What do you think of public school pupils? Watch

Sheldor
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#221
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#221
(Original post by Architecture-er)
You're really not making any sense.

I'm saying extra-curric and interview prep is how public schools get an edge.

That other person said that extra-curric don't matter, it's about academic potential.

I said that people's academic potential can't really be taken into account, since everyone applying will be performing adequately for oxbridge, at least on a measureable level.

Then you say that good grades aren't necessarily a good indicator for academic potential.


Basically this conversation has zig-zagged its way hither and thither, and what you're saying is completely irrelevant. Good grades aren't necessarily a good indicator of potential? Then please enlighten us, but frankly it doesn't contribute in any way to what we're discussing, I suspect you jumped on my reply to the other person as an opportunity for you to flout the flout, but frankly, you're not actually refuting anything (since you're not addressing anything).

Since I was retorting that everyone will be relatively equal academically, what does it matter whether if they're assessed by grades or some other method, the point still stands that oxbridge applicants tend above the bar of entry, as an average. So that makes academic potential irrelevant to discussing how private schools give students an extra edge, since anyone can have the required intellect for oxbridge admission, but perhaps not have the sports facilities or teachers with oxbridge knowledge that will give them a more solid base from which to pitch themselves.

If you have a relevant point to make, perhaps on how public schools do give a significant leading edge in academia over their state-funded counterparts, then please do so.. but it looks like you just wanted to be a nit-picker, without actually having a contribution to put forth.... :confused:
Oxbridge admission officers don't care about extra curriculars. As one admissions tutor put it "I'd rather have a brilliant historian than a good one than can play the flute."Unless an extra curricular is directly related to the subject,like volounteering with the elderly for Medicine, they won't care either way. Organ, Choir Scholars etc. are the only type of admissions where they care about an extra curricular activity, in music. Oxbridge differentiate on candidates based on tests like the ELAT,HAT,STEP etc. The ELAT, for English, needs no past knowledge of literature or essay structure, only a naturally effortless writing style and sense of analysing texts. Along with the interview, in which you must demonstrate your personal love for the subject, what you've done to further your knowledge, to back up your PS, show that you can gain and learn and critically think well and on your feet in the interview ,which is somewhat like a mini tutorial, and are suited to Oxbridge. Oxbridge want someone brilliant in their field,and don't care about anything outside academia. Go ask on the Oxbridge forum and you'll find the students giving you similair answers. Private schools have many advantagesmaller class sizes, no distruptive pupils(kids can be expelled with much less hassle), bad teachers will be fired quickly, good knowledge of Oxbridge admissions to make sure myths like the above don't lower the strength of the application, etc.


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Architecture-er
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#222
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#222
(Original post by Sheldor)
Oxbridge admission officers don't care about extra curriculars. As one admissions tutor put it "I'd rather have a brilliant historian than a good one than can play the flute."Unless an extra curricular is directly related to the subject,like volounteering with the elderly for Medicine, they won't care either way. Organ, Choir Scholars etc. are the only type of admissions where they care about an extra curricular activity, in music. Oxbridge differentiate on candidates based on tests like the ELAT,HAT,STEP etc. The ELAT, for English, needs no past knowledge of literature or essay structure, only a naturally effortless writing style and sense of analysing texts. Along with the interview, in which you must demonstrate your personal love for the subject, what you've done to further your knowledge, to back up your PS, show that you can gain and learn and critically think well and on your feet in the interview ,which is somewhat like a mini tutorial, and are suited to Oxbridge. Oxbridge want someone brilliant in their field,and don't care about anything outside academia. Go ask on the Oxbridge forum and you'll find the students giving you similair answers. Private schools have many advantagesmaller class sizes, no distruptive pupils(kids can be expelled with much less hassle), bad teachers will be fired quickly, good knowledge of Oxbridge admissions to make sure myths like the above don't lower the strength of the application, etc.


