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    (Original post by heyimbored)
    That's my point, everyone said that after the North Korean's told us about their amazing range, but now Dave's told us the same thing, everyone is concerned about it. There's nothing to suggest that he's received some kind of special intelligence, or that he misspoke, he just repeated what we've already been told.

    Evidently, you're not one of these people of course
    But theres a difference between a hostile state claiming something and our leaders saying their claims are accurate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0
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    (Original post by stuart_aitken)
    For all who might be interested - search for a film called 'Threads'. It's a 1988 British Bafta award winning documentary style film about the aftermath of the UK being nuked. It's set in Sheffield and is quite a poignant story.

    Probably available on YouTube - it was there last time I looked.

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    Its not like North Korea can launch weapons at us; we can just enjoy the show without having to take part.
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    http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-0...-korea-threat/

    Perhaps he thinks some panic buying will boost the economy.
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    Please debate sensibly. Offensive comments are unacceptable and will be moderated harshly if it continues here.
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    The DPRNK isn't going to launch a full scale war. They're deluded but they're not quite deluded enough to want to literally take on the world. They know China and Russia won't support them and will probably have to cut of supplies.

    However, we should go in. Japan, the US and South Korea should attack pre-emptively to prevent NK building up its nuclear arsenal, 'just in case'.

    In interesting article: Foreignpolicy.com
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    Maybe it is just me, but I think that the US and UK governments know something that we don't with regards to NK. David Cameron said today that NK had the capability to hit the United Kingdom with a Nuclear tipped rocket. Now I don't know if the PM made a mistake when he said this, or has he accidentally let it out of the bag that NK has more advanced weapons that we thought? It is known that he has enough weapon grade Plutonium to make six Nuclear Bombs, but it was always thought that he did not have the technology to put it onto rockets, and for these rockets to fire. Could it actually be, that we have cocked up, and he does in fact have the capability to fire these rockets? I'm more concerned with the 1.1 Million screaming highly trained Communist troops and special forces he has got under his control, who can quite easily spill over the DMZ, and run amok on SK. I do hope that this is all bluster, but if it not bluster, and he does indeed attack SK, Japan or Guam with these rockets, then I would expect Obama to launch a full Nuclear strike on NK and flatten the place. It is not worth the risk, this guy and his Generals need to be taken out, one way or the other.
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    (Original post by Narutopolaris)
    Its not like North Korea can launch weapons at us; we can just enjoy the show without having to take part.
    The economic effects of them destroying say, Seoul or Tokyo probably would effect us quite a lot.

    Besides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6169717.stm
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    (Original post by Narutopolaris)
    Great men in history have found a pleasure in war...an animalistic drive that connects with our most basic need for survival. United in fear, we learn the best and worst of ourselves in war...War is human nature; War is glorious. War cuts away at the dead flesh of society...
    It's always the most pussified people who come out with things like this. I've not been to war myself, but it's probably pretty **** overall.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Maybe it is just me, but I think that the US and UK governments know something that we don't with regards to NK. David Cameron said today that NK had the capability to hit the United Kingdom with a Nuclear tipped rocket. Now I don't know if the PM made a mistake when he said this, or has he accidentally let it out of the bag that NK has more advanced weapons that we thought? It is known that he has enough weapon grade Plutonium to make six Nuclear Bombs, but it was always thought that he did not have the technology to put it onto rockets, and for these rockets to fire. Could it actually be, that we have cocked up, and he does in fact have the capability to fire these rockets? I'm more concerned with the 1.1 Million screaming highly trained Communist troops and special forces he has got under his control, who can quite easily spill over the DMZ, and run amok on SK. I do hope that this is all bluster, but if it not bluster, and he does indeed attack SK, Japan or Guam with these rockets, then I would expect Obama to launch a full Nuclear strike on NK and flatten the place. It is not worth the risk, this guy and his Generals need to be taken out, one way or the other.
    It probably true that they know more than they tell us (Through the CIA and MI6 etc) but I think it is unlikely that they'll ever fire nuke at the USA, least of all the UK. Even if they do acquire the capabilty (which is probable at some point in the future), they are not stupid enough to fire them.
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    Nothing's going to happen. :yawn:
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Maybe it is just me, but I think that the US and UK governments know something that we don't with regards to NK. David Cameron said today that NK had the capability to hit the United Kingdom with a Nuclear tipped rocket. Now I don't know if the PM made a mistake when he said this, or has he accidentally let it out of the bag that NK has more advanced weapons that we thought? It is known that he has enough weapon grade Plutonium to make six Nuclear Bombs, but it was always thought that he did not have the technology to put it onto rockets, and for these rockets to fire. Could it actually be, that we have cocked up, and he does in fact have the capability to fire these rockets? I'm more concerned with the 1.1 Million screaming highly trained Communist troops and special forces he has got under his control, who can quite easily spill over the DMZ, and run amok on SK. I do hope that this is all bluster, but if it not bluster, and he does indeed attack SK, Japan or Guam with these rockets, then I would expect Obama to launch a full Nuclear strike on NK and flatten the place. It is not worth the risk, this guy and his Generals need to be taken out, one way or the other.
    Even if it goes nuclear on their side I don't believe any current Government would retaliate with the same. We have no need to. We have precision weapons which could take everything of importance out quickly and with as little civilian casualties as is possible.
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    If he is a complete basket case and does fire a Nuclear Weapon at Guam or SK, then the US will launch a Nuclear Strike against him. Absolutely.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    It probably true that they know more than they tell us (Through the CIA and MI6 etc) but I think it is unlikely that they'll ever fire nuke at the USA, least of all the UK. Even if they do acquire the capabilty (which is probable at some point in the future), they are not stupid enough to fire them.
    I don't think you can really say that about North Korea I don't think we have quite seen the limits of their stupidity just yet. Remember they live in a different fantasy land to the rest of the world half of their own generals probably believe the propoganda I wouldn't be suprised if the dear chubster believed it aswell as he doesn't seem the smartest.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Even if it goes nuclear on their side I don't believe any current Government would retaliate with the same. We have no need to. We have precision weapons which could take everything of importance out quickly and with as little civilian casualties as is possible.
    Let's hope it doesn't happen, but to think the unthinkable for a short while, if they did succeed in, say, nuking Seoul, then presumably there would have to be an all-out offensive into NK accompanied by very widespread destruction of all government and military facilities? It might not be a nuclear response, but presumably it would be devastating?

