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    (Original post by broscience123)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1s3Qt-Tm5I
    Note: Turn Closed Captions on for subtitles.

    Pretty amusing video. His 'arguments' also sound all too familiar with the hasbara posted on TSR. What I would like to know is, what is the general view of the continued illegal expansion of Settlements in the West Bank, in addition to the gross misconduct which is common amongst Settlers.

    I would particular like to hear from the Pro-Israel members of this forum. Unfortunately, anytime anything settler-related is brought up I usually hear a totally unrelated response usually blaming Hamas or something, so please stick to the topic
    NO.
    Only palestinians are the violent ones who are filled with hate, no one in israel has hate for anyone else.
    Have you not heard? Israel is life israel is peace.
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    (Original post by Native European)
    Why can't Palestinian's largely being Muslims move to another country? NOT EUROPE. We're sick to death of these Muslims coming here when nobody wants them in our lands. Tolerance is for the weak only the strong survive. Israel should just get it over with and wipe every last one of them out.
    (Original post by zazalla.)
    The jooz need to be wiped out, either gassed or better radioactively poisoned, that way all of Palestine from the river to the sea, can be liberated from joo-wish filth that stole land and property, which the Palestinians to this day hold titles and deeds to. Gas the jooz, burn the jooz, polonium 210 the jooz.
    You two are an excellent match for each other.
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    The Israeli embassy in Ireland is desperate, pathetic and hysterical at the international condemnation of the massacre Israel is perpetrating:



    This is indeed the Israeli embassy in Ireland's Twitter account; it's verified.
    Israel is rapidly descending into an appalling joke of a country.
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    Israel's scummy soldiers are shelling yet another hospital in Gaza now. Beit Hanoun hospital has been under Israeli fire for the past 5 hours. 61 people, including patients, doctors, and international aid workers, are trapped inside.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Well, there would be no need for the Palestinians to elect "extremist Islamic governments" if the Israeli's were actually wanting to sit down and broker a peace deal.

    I mean, look at Abbas and his sorry party in the WB. He accepted Israel, did whatever was asked of him, allowed Israeli settlers onto Palestinian land and Israel won't negotiate with him.

    Is it any wonder people elect an "extremist government" if the current government does not give them what they want?
    That depends on one's goal. If the goal is to live a safe, productive life in peace the optimum solution would be for the Palestinians to surrender entirely to Israel in exchange for Israeli citizenship. Eternal war only makes sense if the goal is to conquer land, and the reason they want to do that is Islamic chauvinism: they refuse to recognise Israel or its control of Jerusalem because they regard that land as rightfully muslim. I see no reason to regard satisfying the irredentist ambitions of chauvinistic Islam as desirable. I can understand why people indoctrinated from an early age in Islam would do so, but I find their agnostic western apologists much more perplexing.
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    Truly sickening scenes in 'Beit Hanun' in Gaza: Homes and a mosque destroyed, dead bodies being pulled out of the rubble.

    Also, in the West Bank: 13 Palestinians have been killed, including 2 by illegal settlers.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That depends on one's goal. If the goal is to live a safe, productive life in peace the optimum solution would be for the Palestinians to surrender entirely to Israel in exchange for Israeli citizenship.
    What an insensitive, myopic approach to the problem. The Arabs are probably the most proud people of the earth; what you are suggesting is that they submit unconditionally to the very people who have wronged them dearly for the past sixty years, and continue to do so up to this very day.
    (Original post by Observatory)
    Eternal war only makes sense if the goal is to conquer land, and the reason they want to do that is Islamic chauvinism:
    Double standards. You don't seem to be very angry about the fact that it is Israel that seeks to conquer land; in fact, if it's land grabbing that bothers you, it's Israel you should be turning your attentions to, not the Palestinians. You can hardly say that the Palestinians seek to 'conquer' land; the Palestinians seek only to retrieve what was once theirs, and which was taken from them unlawfully and immorally.
    (Original post by Observatory)
    they refuse to recognise Israel or its control of Jerusalem
    Why on earth should they? It used to be their own until it was obscenely snatched from them. Who in his senses would acknowledge a thief's ownership of stolen goods?
    (Original post by Observatory)
    because they regard that land as rightfully muslim.
    No. That is simply untrue. You Islamophobes take an offensively simplistic view of anything involving Muslims being wronged.
    This isn't a question of Islam versus Judaism. It's Palestinians against Zionists; today, you can't rightly say it's an issue of Arabs against Zionists, as Arabs seem to be hand-in-hand with the Zionists these days.
    (Original post by Observatory)
    I see no reason to regard satisfying the irredentist ambitions of chauvinistic Islam as desirable.
    But you seem to see plenty to coddle the Zionist Jews and their blatantly chauvinistic ambitions. Either that or you choose to ignore them altogether.
    (Original post by Observatory)
    I can understand why people indoctrinated from an early age in Islam would do so, but I find their agnostic western apologists much more perplexing.
    Perhaps because the 'agnostic western apologists' are not so Islamophobic, unlike yourself, to be blinded by the plain truth, and to realise, unlike yourself, that it isn't a question of Islam and its ambitions, but something entirely separate.
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    What an insensitive, myopic approach to the problem. The Arabs are probably the most proud people of the earth; what you are suggesting is that they submit unconditionally to the very people who have wronged them dearly for the past sixty years, and continue to do so up to this very day.
    The Germans were a pretty proud people once, but they submitted unconditionally, and I have subsequently found living in their country to be a very pleasant experience. I doubt I could say the same of Gaza or the West Bank.