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Exactly, well said
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M'Ling
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(Original post by im so academic)
I'm not talking about marks and percentages and grades. I'm talking about education. Who cares if you got AAA? A privately educated student with AAB might be better educated than a state educated student with AAA. This also works both ways.
Well if we're going to disband grades as a means of determining being "better educated", then on what basis do the majority of universities base their offers (i.e., and I know this is hard for you in particular, NOT Oxbridge)? I'm sure you'll find local hobos who are "better educated" than the average student in that they know more about life, but I wouldn't offer them university places. In other words, you need grades as a determining factor so for you to say "oh it doesn't matter anyway" suggests you would give university places on some other basis?



(Original post by im so academic)
Yes, private schools generally do offer better learning environments. That does NOT mean ALL state students have a harder ride. That does not follow.
I'd argue that the majority of private schools do offer a better learning environment. Otherwise, why bother paying for it? This explains why 40% of people at Oxbridge are privately-educated yet only 7% of the nation are. Of course not ALL state-schools fit my description, but I based it on the two state schools in different areas that I went to, so I'd say a lot are.
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Sheldor
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(Original post by M'Ling)
Well if we're going to disband grades as a means of determining being "better educated", then on what basis do the majority of universities base their offers (i.e., and I know this is hard for you in particular, NOT Oxbridge)? I'm sure you'll find local hobos who are "better educated" than the average student in that they know more about life, but I wouldn't offer them university places. In other words, you need grades as a determining factor so for you to say "oh it doesn't matter anyway" suggests you would give university places on some other basis?





I'd argue that the majority of private schools do offer a better learning environment. Otherwise, why bother paying for it? This explains why 40% of people at Oxbridge are privately-educated yet only 7% of the nation are. Of course not ALL state-schools fit my description, but I based it on the two state schools in different areas that I went to, so I'd say a lot are.
The reason there are so many private school pupils is because so many apply. I think around 4700-ish pupils applied from private schools out of around 12000 applications to Oxbridge. Those who apply are represented.


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cl_steele
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Ive met some cocks from public school and state school ... theyre all the same just different schools.
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MsAaliyah
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(Original post by must try harder.)
I think that's a bit harsh, and it is a stereotype. You can never really know whether anyone's had any struggles in their lives unless you ask them, and the idea that parents will hand them everything they want is also misguided - of course this is the case for some people, but this isn't true for the majority of students at public schools. As for the money, I know plenty of people who could have afforded the tuition fees but still decided not to.. I have nothing against either type of student - there's no reason to.
Its an opinion, just what I think I mean everybody has their own personal struggles in life I am not denying that.
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0000fw
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It's irritating that they often achieve the highest grades at A levels and go to the best universities as they are given the best teaching and resources. Seems very unfair when many of us have to put up with bad teaching, disruptive classes and poor school resources. However, in the long run I feel like comp school grades are worth more in the end as state school kids have struggled to get them and not been 'spoon-fed'. However my problem is with the system not with those in the system- if that makes any sense.
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Sheldor
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(Original post by 0000fw)
It's irritating that they often achieve the highest grades at A levels and go to the best universities as they are given the best teaching and resources. Seems very unfair when many of us have to put up with bad teaching, disruptive classes and poor school resources. However, in the long run I feel like comp school grades are worth more in the end as state school kids have struggled to get them and not been 'spoon-fed'. However my problem is with the system not with those in the system- if that makes any sense.
Private school pupils aren't spoon fed!(I hate how many times this comes up, it annoys me, not having a go at you.) All that happens is they are given a better standard of teaching, and taught to properly understand the material instead of regurgitating it for the exam which is what many state schools do. They work just as hard as everyone else. If they couldn't care less, they get a U like everyone else.(Excluding the geniuses.) If they really work hard and have the intelligence, they get a* like everyone else.(Excluding the don't care geniuses.) Nobody is handed an A on a plate, private schoolers are just encouraged more to go beyond what the curriculum says. Any state schooler with enough drive can do the same, and wow Oxbridge with their extra curricular reading at the local library. I know that state pupils have it hard, but I don't like people insisting that private pupils have it very easy. They have it easier, but not extremely so.


