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    (Original post by jibberish)
    Because the expectation with a manager appointed at a club like Madrid is to win trophies and achieve success..the clubs ambition. Its not the same thing that has happened at Chelsea- Di Matteo left because he didn't meet the expectation of the OWNER. Two different things.

    Selling t-shirts is not self-sustainsable ffs. Self-sustainable means developing a youth academy and re-investing profits back into the club.
    Nonsense, Heynckes won the champions league and got sacked, del bosque won the champions league and got sacked for not fitting with the clubs imaged, capello got sacked because he played defensive football and he won the league every season he managed madrid. So clearly successful managers. You're beating around the bush because you know I'm right. They were successful managers and didn't fit the OWNER's image.


    :facepalm: it's like talking to a brick wall here. No it's not the only thing, but I'm saying that it's an example of how we can create more funds, for us to reinvest back into the club. We can invest in the youth academy too if we have money too. Tbh I'm growing tired of this conversation so if you want we can agree to disagree.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Nonsense, Heynckes won the champions league and got sacked, del bosque won the champions league and got sacked for not fitting with the clubs imaged, capello got sacked because he played defensive football and he won the league every season he managed madrid. So clearly successful managers. You're beating around the bush because you know I'm right. They were successful managers and didn't fit the OWNER's image.


    :facepalm: it's like talking to a brick wall here. No it's not the only thing, but I'm saying that it's an example of how we can create more funds, for us to reinvest back into the club. We can invest in the youth academy too if we have money too. Tbh I'm growing tired of this conversation so if you want we can agree to disagree.
    You might as well speak to a brick wall now cause ill never get your point of view. Not yet seen an example of self-sustaining behaviour from your club but ill take your word for it and wish the club the best success in the future.
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    (Original post by jibberish)
    Selling t-shirts is not self-sustainsable ffs. Self-sustainable means developing a youth academy and re-investing profits back into the club.
    Our youth system over the past few years has actually improved quite a lot. 2 FA youth cup trophies and runners-up in the last 4 years. The problem is the board who are suffocating the progress of our academy graduates. Admittedly the squad is of such a high quality it's very hard for youngsters to break through, but they're not even being given a peripheral role which is the very starting point for integration. McEachran and Kakuta were hyped up a season or two ago and they're now almost permanently on-loan. Just hope the same won't happen to players like Chalobah and Feruz who could genuinely break into the senior squad.

    I said before that I hope whoever's in charge next will actually perpetuate the development of our young players from the academy and those sent out on loan, because we have a lot of unrecognised talent here that's being neglected by the board. If this can be done we won't have to fork out for £20m signings each time, e.g. buying Oscar when we could have started using Piazon.
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    (Original post by Multitalented me)
    Ok so say us & City didn't have wealthy owners, do you just think you guys & Utd would dominate the PL then? Would other teams like us/Liverpool/Everton/Spurs ever break through?
    They wouldn't have broken through immediately but there would be 2 champions league spots up for grabs every season for the best of the rest. It would have given smaller clubs a chance to build on success earned and grow from that using the winning money to invest back into the team. Chelsea initially and now Man City have taken that away from the premiership by buying those 2 remaining spots instead of earning them. Champions league football doesn't solve all financial problems but it gives clubs an opportunity to grow by adding extra income and extra clout when looking to buy a better class of player.
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    (Original post by jibberish)
    You might as well speak to a brick wall now cause ill never get your point of view. Not yet seen an example of self-sustaining behaviour from your club but ill take your word for it and wish the club the best success in the future.
    Fair enough, we'll see in the future. I'm just saying with how real madrid act that calling us a small club for adopting the same approach would classify them as a small club too.