    Double standards. You don't seem to be very angry about the fact that it is Israel that seeks to conquer land; in fact, if it's land grabbing that bothers you, it's Israel you should be turning your attentions to, not the Palestinians. You can hardly say that the Palestinians seek to 'conquer' land; the Palestinians seek only to retrieve what was once theirs, and which was taken from them unlawfully and immorally.
    Both claim that their land demands are just, but I have made no comment on that, and being outside the blood feud do not really care. Israel is an industrial state with nuclear weapons and a high standard of living; it's incumbent on the Palestinians to respond to that, not as a matter of justice, but just practical reality.

    Perhaps because the 'agnostic western apologists' are not so Islamophobic, unlike yourself, to be blinded by the plain truth, and to realise, unlike yourself, that it isn't a question of Islam and its ambitions, but something entirely separate.
    For some it was also Arab national-socialism, and for others, perhaps communism. But those strands have been dying on their feet for something like two decades now.
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    SEVENTY SIX bodies have been pulled out of the rubble so far. The death toll surpasses 1,000.

    http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Gaza_Blog/122605095
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    Perspective on the deadly Israeli operations carried out periodically in Gaza
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    So Israel has admitted that Hamas did not kidnap those 3 illegal settlers after all thus nullifying completely their justification for this latest round of mass murder.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Both claim that their land demands are just, but I have made no comment on that, and being outside the blood feud do not really care. Israel is an industrial state with nuclear weapons and a high standard of living; it's incumbent on the Palestinians to respond to that, not as a matter of justice, but just practical reality.
    You want subversion of the Palestinian people, and that is not going to happen. As I have already pointed out to you, the Arabs are a singularly proud people, and they would never allow that on themselves, unless there were to be a cruel twist of events in the future that would compel them to do so. As it is the Arab Israelis are treated as outsiders and with abounding contempt; it would be better for the Palestinians to leave their homes altogether and immigrate to Europe, for instance, rather than do what you so insensitively and illiterately suggest. Perhaps you should consider calling on the Israelis to let go their stranglehold on Palestinian land and indeed Palestinian everything; there is nothing to suggest that Palestine can not be as prosperous in modern terms as Israel and its Arab neighbours currently are, if only Israel were to give them a chance.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    The Germans were a pretty proud people once, but they submitted unconditionally, and I have subsequently found living in their country to be a very pleasant experience. I doubt I could say the same of Gaza or the West Bank.


    Both claim that their land demands are just, but I have made no comment on that, and being outside the blood feud do not really care. Israel is an industrial state with nuclear weapons and a high standard of living; it's incumbent on the Palestinians to respond to that, not as a matter of justice, but just practical reality.