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XxelliexX
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At the past two schools I've been to I've socialised with a mixture of private and state schooled people... tbh I wouldn't really be able to tell the difference if they didn't tell me.
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0000fw
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(Original post by Sheldor)
Private school pupils aren't spoon fed!(I hate how many times this comes up, it annoys me, not having a go at you.) All that happens is they are given a better standard of teaching, and taught to properly understand the material instead of regurgitating it for the exam which is what many state schools do. They work just as hard as everyone else. If they couldn't care less, they get a U like everyone else.(Excluding the geniuses.) If they really work hard and have the intelligence, they get a* like everyone else.(Excluding the don't care geniuses.) Nobody is handed an A on a plate, private schoolers are just encouraged more to go beyond what the curriculum says. Any state schooler with enough drive can do the same, and wow Oxbridge with their extra curricular reading at the local library. I know that state pupils have it hard, but I don't like people insisting that private pupils have it very easy. They have it easier, but not extremely so.


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Sorry I suppose it was shorthand, you are right to say no one gets handed an A but I think it's easier for public school pupils to gain an A. For example, I go to a fairly average comprehensive school and have worked very hard as has everyone I know but we don't get A stars. We don't have the textbooks or the practical equipment (for biology) meaning we miss out on some of the course content purely through lack of money. The teaching at GCSE was mostly bad, no one had revision books or was even aware that we had access to free online revision sites as our school pushed leaving at 16 and getting a job more than continuing education or helping us. Although I am not criticising you as public school students do work hard for their grades but I don't think they have as many obstacles in the way of their grades.
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Sheldor
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(Original post by 0000fw)
Sorry I suppose it was shorthand, you are right to say no one gets handed an A but I think it's easier for public school pupils to gain an A. For example, I go to a fairly average comprehensive school and have worked very hard as has everyone I know but we don't get A stars. We don't have the textbooks or the practical equipment (for biology) meaning we miss out on some of the course content purely through lack of money. The teaching at GCSE was mostly bad, no one had revision books or was even aware that we had access to free online revision sites as our school pushed leaving at 16 and getting a job more than continuing education or helping us. Although I am not criticising you as public school students do work hard for their grades but I don't think they have as many obstacles in the way of their grades.
Ah, it's ok. Though I don't understand why state school pupils can't use google or sites like TSR? My friends go to average comprehensives which actually push more towards everyone going to Uni so they can satisfy the government quotas and get extra funding, so I don't know if it's just your school that's like that? Anyway, the hard working pupils at the worst school in the area all research how to get the best grades and find revision websites, things like TSR, get course content from the internet and get textbooks from the library or second hand on Amazon. Although I do agree that there are less obstacles in the way of private schoolers as they don't have to google anything or navigate the system by themselves, they get all the resources at school. My county is actually quite high on average on the state school league tables, so maybe my friends experiences with state schools have just been exceptional?


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zintanax
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i go to a public school and i know people from non public schools, and you know what? I'm good friends with them!
in my opinion, majority of public / private schoolers are not snobbish as people think.
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0000fw
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(Original post by Sheldor)
Ah, it's ok. Though I don't understand why state school pupils can't use google or sites like TSR? My friends go to average comprehensives which actually push more towards everyone going to Uni so they can satisfy the government quotas and get extra funding, so I don't know if it's just your school that's like that? Anyway, the hard working pupils at the worst school in the area all research how to get the best grades and find revision websites, things like TSR, get course content from the internet and get textbooks from the library or second hand on Amazon. Although I do agree that there are less obstacles in the way of private schoolers as they don't have to google anything or navigate the system by themselves, they get all the resources at school. My county is actually quite high on average on the state school league tables, so maybe my friends experiences with state schools have just been exceptional?


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I honestly had never heard of them and because no one else I knew was aware of the sites at age 15 we didn't really hear about them. My school is in a grammar school area and so takes all the pupils who didn't get in- generally those with less interest in education, less intelligent/ able students- so the school do not emphasise how important it is to do well or the free resources available. I could have found them with a quick google but I honestly never really understood how important education was to my future until halfway though sixth from when everyone in our school suddenly realised they wanted to do well at A levels and maybe go to university.