    We have got some good youth come in the past year or two. Bertrand springs to mind, maybe chalobah. But to be self sustainable you have to see it over a period of time.
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    (Original post by KissMyArsene)
    They wouldn't have broken through immediately but there would be 2 champions league spots up for grabs every season for the best of the rest. It would have given smaller clubs a chance to build on success earned and grow from that using the winning money to invest back into the team. Chelsea initially and now Man City have taken that away from the premiership by buying those 2 remaining spots instead of earning them. Champions league football doesn't solve all financial problems but it gives clubs an opportunity to grow by adding extra income and extra clout when looking to buy a better class of player.
    You say that. But look at la liga and the german league. They're one/2 sided as **** and there's no buying clubs there, bayern just buy off their rivals best players e.g. so really it would have just stayed as a status quo, at most liverpool could have stayed in the top 4 but that's really it.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Fair enough, we'll see in the future. I'm just saying with how real madrid act that calling us a small club for adopting the same approach would classify them as a small club too.

    We have got some good youth come in the past year or two. Bertrand springs to mind, maybe chalobah. But to be self sustainable you have to see it over a period of time.
    The both clubs are fundamentally different. Real Madrid has a president appointed by the board who makes decisions on managers etc. Chelsea on the other hand is single handedly controlled by an owner and although the both clubs may have similar objectives and the same way of managing in terms of who is the manager every season, they are not the same! Anyway I'm really not sure I should continue so will leave you with that.
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    (Original post by jibberish)
    The both clubs are fundamentally different. Real Madrid has a president appointed by the board who makes decisions on managers etc. Chelsea on the other hand is single handedly controlled by an owner and although the both clubs may have similar objectives and the same way of managing in terms of who is the manager every season, they are not the same! Anyway I'm really not sure I should continue so will leave you with that.
    Fair enough. I've got tests to revise for. :sigh:
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Fair enough. I've got tests to revise for. :sigh:
    Haha Ive got lot of work too but this was a good break from revision Good luck with your tests
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    (Original post by jam277)
    You say that. But look at la liga and the german league. They're one/2 sided as **** and there's no buying clubs there, bayern just buy off their rivals best players e.g. so really it would have just stayed as a status quo, at most liverpool could have stayed in the top 4 but that's really it.
    Liverpool, Spurs and other clubs have kept up a respectable pace with us over the previous decade and tbh without Chelsea or City being bought it wouldn't have been the Man Utd/Arsenal show, it would have been the Man Utd show followed by everyone else battling for those other 3 champions league spots.

    Believe it or not I use to really like Chelsea. When Gazza went to Lazio C4 started showing Italian football every Sunday and I loved it. Then Zola was suddenly at Chelsea which was badass, then Vialli arrived whose personality reminded me of Ian Wright. (Ian Wright's awesome personality was the reason I started supporting Arsenal)

    But then Abramovich arrived...

    I understand you want to defend your club and you're always going to get **** from non-Chelsea supporters whether it's on a forum or in the real world, that's just something you'll have to accept and deal with but you come from the post-Abramovich era. Buying clubs is considered part of the game now and because of that, your arguments are valid. But I'm pre-Abramovich and the day that Russian prick bought your club was a sad day for the premiership.
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    (Original post by KissMyArsene)
    Liverpool, Spurs and other clubs have kept up a respectable pace with us over the previous decade and tbh without Chelsea or City being bought it wouldn't have been the Man Utd/Arsenal show, it would have been the Man Utd show followed by everyone else battling for those other 3 champions league spots.

    Believe it or not I use to really like Chelsea. When Gazza went to Lazio C4 started showing Italian football every Sunday and I loved it. Then Zola was suddenly at Chelsea which was badass, then Vialli arrived whose personality reminded me of Ian Wright. (Ian Wright's awesome personality was the reason I started supporting Arsenal)

    But then Abramovich arrived...

