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    (Original post by ssxx)

    Please gets your facts right, it depends how it is measured.

    Finnish schools are not more advanced in maths and science standards than some of the Asian countries.

    Finnish people do not excel in maths and science in the world.
    Have you seen the standards of the Chinese or the japs?


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6589301.stm
    If education is measured by the world education index I have no how it is measured.

    You seem to be blinded by the notion that Asian students stereotypical excel at maths, I must ask you for some stats.

    For maths and science, Finland is second only to South Korea, followed swiftly by mainly western countries. Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...cience-reading

    For maths, Finland lags only Hong Kong. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html
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    (Original post by pjm600)
    If education is measured by the world education index I have no how it is measured.

    You seem to be blinded by the notion that Asian students stereotypical excel at maths, I must ask you for some stats.

    For maths and science, Finland is second only to South Korea, followed swiftly by mainly western countries. Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...cience-reading

    For maths, Finland lags only Hong Kong. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html
    You are missing the point!
    they are also including people who cannot read or write due to poverty such as in India, therefore the numbers come down for India.

    but if you compared the people in india who can read and write only and did a maths test with people from Finland, you will find Indian students will excel.

    You don't understand statistics well.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20664752 here is another example how statistics can be misleading.
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    (Original post by ssxx)
    You are missing the point!
    they are also including people who cannot read or write due to poverty such as in India, therefore the numbers come down for India.

    but if you compared the people in india who can read and write only and did a maths test with people from Finland, you will find Indian students will excel.

    You don't understand statistics well.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20664752 here is another example how statistics can be misleading.
    So don't take the average value for a country, take the best of one country and compare it to the average of another, what would that achieve?

    Can you even give any evidence for that claim or is it wild conjecture?

    How does that show stats to be misleading? It's comparing primary school education, I thought we were talking about those approaching university.

    Thank you for telling me I don't understand stats, again with no basis.
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    (Original post by pjm600)
    So don't take the average value for a country, take the best of one country and compare it to the average of another, what would that achieve?

    Can you even give any evidence for that claim or is it wild conjecture?

    How does that show stats to be misleading? It's comparing primary school education, I thought we were talking about those approaching university.

    Thank you for telling me I don't understand stats, again with no basis.
    It is unfair to take the average, because you are not considering other factors such as poverty!

    So you take the best students from Finland, and the best from India and china and the Asians would be better in maths and science.
    I seen many maths olympiad winners from China but not from Finland.
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    (Original post by Sheldor)
    So...from one person...on the internet? I've seen state school pupils here perpetuate the stereotypical "chav" image, but that doesn't form my opinion on them all. For one thing, this is the internet-people exaggerate, make things up, are taken out of context etc. Also, you get horrible/rude/insertstatementhere people in every school, so you can't make an opinion on one person.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    And the also earlier posts which state that state school students should 'work harder'. Something that has been present in the arguments of almost all private school arguments in this thread.
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    (Original post by Sheldor)
    So...from one person...on the internet? I've seen state school pupils here perpetuate the stereotypical "chav" image, but that doesn't form my opinion on them all. For one thing, this is the internet-people exaggerate, make things up, are taken out of context etc. Also, you get horrible/rude/insertstatementhere people in every school, so you can't make an opinion on one person.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The fact that there is a 'chav' image in itself perfectly illustrates the derogatory (somewhat snobbish) view with which state schools are portrayed.
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    (Original post by ssxx)
    It is unfair to take the average, because you are not considering other factors such as poverty!

    So you take the best students from Finland, and the best from India and china and the Asians would be better in maths and science.
    I seen many maths olympiad winners from China but not from Finland.
    Okay, I concede there are more maths Olympiad winners from China than there are from Finland, but that doesn't mean their overall education system is better, which was the topic. The average takes into account all variable, and yes, poverty does have a direct impact on education, but to discount the effects of it would be unjustifiable as it shows an element of a failed education system.

