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    (Original post by MonkeyNews)
    Again, let me make this clear.

    The average IQ of black Africans in Africa, is around 65-70, that is classed as borderline mentally retarded.

    That is not my opinion, that is scientific fact.

    THAT is why Africa will never suceed and achieve, money will not make any difference.

    Whats the point in throwing money at people who dont know what to do with it?
    Well the IQ factor is more down to geographical and nutritional elements rather than inherent racial intelligence, just point that out.

    But I agree our current model of throwing money at the problem just isn't working. We need another age of Imperialism.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Well the IQ factor is more down to geographical and nutritional elements rather than inherent racial intelligence, just point that out.

    But I agree our current model of throwing money at the problem just isn't working. We need another age of Imperialism.
    Actually, it may well be due to similar selection factors that lead to other population differences. Economists Ed Miller and Greg Clark have discussed this. Miller with his parental provisioning argument - in year round tropical agricultural societies the men can do less work and there is greater selection for dominance, sociability, extraversion, impulsiveness, sensation seeking, and high testosterone. In societies with harsher climates men had to take on a greater provisioning role, so you had selection for anxiety, altruism, behavioral restraint and gratification delay.

    Clark makes a similar argument, pointing to settled agriculture and stable property rights which rewarded patience, self-control, passivity, and hard work – which consequently spread widely.

    In terms of IQ, research in China may well unveil statistical population differences. There are certainly consistent average differences around the world, regardless of nutritional factors.
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    (Original post by Chi019)
    Actually, it may well be due to similar selection factors that lead to other population differences. Economists Ed Miller and Greg Clark have discussed this. Miller with his parental provisioning argument - in year round tropical agricultural societies the men can do less work and there is greater selection for dominance, sociability, extraversion, impulsiveness, sensation seeking, and high testosterone. In societies with harsher climates men had to take on a greater provisioning role, so you had selection for anxiety, altruism, behavioral restraint and gratification delay.

    Clark makes a similar argument, pointing to settled agriculture and stable property rights which rewarded patience, self-control, passivity, and hard work – which consequently spread widely.

    In terms of IQ, research in China may well unveil statistical population differences. There are certainly consistent average differences around the world, regardless of nutritional factors.
    Hmm, interesting. I've had a read of the links and they are quite interesting. But I maintain a large partof racial IQ, particularly in Africa and the Middle East are also largely down to enviromental factors, although I admit there could be low IQ bred into them. Thanks for the links
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    (Original post by Mr Disco)
    1. The idea that intelligence is a single, quantifiable capacity and the notion of IQ is of any value whatsoever is bull**** and shouldn't even be entering in to the argument.

    2. Maybe, just maybe, some of the problems in Africa we might attribute to the 4 centuries of plundering and subjugation it was subjected to by the British, Belgians, Italians, French and Portuguese.

    No?
    1. Everyone who studies intelligence disagrees with you.

    2. All of the Americas, India, Australia, most of South East Asia and parts of China were all colonised as well. Moreover the countries that were colonised for the longest actually have the highest GDPs today.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Well the IQ factor is more down to geographical and nutritional elements rather than inherent racial intelligence, just point that out.
    Actually the data suggests that the largest differences are caused by genetics, though obviously nutrition and the Flynn effect play a large role.
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    Other than political problems (corruption, wars), I think why African countries remain so poor is that most of the lands are not suitable for agriculture because of the climate.

    This may not be true though, as many developed countries, like Japan, actually have very few farmlands.
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    (Original post by Callum828)
    1. Everyone who studies intelligence disagrees with you.

    2. All of the Americas, India, Australia, most of South East Asia and parts of China were all colonised as well. Moreover the countries that were colonised for the longest actually have the highest GDPs today.
    1. Everyone who studies intelligence as a single, quantifiable capacity disagrees with anyone who would assert that it is not a single, quantifiable capacity (as it self evidently is not).

    You have proved less absolutely nothing.