    For some it was also Arab national-socialism, and for others, perhaps communism. But those strands have been dying on their feet for something like two decades now.
    There is only land demand which is just and it is not the one based on the rantings of a 3,000 year old book which tells foreigners and immigrants that a piece of land far away from where they were born is their God given right.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    So Israel has admitted that Hamas did not kidnap those 3 illegal settlers after all thus nullifying completely their justification for this latest round of mass murder.
    The Israeli government has so much blood on its hands, I wonder at their confounded complacency at the end of the day. Not only did they use this null incentive to orchestrate the current bloodbath in Gaza, they also arrested hundreds of Palestinians and killed plenty and basically raised merry hell for the entirely innocent Palestinian populace in their feigned search for those 3 settlers. Brutes.
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    You want subversion of the Palestinian people, and that is not going to happen. As I have already pointed out to you, the Arabs are a singularly proud people, and they would never allow that on themselves, unless there were to be a cruel twist of events in the future that would compel them to do so.
    Then they will not have a, "safe, productive life in peace". Which is ok, but having made that decision would they kindly stop whining about how they are being oppressed, just as the Germans have stopped whining about Alsace-Lorraine, Ostpreussen, and the Jews controlling the White House (note the astounding similarity between the two cases?).

    As it is the Arab Israelis are treated as outsiders and with abounding contempt; it would be better for the Palestinians to leave their homes altogether and immigrate to Europe, for instance
    Better for whom? I do grant that it would have been better to have put Israel in Wyoming, since unlike Palestine and Europe, they have similar institutions and desire a similar way of life already. But it's there now, so we've got to live with it. And isn't that after all exactly the same argument advanced in favour of upholding the borders of the Islamic conquests against latter-day encroachment?

    rather than do what you so insensitively and illiterately suggest. Perhaps you should consider calling on the Israelis to let go their stranglehold on Palestinian land and indeed Palestinian everything; there is nothing to suggest that Palestine can not be as prosperous in modern terms as Israel and its Arab neighbours currently are, if only Israel were to give them a chance.
    Independent arab-Islamic states, like Egypt and Jordan, are also dirt poor, which is something strongly suggesting that. Israel cannot end its blockade because these areas would then begin importing more weapons: you can't be half at war and half a peace; either surrender unconditionally or win.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    There is only land demand which is just and it is not the one based on the rantings of a 3,000 year old book which tells foreigners and immigrants that a piece of land far away from where they were born is their God given right.
    Instead being based on the rantings of a 1,300 year old book's God complex. Pot, meet kettle. This is why I have no interest in the land claims.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Instead being based on the rantings of a 1,300 year old book's God complex. Pot, meet kettle. This is why I have no interest in the land claims.
    I suggest you stop making unverified and incorrect assumptions. I don't base any of what I'm saying on any holy book.

    Ever since the 7th century, Muslims have been the dominant demographic in the region followed sometimes by Christians and sometimes by Jews. And that is absolutely fine. It is also fine if the dominant demographic had been Christians or Jews.

    What is not fine is immigrants who have lived in Europe for generations immigrating en masse to these people's homeland and telling them to **** off or die because apparently that land is their God given right.
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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    SEVENTY SIX bodies have been pulled out of the rubble so far. The death toll surpasses 1,000.

    http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Gaza_Blog/122605095

    Let's make sure we get all the facts


    Seventy-three bodies were pulled from the rubble Saturday, many of them partially decomposed, said Gaza Civil Defense spokesman Said al-Saoudi. Fighters were among the dead, he said.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28490640

    Baby rescued from mother killed by Israeli airstrike.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I suggest you stop making unverified and incorrect assumptions. I don't base any of what I'm saying on any holy book.
    Perhaps, but then you, as far as I know, are not a representative of the Palestinian governments, just some guy on the internet. Hamas explicitly justifies itself and its aims by appeal to Islamic scriptures.

    Ever since the 7th century, Muslims have been the dominant demographic in the region followed sometimes by Christians and sometimes by Jews. And that is absolutely fine. It is also fine if the dominant demographic had been Christians or Jews.

    What is not fine is immigrants who have lived in Europe for generations immigrating en masse to these people's homeland and telling them to **** off or die because apparently that land is their God given right.
    As opposed to that 7th century change-over, which happened via aethereal transmutation and not because of marauding Arab-Islamic colonial armies? I don't mean to criticise; after all, King Alfred conquered by the sword, too. I just don't see any more moral or emotional pull to your latter-day Alfredism, versus the latter-day Boudiceaism of Israel.
 
 
 
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