    I understand you want to defend your club and you're always going to get **** from non-Chelsea supporters whether it's on a forum or in the real world, that's just something you'll have to accept and deal with but you come from the post-Abramovich era. Buying clubs is considered part of the game now and because of that, your arguments are valid. But I'm pre-Abramovich and the day that Russian prick bought your club was a sad day for the premiership.
    I agree with all that you say. If we kept our club and city hadn't been taken over this would have turned into the bundesliga(even under fergie it looked like he had a consistent challenger for a few seasons) be it blackburn/newcastle/arsenal/chelsea/city but that was never the case in the bundesliga it was either bayern win a trophy or have a shocking season. Seeing that happen in the premier league is as horrible as a club being bought out imo. This season was possibly the worst PL season I've ever watched and I could not bare watching that happen from 04-13(when you started your project so would be less competitive)

    I was only a 6 year old at the days of zola, so while I've got up to scratch in realising how great a player zola was, same for the likes of gullit/vialli/desailly and more I can get where you're coming from we were definitely more likeable then although we had a similar financial situation to that of atletico madrid(only that we didn't sell our key players for mega bucks when they're at their most viable)
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    (Original post by jam277)
    I agree with all that you say. If we kept our club and city hadn't been taken over this would have turned into the bundesliga(even under fergie it looked like he had a consistent challenger for a few seasons) be it blackburn/newcastle/arsenal/chelsea/city but that was never the case in the bundesliga it was either bayern win a trophy or have a shocking season. Seeing that happen in the premier league is as horrible as a club being bought out imo. This season was possibly the worst PL season I've ever watched and I could not bare watching that happen from 04-13(when you started your project so would be less competitive)

    I was only a 6 year old at the days of zola, so while I've got up to scratch in realising how great a player zola was, same for the likes of gullit/vialli/desailly and more I can get where you're coming from we were definitely more likeable then although we had a similar financial situation to that of atletico madrid(only that we didn't sell our key players for mega bucks when they're at their most viable)
    Indeed the PL would be crappy to watch with Man Utd at the top and a drop to the rest but without strong challenges from Chelsea/Man City I don't think Man Utd would have needed to improve as much as they have so it wouldn't have necessarily been a land slide victory year after year. Not to mention that great managers like Mourinho and Pellegrini have shown that glory can be won without huge financial backing. There's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes when we're talking about what the premiership might have become without the billionaires but the fact is none of us can know for sure except that Ferguson would have ruled the roost no matter what was thrown at him.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Nonsense, Heynckes won the champions league and got sacked, del bosque won the champions league and got sacked for not fitting with the clubs imaged, capello got sacked because he played defensive football and he won the league every season he managed madrid. So clearly successful managers. You're beating around the bush because you know I'm right. They were successful managers and didn't fit the OWNER's image.


    :facepalm: it's like talking to a brick wall here. No it's not the only thing, but I'm saying that it's an example of how we can create more funds, for us to reinvest back into the club. We can invest in the youth academy too if we have money too. Tbh I'm growing tired of this conversation so if you want we can agree to disagree.
    Jesus, why you so butthurt? Your constant need to reply to every comment makes you seem a bit desperate. What do you expect in an Arsenal thread. You don't expect them to go "oo look at Chelsea, they bring in top players and win trophies every season. I wish Arsenal were like that..." If you want a better well rounded convo, go to reddit or something.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    I've said many a time that our club may not be the most morally correct club in how we do our business. I know people don't like me going on about FM but I don't even like playing that way in a computer game.

    It doesn't mean that you can discredit us for our victories. Considering that arsenal could do the same thing if they wanted to, it's an even ball game but they choose to be more moral than our club. As long as what we do is within the rules of the game, you cannot discredit our success. If it's the case that we spent 90 mins doing leg breaker challenges and payed the ref so we don't get carded then yeah fair enough but we win within the rules of the game.
    Its not really about morality, its about self sustainability and looking to the future.
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    (Original post by TheEssence)
    Its not really about morality, its about self sustainability and looking to the future.
    Have you seen this? It's the most informative site I've seen regarding the finance of clubs.
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    Hi im new to the TSR, as you probably could tell im an arsenal fan and let the banter begin!
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    (Original post by mrdoovde1)
    Jesus, why you so butthurt? Your constant need to reply to every comment makes you seem a bit desperate. What do you expect in an Arsenal thread. You don't expect them to go "oo look at Chelsea, they bring in top players and win trophies every season. I wish Arsenal were like that..." If you want a better well rounded convo, go to reddit or something.
    Not really, just thought you'd have respect for a fellow club than to be bitter because we won a trophy. It just so happens that you all decide to go sick on chelsea the day we win the europa league. That's bitter as hell mate. Personally I wouldn't begrudge you guys if you won a trophy I'd be happy to see you guys win it, it's pathetic that almost every week you have to say, chelsea are ****, don't deserve this, they destroyed football like are you all 12 year olds or something?