They've definitely done well, although it isn't impossible, I just don't think I had the right mindset in GCSE's partly because the school expressly told us that we were unlikely to go to university or be able to be teachers or bankers etc so I guess we believed them and didn't strive for the best for ourselves. Anyway, for me it's worked out fine so I don't hold any grudges. I agree with you that there are many ways to educate yourself, I think the main problem is the mindset, I always wanted to do well and worked hard but it never quite manifested in an efficient way until AS level and even then I think it was partly to do with one of the teachers who showed us some respect and believed that we had the potential to do well. I think how well you do also depends on your attitude and self belief a lot.
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Captain Darling
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There was a great name for our school that the local town ruffians gave us, Cream.

We asked, what do you mean, Cream.

"Rich and thick, innit."
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Bulbasaur
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#235
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If we're talking strictly about public and not private school pupils, I wouldn't know because I haven't actually met any (though you do sometimes hear bad things about them- but it's not something to base an opinion on). But I know a fair few private school kids, my opinion on them isn't really much different to a state schooler like me... in fact i'd probably get on with them better than most people at my school.

(Original post by fudgesundae)
Whichever school you went to obviously failed to teach you manners. There's no need to be so rude, your style of posting is extremely defensive. My reply was actually to the poster I had quoted above you who had mentioned economic background, I didn't mean to quote that part of your post, only the latter part.



The Oxford English Dictionary is obviously not one of your books then. Just kidding

Flinging money around such as in the case you described (with the cricket ball) is ostentatious rather than snobby.



It's only snobby if said person believes they are inherently better than everyone else in the shop because they can do that.
This actually proves Junaid's point. It's not finishing school. Schools don't exist to teach manners. If yours does, then that just supports his point that they are out of touch in the first place... you would learn this stuff from your parents. I thought that was common knowledge..
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fudgesundae
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(Original post by Bulbasaur)
This actually proves Junaid's point. It's not finishing school. Schools don't exist to teach manners. If yours does, then that just supports his point that they are out of touch in the first place... you would learn this stuff from your parents. I thought that was common knowledge..
It was a sarcastic remark. Didn't know that English lessons no longer covered sarcasm anymore. That was another one btw (although I wouldn't be surprised if it were true).

Schools should start teaching children some manners again, looking at a lot of the people living in this country, they aren't getting taught any by their parents.
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Sheldor
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(Original post by fudgesundae)
It was a sarcastic remark. Didn't know that English lessons no longer covered sarcasm anymore. That was another one btw (although I wouldn't be surprised if it were true).

Schools should start teaching children some manners again, looking at a lot of the people living in this country, they aren't getting taught any by their parents.
Schools do teach manners (at primary) but not everyone listens. In reception, you do all the "respect, treat everyone the same" stuff, as well as many teachers insisting you say please and thank you and rewarding kids who open doors for other people and have good manners. This is what happens in my county, anyway.


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fudgesundae
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(Original post by Sheldor)
Schools do teach manners (at primary) but not everyone listens. In reception, you do all the "respect, treat everyone the same" stuff, as well as many teachers insisting you say please and thank you and rewarding kids who open doors for other people and have good manners. This is what happens in my county, anyway.


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Yeh you do get taught when you are really young, but like you said no one really listens.
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Sheldor
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(Original post by fudgesundae)
Yeh you do get taught when you are really young, but like you said no one really listens.
Well, I wouldn't say nobody listens. Most people do, but since you spend more time at home than at school, if your parents are always swearing and shouting and slamming doors, your more likely to get used to and imitate that environment.


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jo1692
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I spent one year at a good public school in Year 8 because my dad was on secondment somewhere for a year, all the good state schools were full, while the public school's selective admissions policy favoured me. There were a few snobs, a few ultra-studious Asian girls, a few people with more money than sense and some interesting opinions of poorer folk and no 'chavs' disrupting lessons and insulting people because of their achievement. There was a greater interest amongst girls in competitive sports. But generally everyone was similar to my state school with similar interests and views.

I only had one negative experience. The family of a close friend I made at this school could only afford to send her there through the dad working a second job and the mum working full-time. A lot of the other mums at the school did not work at all, and this particular mum was very excluded because they expected mums to meet up with each other for lunches, to invite kids around during the holidays to take them out/entertain them. Obviously she was unable to do either of those things. At the Christmas concert, the ringleader of these mums gave out Christmas presents to all the other Year 8 mums (relatively small year group) except her.
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