Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Gordon1985
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#2341
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#2341
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Why is that nuts? There's rather similar similarities between the two.
As opposed to dissimilar similarities?

What are these similarities between Scotland in 2013 and Northern Ireland in 1920?
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Caity.
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#2342
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#2342
A selfish issue: as a future Edinburgh student I don't want to have to be converting money all the time...so it's a no from me
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FinalMH
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#2343
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#2343
(Original post by Caity.)
A selfish issue: as a future Edinburgh student I don't want to have to be converting money all the time...so it's a no from me
You most likely won't need to convert money. The SNP want to use the pound any way.
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Caity.
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#2344
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#2344
(Original post by FinalMH)
You most likely won't need to convert money. The SNP want to use the pound any way.
That's not very popular south of the border unfortunately
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...use-pound.html
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cowsforsale
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#2345
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#2345
Yeah, all 8% of them.



Very nice.
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MatureStudent36
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#2346
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#2346
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Yeah, all 8% of them.



Very nice.

Amazing what somebody who promises them oil money can achieve though.
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Left Hand Drive
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#2347
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#2347
Another belter from the bitter together camo

ROAMING CHARGES WILL INCREASE FOR SCOTS IN ENGLAND straight after Europe announces a total fall on roaming charges.

The better together plan is to lie.
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Good bloke
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#2348
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#2348
(Original post by Left Hand Drive)
The better together plan is to lie.
I'm unclear why you call this a lie. Mobile phone companies certainly make roaming charges for subscribers who make calls while in other countries. It seems unlikely they would make a dispensation for Scots (and English) after independence. They don't make an exception in the case of Ireland, for instance.

Roaming charges have been forced down by the EU law-makers, but they still mean you can pay 24p to make a call and even 6p to receive one while abroad, above your normal costs. This will certainly affect frequent travellers to England, and potentially those who live on the border. It will also affect England-based visitors to Scotland, of course.
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Kj91
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#2349
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#2349
The Herald Scotland has this labelled as another scary story. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...-call.21480716
Also roaming charges are set to be abolished in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...next-year.html Not a very good scare story anyway.
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L i b
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#2350
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#2350
(Original post by Left Hand Drive)
Another belter from the bitter together camo

ROAMING CHARGES WILL INCREASE FOR SCOTS IN ENGLAND straight after Europe announces a total fall on roaming charges.

The better together plan is to lie.
I'm afraid you're the one lying here. The point was made that roaming charges may well apply between Scotland and the rest of the UK - which is highlighted as a problem in many parts of the world - notably on the Irish border or even in plucky old Gibraltar.

The UK Government document (nothing to do with Better Together, incidentally) will spell out the full European position on this matter. It is not, as some prominent SNP politicians have falsely claimed, abolishing roaming charges within the EU. It is simply placing a lower cap on them. They are still going to be expensive.

Some within the EU want to see roaming charges abolished. I largely agree with that objective. However that is not some sort of fait accompli, and they will be working against strong lobbying from the communications industry on that one.
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tooedgy
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#2351
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#2351
I don't think there will be much difference for ordinary Scottish people. Look at Ireland its economy barely changed when it gained independence.
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L i b
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#2352
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#2352
(Original post by Kj91)
The Herald Scotland has this labelled as another scary story. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...-call.21480716
So? Why on earth should we care about the opinion of Tom Gordon? Genuinely, tell me - because I'm at quite a loss on this one.

Also roaming charges are set to be abolished in 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...next-year.html
No, they're quite simply not. The only official part of this is a European Commissioner for 'the digital agenda' made a speech last month, and a paragraph of it read--

"The EU has already taken action on mobile roaming: removing barriers, making prices fairer, and introducing choice. But we still aren't there. Many citizens, for example, buy their minutes and megabytes as part of a "bundle". But that bundle normally only works at home – rarely across the single market. I want to develop quick solutions that build on what we've already achieved, but the end goal must be clear. I know many of us dream of a true, integrated single market. And in such a market, there is no roaming."

In case you haven't noticed, Commissioner Kroes is not a dictator. What she 'dreams' of is no substitute for, you know, a law-making process. In order to do something of this nature, it would have to be agreed by the European Parliament and the member states governments in the Council of Ministers. That's how legislation is made, not in speeches by Commissioners.

