven' heavens, as you can argue 'where' did he exist before that? The question of 'where' does not apply to God because he himself created the notion of 'where'.

    If God moves from x to y, unless he does it instantaneously, which means he is in both places at the same time, he is taking time x to move distance y and z. He is confined to coordinates and limited by his essence to movement.
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    *cough* No *cough* debating
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    (Original post by beautifulxxx)
    Salam Alaikum WaRahmatullah.

    Bringing this topic again because I'm stubborn like that.
    Is it okay for a non mahram to communicate with a female under the justification of dawah? And by communicate I don't mean a one hour talk, rather an everyday whatsapp or TSR convo. On that note, is it even okay to have a male or female friend? I'm pretty sure it's not; yet I'm tired of being called 'extreme' or too 'serious' and 'negative' because I say it is. Please share your thoughts and daleel, I will be very grateful.

    Salam.

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    Waalaikumussalam warahmatullahi wabarakatu sister

    Well... I would love to help you, but I don't know the answer to that.

    I watched this video just now, what a coincidence. Maybe it can help you



    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAQFwPiNX9U
 
 
 
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