    I hope to God it isn't anything approaching this in reality, as presumably the truth is that NK is at a lower level of nuclear deployment potential than they keep claiming and it is all just bluster. Things must be pretty bad there now for the government for them to be engaging in such extreme rhetoric. The real danger now is that they have boxed themselves into doing at least something crazy (like sinking a ship or shelling something again) to prove they aren't all just hollow threats.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Let's hope it doesn't happen, but to think the unthinkable for a short while, if they did succeed in, say, nuking Seoul, then presumably there would have to be an all-out offensive into NK accompanied by very widespread destruction of all government and military facilities? It might not be a nuclear response, but presumably it would be devastating?

    I hope to God it isn't anything approaching this in reality, as presumably the truth is that NK is at a lower level of nuclear deployment potential than they keep claiming and it is all just bluster. Things must be pretty bad there now for the government for them to be engaging in such extreme rhetoric. The real danger now is that they have boxed themselves into doing at least something crazy (like sinking a ship or shelling something again) to prove they aren't all just hollow threats.
    Unquestionably. But devastating to the point where rubble can be cleared and buildings rebuilt, or devastating to the point where the land can't be used for 30 years...

    One of the issues would be that an attack on NK would have to take out the infrastructure. With most countries, this is a big ask, and it would involve hitting a lot of things, or one thing in a big way - hence nukes. But NK doesn't have that level of infrastructure.
    Proof:
    Spoiler:
    Show

    Either NK is very serious about global warming, or they've got no electrical systems for us to hit.


    With the rhetoric, there is a 'reason' for them doing it in this way. Think of it from Kim's point of view.
    He has taken over the country as a young lad with no credentials apart from that his father and grandfather ran it before him. He has to demonstrate some form of national leadership and authority to the North Korean people. For this he has one major advantage; total control over the media.

    The nuclear test was nothing to do with it. It was scheduled to happen and they were going to accept the crap being thrown at them anyway.

    The joint American/South Korean exercises presented the opportunity. The build up for these exercises could be presented to the North Koreans as a prelude for invasion by the American Imperialists and their South Korean running dogs. To counter this the North Korean leadership, ie Kim, has to demonstrate to any belligerent the penalties for invading North Korea. ie, nuke everybody in sight with real or imagined weapons. The population would then turn out in their millions to demonstrate their solidarity with their Great Leader who has faced up to the imperialists.

    Then comes Endex in the south and then Kim can tell the people of North Korea how he faced them down so that Americans and South Koreans were forced to withdraw.

    Simples. Years ago, albeit on a smaller scale, the Brits used to do that with the Russians
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Let's hope it doesn't happen, but to think the unthinkable for a short while, if they did succeed in, say, nuking Seoul, then presumably there would have to be an all-out offensive into NK accompanied by very widespread destruction of all government and military facilities? It might not be a nuclear response, but presumably it would be devastating?

    I hope to God it isn't anything approaching this in reality, as presumably the truth is that NK is at a lower level of nuclear deployment potential than they keep claiming and it is all just bluster. Things must be pretty bad there now for the government for them to be engaging in such extreme rhetoric. The real danger now is that they have boxed themselves into doing at least something crazy (like sinking a ship or shelling something again) to prove they aren't all just hollow threats.
    I can't help wondering what China's involvement, if any, in this whole affair is.
    It seems unlikely that NK would be going so far without some form of approval from at least some people in the Chinese government.
    Could China be presenting a moderate view to the world whilst secretly backing and encouraging NK with a view to finding out the international community's responses and resolve if it ever decides to pursue an expansionist policy in the future? Having said that I doubt if they would want to start a nuclear war at the moment so the above could all just be fanciful musings on my part...
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Unquestionably. But devastating to the point where rubble can be cleared and buildings rebuilt, or devastating to the point where the land can't be used for 30 years...