    2. So?
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    (Original post by Mr Disco)
    1. Everyone who studies intelligence as a single, quantifiable capacity disagrees with anyone who would assert that it is not a single, quantifiable capacity (as it self evidently is not).

    You have proved less absolutely nothing.

    2. So?
    1. http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/wsj_main.html

    More crucially, this part:

    "Intelligence, so defined, can be measured, and intelligence tests measure it well. They are among the most accurate (in technical terms, reliable and valid) of all psychological tests and assessments. They do not measure creativity, character, personality, or other important differences among individuals, nor are they intended to."

    2. Clearly it is important, because you are blaming Africa's poverty on colonisation, which is irrelevant if most other former colonies are doing okay.
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    (Original post by Callum828)
    1. http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/wsj_main.html

    More crucially, this part:

    "Intelligence, so defined, can be measured, and intelligence tests measure it well. They are among the most accurate (in technical terms, reliable and valid) of all psychological tests and assessments. They do not measure creativity, character, personality, or other important differences among individuals, nor are they intended to."

    2. Clearly it is important, because you are blaming Africa's poverty on colonisation, which is irrelevant if most other former colonies are doing okay.
    1. The quotation marks don't make that piece of unsubstantiated opinion any more valid. The remark refers to one understanding of "intelligence". An understanding that I, and the vast majority of contemporary psychologists, would reject as absurd.

    2. Colonisation did not occur in a uniform fashion, nor did it have uniform consequences. Try looking at the fate of the indigenous populations of Australia, rather than, frankly irrelevant GDP for Australia as a whole.

    This sort of unsustainable Caucasian pride tends represent the last shreds of self worth of physically and intellectually unremarkable white folk.
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    (Original post by Mr Disco)
    1. The quotation marks don't make that piece of unsubstantiated opinion any more valid. The remark refers to one understanding of "intelligence". An understanding that I, and the vast majority of contemporary psychologists would reject as absurd.

    2. Colonisation did not occur in a uniform fashion, nor did it have uniform consequences. Try looking at the fate of the indigenous populations of Australia, rather than, frankly irrelevant GDP for Australia as a whole.

    This sort of unsustainable Caucasian pride tends represent the last shreds of self worth of physically and intellectually unremarkable white folk.
    The scientific findings of all the major scientists working in the field of intelligence do not make ' an unsubstantiated opinion'. The knee-jerk opinion of an uninformed blogger on a forum is 'an unsubstantiated opinion'

    Although I'm fascinated about your 'caucasian pride' point, could you elaborate?
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    (Original post by pinacio)
    Other than political problems (corruption, wars), I think why African countries remain so poor is that most of the lands are not suitable for agriculture because of the climate.

    This may not be true though, as many developed countries, like Japan, actually have very few farmlands.
    Compare Singapore and Jamaica, or Iceland and Haiti. It's pretty clear that soil fertility has little to do with economic growth in the modern world.
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    (Original post by pinacio)
    Other than political problems (corruption, wars), I think why African countries remain so poor is that most of the lands are not suitable for agriculture because of the climate.

    This may not be true though, as many developed countries, like Japan, actually have very few farmlands.
    The problem isn't the climate, but the level of organisation. Zimbabwe was the 'bread basket of Africa' before Mugabe decided land reforms were needed to remove the european farmers. Once they were removed it quickly became dependent on outside aid.

    Other places were formerly prosperous when they had western governance. The New York Times in 1991.

    While the Belgians were often consummately patronizing to their African subjects, they installed an efficient colonial administration. In time, they introduced health care, water projects, education, telephones and power lines, helping to turn this once isolated village into one of the most affluent and best-tended cities in the core of equatorial Africa.

    Today, the legacy of Kikwit's colonial past is swiftly disappearing.

    "Civilization is coming to an end here," said Rene Kinsweke, manager of Siefac, a chain of food stores, as he spoke of how Kikwit has become a dispiriting tableau of chaos and catastrophe. "We're back where we started. We're going back into the bush."


