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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    And seeing as how that isn't a practice that all gay people engage in, nor is it limited to gay people, it isn't a relevant or valid argument against gay people.
    We have no real way of proving or disproving this - but it is strongly associated with homosexuals.

    I wasn't using it as an argument in any way though - just me saying I dislike the practice.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    So a gay son would be a disgrace? I'm just asking.

    Something people keep seeming to forget is that the preferences of some parents for straight children or otherwise has no actual bearing on their children's sexuality. It's worth thinking through the implications of that.
    No it would be embarrassing, especially if they were one of those overly flamboyant gay men who are uber-feminine and walk around with a handbag with this diva attitude. If he was a normal gay man then it would be easier to accept.
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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    Don't accept it then, just beat him with his handbag until he grows some balls and fights back like a man!
    The thing is I don't actually hate gay dudes, they're really nice people, much nicer than Lesbians at least. They're the only people that literally have no problem with anyone. I just wouldn't be comfortable if my son started behaving or acting all feminine, even if he was straight.
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    I just wouldn't be comfortable if my son started behaving or acting all feminine, even if he was straight.
    I know, I agree.

    Had a reasonable sized discussion about this issue in another similar thread but the topic was removed as people were sidetracking too much away from the main topic.
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    The thing is I don't actually hate gay dudes, they're really nice people, much nicer than Lesbians at least. They're the only people that literally have no problem with anyone. I just wouldn't be comfortable if my son started behaving or acting all feminine, even if he was straight.
    Much nicer than lesbians? I'm sorry do you personally know any? Because by the sounds of it, you're stereotyping and really don't have a clue. To say that all lesbians aren't nice is quite frankly ignorant and childish. May I suggest you grow up some time soon and actually just accept people for who they are. Get over yourself.


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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    We have no real way of proving or disproving this - but it is strongly associated with homosexuals.

    I wasn't using it as an argument in any way though - just me saying I dislike the practice.
    I can prove it now, lesbians don't have anal sex (and even if they do try something anal it certainly isn't with a penis is it?). Doesn't matter how strongly associated it is, unless it applies universally and exclusively it can't be an argument against gay people, it can only be an argument against some gay people and some straight people (the ones that practice it).

    The person you quoted appeared to be looking for valid arguments against gay people when you responded with the post I quoted, therefore I assumed you must be using it as an argument.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    How unfortunate for the Church of England.
    I'm not a member of the Church of England.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    I can prove it now, lesbians don't have anal sex (and even if they do try something anal it certainly isn't with a penis is it?). Doesn't matter how strongly associated it is, unless it applies universally and exclusively it can't be an argument against gay people, it can only be an argument against some gay people and some straight people (the ones that practice it).
    Like I said, it wasn't an argument per se, it was my opinion.

    And I was obviously talking about homosexual men only. Not lesbians.

    And of course it matters how strongly associated it is - its one of those kind of questions, "tell me what comes to your mind when I say the word..."

    It will be in there somewhere.

    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    The person you quoted appeared to be looking for valid arguments against gay people when you responded with the post I quoted, therefore I assumed you must be using it as an argument.
    Who did I quote anyway? I don't remember.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm not a member of the Church of England.
    If you're an Anglican but not CofE, presumably you're not in the UK?

    Out of curiosity, what are you studying?
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    No it would be embarrassing, especially if
    What would be embarrassing would be having a homophobic father. It's not something most people would admit to, so I have some sympathy for your future presumable gay son.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    What would be embarrassing would be having a homophobic father. It's not something most people would admit to, so I have some sympathy for your future presumable gay son.
    Depends who exactly would be embarrassed by it.

    Embarrassing to the son maybe, but not the father - he probably couldn't care less.
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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    Depends who exactly would be embarrassed by it.

    Embarrassing to the son maybe, but not the father - he probably couldn't care less.
    Why anyone would deliberately choose to be a disgrace and an embarrassment to their children is almost beyond contemplation. That's pretty much what you are if you're a homophobic parent.

    Also, clearly the language of someone who doesn't actually have children, so it's all pretty theoretical.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Why anyone would deliberately choose to be a disgrace and an embarrassment to their children is almost beyond contemplation.
    This is all completely theoretical and probably going too far off track from the main OP question.

    There are many factors, but for one it will depend also how old the parent/child is, considering a child is not an adult until it reaches 18, then it will have to (in theory) abide by whatever the parent says.

    If the parent disagrees with gays, at the end of the day, they are still the parent.

    Likewise, if the parent agrees with homosexuality but the child chooses not to, the parent is still the parent.
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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    This is all completely theoretical and probably going too far off track from the main OP question.