    One of the issues would be that an attack on NK would have to take out the infrastructure. With most countries, this is a big ask, and it would involve hitting a lot of things, or one thing in a big way - hence nukes. But NK doesn't have that level of infrastructure.
    Proof:

    Either NK is very serious about global warming, or they've got no electrical systems for us to hit.


    With the rhetoric, there is a 'reason' for them doing it in this way. Think of it from Kim's point of view.
    He has taken over the country as a young lad with no credentials apart from that his father and grandfather ran it before him. He has to demonstrate some form of national leadership and authority to the North Korean people. For this he has one major advantage; total control over the media.

    The nuclear test was nothing to do with it. It was scheduled to happen and they were going to accept the crap being thrown at them anyway.

    The joint American/South Korean exercises presented the opportunity. The build up for these exercises could be presented to the North Koreans as a prelude for invasion by the American Imperialists and their South Korean running dogs. To counter this the North Korean leadership, ie Kim, has to demonstrate to any belligerent the penalties for invading North Korea. ie, nuke everybody in sight with real or imagined weapons. The population would then turn out in their millions to demonstrate their solidarity with their Great Leader who has faced up to the imperialists.

    Then comes Endex in the south and then Kim can tell the people of North Korea how he faced them down so that Americans and South Koreans were forced to withdraw.

    Simples. Years ago, albeit on a smaller scale, the Brits used to do that with the Russians
    The satellite photo is deeply funny, but presumably they still have substantial, albeit badly lit, military bases to hit.

    Yes, of course the bellicosity is connected to the US/SK exercizes and of course they come out with this every time they happen - my point is that it is seemingly more intense this time, which must as I said raise the concern that they will have to follow through with some real action, as just telling their population "oh we pushed the damned Yankees back home" doesn't really hack it. I suspect NK are mindful of the impact they have on SK populations, not just their own. In fact, possibly more so, since NK people presumably think what they are permitted to think. It appears from all reports, including the excellent one from the BBC's John Sweeney ("it's mad and bad and sad, all at the same time"), as if zero outside-world news reaches the NK street. He only heard about the current round of threats by phoning his wife from the hotel!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22003715
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    (Original post by Thomas2)
    I can't help wondering what China's involvement, if any, in this whole affair is.
    It seems unlikely that NK would be going so far without some form of approval from at least some people in the Chinese government.
    Could China be presenting a moderate view to the world whilst secretly backing and encouraging NK with a view to finding out the international community's responses and resolve if it ever decides to pursue an expansionist policy in the future? Having said that I doubt if they would want to start a nuclear war at the moment so the above could all just be fanciful musings on my part...
    From all that I've read to date, I seriously doubt that China have greenlighted any of this, I suspect they are furious about it - and some analysts are saying China have cut off oil and food supplies to NK, which may be an additional explanation of their (North Korea's) latest tantrums, since in the past they have (regrettably) obtained additional aid by making dire threats, at least in their own minds. It's incredibly hard to think that even a semi-rational Chinese oligarchy would subscribe to this kind of mad behaviour by Kim.

    On the other hand, China obviously wants to retain the regime as a 'buffer' between themselves and SK/Japan, mad though that policy may seem to rational people.
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    (Original post by Thomas2)
    I can't help wondering what China's involvement, if any, in this whole affair is.
    It seems unlikely that NK would be going so far without some form of approval from at least some people in the Chinese government.
    Could China be presenting a moderate view to the world whilst secretly backing and encouraging NK with a view to finding out the international community's responses and resolve if it ever decides to pursue an expansionist policy in the future? Having said that I doubt if they would want to start a nuclear war at the moment so the above could all just be fanciful musings on my part...
    Almost as if North Korea is just a "front country" (i.e. like a front company) for China, hm? Interesting... :holmes:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The satellite photo is deeply funny, but presumably they still have substantial, albeit badly lit, military bases to hit.

    Yes, of course the bellicosity is connected to the US/SK exercizes and of course they come out with this every time they happen - my point is that it is seemingly more intense this time, which must as I said raise the concern that they will have to follow through with some real action, as just telling their population "oh we pushed the damned Yankees back home" doesn't really hack it. I suspect NK are mindful of the impact they have on SK populations, not just their own. In fact, possibly more so, since NK people presumably think what they are permitted to think. It appears from all reports, including the excellent one from the BBC's John Sweeney ("it's mad and bad and sad, all at the same time"), as if zero outside-world news reaches the NK street. He only heard about the current round of threats by phoning his wife from the hotel!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22003715
    Yeah, I saw that. Amusing and pathetic at the same time.

    And yes, there is a distinct element of 'boy who cries Wolf' about it all, too. But perhaps it is all just The Young Fat One's way of proving himself. Yes it's what "they always used to do" but it's his first time at it.

    "just telling their population "oh we pushed the damned Yankees back home" doesn't really hack it"

    Why not? Who's going to check up on it? He could tell the NK people that they landed on the Moon and they'd believe him. It wouldn't hack it for us, because we've got free press (for all the complaints about the Mail, about NewsCorp, about the BBC... they are at least free to print their opinion), but they don't. They have state media and that's it. They could easily manage it.
 
 
 
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