    (Original post by TheEssence)
    Its not really about morality, its about self sustainability and looking to the future.
    Check who I quoted. I replied to someone talking about ethics of how our club is successful, hence I have the right to talk about morality. With the self sustainability, I explained that with more trophies, a higher fanbase we'd be more sustainable. Eventually we'll have to quit this model of spending with FFP anyway.
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    (Original post by KissMyArsene)
    Indeed the PL would be crappy to watch with Man Utd at the top and a drop to the rest but without strong challenges from Chelsea/Man City I don't think Man Utd would have needed to improve as much as they have so it wouldn't have necessarily been a land slide victory year after year. Not to mention that great managers like Mourinho and Pellegrini have shown that glory can be won without huge financial backing. There's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes when we're talking about what the premiership might have become without the billionaires but the fact is none of us can know for sure except that Ferguson would have ruled the roost no matter what was thrown at him.
    One thing for sure, the prem would not be as strong as it is today or between 05-09. Even arsenal with their best ever squad only got to a CL semi final and while unlucky in the final that was it for them. United probably wouldn't have had to improve so much to win the league so I don't think they'd have done well in europe.

    Take it this way, the years under abramovich saw the premier league change from the 3rd best league in the world to the best league in the world, where many english clubs were semi finalists, you can't say that's a coincidence, also the fact even besides losing the CL final we were still ranked as the best team in the world. I think we were good for strengthening the whole premier league. It's not the same case as in germany where bayern have huge revenue and nobody comes close so have to hope for a poor season from them.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    One thing for sure, the prem would not be as strong as it is today or between 05-09. Even arsenal with their best ever squad only got to a CL semi final and while unlucky in the final that was it for them. United probably wouldn't have had to improve so much to win the league so I don't think they'd have done well in europe.

    Take it this way, the years under abramovich saw the premier league change from the 3rd best league in the world to the best league in the world, where many english clubs were semi finalists, you can't say that's a coincidence, also the fact even besides losing the CL final we were still ranked as the best team in the world. I think we were good for strengthening the whole premier league. It's not the same case as in germany where bayern have huge revenue and nobody comes close so have to hope for a poor season from them.
    Just give it a break mate. How can you say that Abramovich was good for the PL and that it strengthened the league? It was thanks to that Russian prick that we see footballers being paid the wages in a week that average employees don't get paid in a year. Transfer prices have been hiked up so much as well because Abramovich gets what he wants which often results in crazy bidding wars. United wouldn't have lasted top in the league and nor would Arsenal as you claim and it sure as hell wouldn't have been a 2 horse race as you keep insisting it would have been. Its called natural progression and teams would have come up with more TV revenues and increasing fan base- Everton is a case in point. Living within their means
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    (Original post by jibberish)
    Just give it a break mate. How can you say that Abramovich was good for the PL and that it strengthened the league? It was thanks to that Russian prick that we see footballers being paid the wages in a week that average employees don't get paid in a year. Transfer prices have been hiked up so much as well because Abramovich gets what he wants which often results in crazy bidding wars. United wouldn't have lasted top in the league and nor would Arsenal as you claim and it sure as hell wouldn't have been a 2 horse race as you keep insisting it would have been. Its called natural progression and teams would have come up with more TV revenues and increasing fan base- Everton is a case in point. Living within their means
    And where are everton? Under most clubs within the top 4, are no where near as strong as arsenal and man united, it's ridiculous to say that they would be there up with you guys. And anyway united would have probably dominated the way bayern munich do in germany.

    Didn't read the whole thing as well. Has the league been strengthened? The league in 05-09 was the best it's ever been in europe with a finalist in each year. So therefore the league has been strengthened. But hey don't read the whole thing and nitpick a thing I said because it sounded slightly controversial.
 
 
 
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