The UK Government presents clear fact and will do so over this issue. What Tom bloody Gordon thinks about it, having not read the report - and I doubt having read any of the previous Scotland Analysis series in any depth - is utterly immaterial.

This is another fine example of the Scottish nationalists talking nonsense over something they clearly don't understand. Trading in ludicrous accusations of scaremongering whenever a legitimate point trailed in advance of a paragraph or two of a lengthy and detailed report is nothing short of hysteria.
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L i b
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#2353
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#2353
(Original post by tooedgy)
I don't think there will be much difference for ordinary Scottish people. Look at Ireland its economy barely changed when it gained independence.
Are you genuinely serious?
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tooedgy
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#2354
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#2354
(Original post by L i b)
Are you genuinely serious?
The vote for independence shouldn't be made based on economics anyway. It is a vote based on culture and nationalism. If I were a nationalist I would not sacrifice my sovereignty for money, that would make me a sell out.
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L i b
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#2355
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#2355
(Original post by tooedgy)
The vote for independence shouldn't be made based on economics anyway. It is a vote based on culture and nationalism. If I were a nationalist I would not sacrifice my sovereignty for money, that would make me a sell out.
I reject nationalism as an abhorrant and morally repugnant ideology, and I don't think culture has very much at all to do with the State or how we are governed. What basis do you think I should be voting on?

As much as you say this is what a campaign should be fought on, it's not politically convincing. You should be aiming to win over swing voters, who are typically not particularly concerned about grand ideological concepts or calls to British or Scottish nationalism. In general, what they care about is whether change would be worth it, whether they will be better or worse off and whether things can still operate in a broadly similar way. That's what both sides are campaigning on.
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MatureStudent36
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#2356
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#2356
(Original post by Left Hand Drive)
Another belter from the bitter together camo

ROAMING CHARGES WILL INCREASE FOR SCOTS IN ENGLAND straight after Europe announces a total fall on roaming charges.

The better together plan is to lie.

If we want to talk about untruths. Shall we talk about the SNPs blatant lie about their legal advice about Europe? Shall we talk about their blatant lie about NATO? Shall we talk about their blatant lie about increased public spending that can't be financed? Shall we talk about the SNPs blatant lie about increased oil production?

Or we could read the real story.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2...roaming-cut-eu

So roaming charges have been capped and the SNP assume everything will carry on as normal
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MatureStudent36
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#2357
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#2357
(Original post by tooedgy)
I don't think there will be much difference for ordinary Scottish people. Look at Ireland its economy barely changed when it gained independence.
It became an economic basket case. It got better when it joined Europe, and now the Celtic tigers back in recession. Which other lies will you spread to promote your minority viewpoint?
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MatureStudent36
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#2358
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#2358
(Original post by tooedgy)
The vote for independence shouldn't be made based on economics anyway. It is a vote based on culture and nationalism. If I were a nationalist I would not sacrifice my sovereignty for money, that would make me a sell out.

You seem to forget that the majority of us can remain scottish and as part of the UK. And yes, economics is a big thing. I'd rather not see my house, investments, pensions etc go up in smoke.

I was fortunate enough to spend the weekend in York. Surprise, surprise, the cultural difference was no more than I feel going over to Glasgow.
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C-Dawg
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#2359
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#2359
Bad. The Scottish invent things like tartan kilts with no underwear and deep fried Mars bars when left to their own devices.
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navarre
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#2360
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#2360
(Original post by tooedgy)
The vote for independence shouldn't be made based on economics anyway. It is a vote based on culture and nationalism. If I were a nationalist I would not sacrifice my sovereignty for money, that would make me a sell out.
If you think that mainstream Scottish culture is significantly different from the culture of northern England, then I'm afraid you're living in fairyland. Other than haggis being more widely available in shops or bagpipes more played on the streets, the cultural difference between Edinburgh and Newcastle is negligible.

Oh, and Scotland will quite happily sell its sovereignty to the EU if it gains independence. It will go from most laws being made in London and Brussels to most laws being made in Brussels. Some nationalist dream, eh?
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