    It is difficult to exaggerate the dizzying pace of decay in this city of nearly 400,000 people. Six months ago, the Siefac food conglomerate consisted of 21 stores in Bandundu Province. Today, a single store is left, and it is to close as soon as its remaining stock is sold, Mr. Kinsweke said.

    The main road to Kikwit is now rutted and crumbled, and for most of the year the city can be reached from Kinshasa, Zaire's capital, only by a four-wheel-drive vehicle. In 1960, when Zaire gained independence, a visitor could drive the 300 miles in six hours. Today the same drive takes at least 10 hours.
    From Time Magazine in 2008.

    Come Back, Colonialism, All Is Forgiven

    Le Blanc and I are into our 500th kilometer on the river when he turns my view of modern African history on its head. "We should just give it all back to the whites," the riverboat captain says. "Even if you go 1,000 kilometers down this river, you won't see a single sign of development. When the whites left, we didn't just stay where we were. We went backwards."
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    (Original post by Chi019)
    The problem isn't the climate, but the level of organisation. Zimbabwe was the 'bread basket of Africa' before Mugabe decided land reforms were needed to remove the european farmers. Once they were removed it quickly became dependent on outside aid.

    Other places were formerly prosperous when they had western governance. The New York Times in 1991.



    From Time Magazine in 2008.
    I see. Thanks
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    That statement is way too far fetched. How do you know that africa will NEVER ever be wealthy?

    Fyi your pathetic attempt for an explanation is no reason.
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    (Original post by Ice Constricter)
    That statement is way too far fetched. How do you know that africa will NEVER ever be wealthy?
    As noted in my post above, it may be wealthy again if european or asian nations enter to provide the necessary governance and infrastructure.
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    (Original post by MonkeyNews)
    Again, let me make this clear.

    The average IQ of black Africans in Africa, is around 65-70, that is classed as borderline mentally retarded.

    That is not my opinion, that is scientific fact.

    THAT is why Africa will never suceed and achieve, money will not make any difference.

    Whats the point in throwing money at people who dont know what to do with it?
    this IQ talk tends to piss me off. It is easy to forget that these IQ tests were designed by westerners. how are you sure it is culturally representative? It has been shown that people tend to do better in certain elements than in others. Besides how would you define IQ? if someone was brilliant at maths and dumb at english would you classify the person as stupid? I'm black and was the smartest person in my year by far did i immediately conclude that Caucasians are stupid? NO

    rant over,bring on the neggers
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    (Original post by brionyak)
    this IQ talk tends to piss me off. It is easy to forget that these IQ tests were designed by westerners. how are you sure it is culturally representative? It has been shown that people tend to do better in certain elements than in others. Besides how would you define IQ? if someone was brilliant at maths and dumb at english would you classify the person as stupid? I'm black and was the smartest person in my year by far did i immediately conclude that Caucasians are stupid? NO

    rant over,bring on the neggers
    Designed by white people yes, and yet the highest scorers are East Asians. Does a Chinese or Korean peasant know more about white, western culture than, you know, white people?

    Moreover, the racial difference is more pronounced on the culture-fair tests, as well as on a slew of other measurements of intelligence that don't involve tests at all.
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    (Original post by Ice Constricter)
    That statement is way too far fetched. How do you know that africa will NEVER ever be wealthy?

    Fyi your pathetic attempt for an explanation is no reason.
    Africa has been a hole for the last 60 years of independence, while Asia and the Americas are booming. To conclude that Africa won't see a sudden reversal of fortunes is not far-fetched, it's the most logical conclusion.
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    he called the African leaders; 'monkeys' in power...

    is he a racist?
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    I'm sure the same was said about America 300 years ago. " Sir, The Americas it is a untamed and unhealthy wilderness inhabited By none other than the likes Of feral natives and Greedy colonial governors"
 
 
 
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