    There are many factors, but for one it will depend also how old the parent/child is, considering a child is not an adult until it reaches 18, then it will have to (in theory) abide by whatever the parent says.

    If the parent disagrees with gays, at the end of the day, they are still the parent.

    Likewise, if the parent agrees with homosexuality but the child chooses not to, the parent is still the parent.
    Yes, once the child is 18, they're an adult and have far more freedom to express who they are, but they still have to live in the knowing their parent doesn't respect them for who they are or support them in the life they lead.

    And you're saying you'd be okay in the knowing that any gay child you may have in the future, would have to live in the knowing they don't have the support of their parent. That feeling doesn't change when you turn 18.

    Being gay is generally a burden because people have the same attitude as you and don't respect them as people. Someone doesn't choose to be gay, it's just who they are. When someone chooses to express that, it's incredibly brave. On the other hand, someone does choose to be homophobic. That isn't brave, it's just ignorant.


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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    There are many factors, but for one it will depend also how old the parent/child is, considering a child is not an adult until it reaches 18, then it will have to (in theory) abide by whatever the parent says
    Certainly not whatever the parent says. Aside from the fact that the parents' opinion on what they'd prefer has no actual bearing on their child's sexual orientation, trying to forcibly change their child's sexual orientation could be construed as child abuse.

    If the parent disagrees with gays, at the end of the day, they are still the parent.
    I'm just curious about this whole "disagrees" terminology. I have to emphasise again that a parent's preference for their child has no actual bearing on what sexual orientation their child has, they are completely independent factors. So you can perhaps understand why it's so incredibly unfair on a child who hasn't chosen a particular sexuality to be so cruelly rejected for something that's innate.

    From my own personal experience, my boyfriend's parents have a problem with his sexuality and say they don't accept it. What I find astonishing is that despite the fact that he's easily in the top 1% of lawyers in England & Wales (considering the set he practices at), he's sensible, normal, in a committed relationship, intending to marry and have children, and he's happy... they somehow think it's reasonable to feel disappointed with how he turned out.

    They're incredibly misguided, and they've completely alienated not just him but his brother and sister (the latter of whom has agreed to donate an egg, to be implanted in a surrogate, so our future child will be genetically related to both of us). They're basically cutting themselves out of their own family, and it's mind-boggling considering they have such unbelievably clever, happy, successful, frankly quite lovely children. Sometimes it's hard to believe they're related at all.

    So my point is... it's cruel. No child chooses their sexuality, and nothing the parent thinks or wishes has any bearing on what that sexuality is... so it's just pointless and hurtful. Imho.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I am an ordained Anglican deacon who will likely be elevated to the priesthood later this yaer. I don't care what the law says today or how it might change years from now. I will NEVER conduct a gay marriage.
    And even though I support gay marriage (and have a gay brother for that matter) I support your right to not perform a same sex marriage. Not my place to tell people what they can and can't do.
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    (Original post by ufo2012)
    This is all completely theoretical and probably going too far off track from the main OP question.

    There are many factors, but for one it will depend also how old the parent/child is, considering a child is not an adult until it reaches 18, then it will have to (in theory) abide by whatever the parent says.

    If the parent disagrees with gays, at the end of the day, they are still the parent.

    Likewise, if the parent agrees with homosexuality but the child chooses not to, the parent is still the parent.
    The state nor the law gives parents the bounds to treat their children however they wish.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Certainly not whatever the parent says. Aside from the fact that the parents' opinion on what they'd prefer has no actual bearing on their child's sexual orientation, trying to forcibly change their child's sexual orientation could be construed as child abuse.
    You're going beyond anything I said though.

    I was not referring to any of that, especially not forcing them to change - I meant that while the child was under the parent's roof the child would have to abide by their rules.

    If that means the parent doesn't like the homosexuality element then the child will just have to learn to keep that in check until they are an adult and if it still causes problems then it is time for them to move out.

    Sure it can cause problems for both parties, but not everyone will accept gays and this will include some parents.

    (Original post by JoffreyBaratheon)
    The state nor the law gives parents the bounds to treat their children however they wish.
    See the above regarding the same issue.


    All of this is getting away from the OP question though - this isn't a thread about parenting and I don't want to keep us going off course.
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    I personally wouldn't care if someone is gay, its their choice at the end of the day, it has no consequential relevance to me. GL to them, life to short to be unhappy.
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    The thing is I don't actually hate gay dudes, they're really nice people, much nicer than Lesbians at least. They're the only people that literally have no problem with anyone. I just wouldn't be comfortable if my son started behaving or acting all feminine, even if he was straight.
    What about these big butch gay professional rugby/American football players?
 
 
 
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