    Overall, from the stats presented so far, the Finish education system seems to be the best for all-round education.
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    Don't know if anyone has already said this, but there's no point banning private schools unless you're going to ban private tutors, and anything else that you can spend money on to get a better education.

    I don't like private schools in general but I don't see how you can ban private schools in a capitalist society.
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    (Original post by Johnathon16)
    And the also earlier posts which state that state school students should 'work harder'. Something that has been present in the arguments of almost all private school arguments in this thread.
    No it hasn't...:lolwut:. If you mean the "anyone can get wherever they want if they work for it" ideal, that's less private school snobbery and more optimism and faith in the system.

    (Original post by Johnathon16)
    The fact that there is a 'chav' image in itself perfectly illustrates the derogatory (somewhat snobbish) view with which state schools are portrayed.
    1. The "chav" idea has never been used to describe state school pupils as a body. Only working class young people, or rather anyone that fits that stereotype.
    2.Even by numbers, more state school pupils call other individual/subgroups of state school pupils chavs than private school pupils say state school pupils as a body are chavs.
    3. "Chav" is not a term exclusive to state school pupils

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    I went to a terrible state school but I wouldn't ban private schools as I wouldn't want to send my child to a state school. The best options would be to bring back the grammar school system.


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    As much as I agree in ways with what your saying, public schooling, particuarly primary schooling, needs to be resolved first. How is it fair that the gap between the lowest performing secondary and primary public schools, to the AVERAGE of public schools of both types, can be massive. 5 GSCE's at C-A* ranges from a low of about 35% to 98% - and its not like the funding from these 98% places is redistributed - no, the 35% places gradually raise to say 50%, then overtime run out of funding and require more. Meanwhile, places with 98% or so pass rates, continue to receieve unrequired funding. If the national average is 70%, then how is it acceptable to have schools with 35% rates ? see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...l-results.html for evidence.

    If its not fair to start off with, making it fair at university only makes it fair for those who had it good, with some exceptions, originally.
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    (Original post by Johnathon16)
    I can tell you go to a private school from your entirely unfounded comment that 'students at private schools work harder.' Can I ask 1 how you think know that? And 2 how on earth do you justify that?
    We get higher grades and results
    And we don't jump with joy at "passing" AKA E,D,C grades, which I saw on a program along the lines of "educated in essex" or something... a girl got a D-grade which was the highest in her class... and she was HAPPY?!
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    (Original post by iLoveMyCatsx)
    We get higher grades and results
    And we don't jump with joy at "passing" AKA E,D,C grades, which I saw on a program along the lines of "educated in essex" or something... a girl got a D-grade which was the highest in her class... and she was HAPPY?!
    lol gotta agree with this to some extent
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    (Original post by iLoveMyCatsx)
    We get higher grades and results
    And we don't jump with joy at "passing" AKA E,D,C grades, which I saw on a program along the lines of "educated in essex" or something... a girl got a D-grade which was the highest in her class... and she was HAPPY?!
    Just because some comprehensive schools are quite poor doesn't mean they all are.

    I got to a comprehensive school and 95% of the Year 11s got either A* or A in GCSE Maths last year, two students even did AS Maths early and both of them got A. The other 5% got B and C, and surprisingly no one got under a C.

    It's not the type of school, it's how ​the school teaches.
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    why not just improve the state schools
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    personally there isn't much difference between state schools and private schools.
    i attended a private school for the first 3 years of my education and as someone else has already mentioned, there much more strict, which is why students end up with better grades, the quality of education provided is exactly the same, everyone is taught is the same way.

    only few differences are that you do unfortunately have kids who don't want to be in a classroom and will mess around and distract teachers from teaching in a state school, but as long as you just put your head down and get on with your work then your grades wont be different from a child or teenager at private school!
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    (Original post by iLoveMyCatsx)
    We get higher grades and results
    And we don't jump with joy at "passing" AKA E,D,C grades, which I saw on a program along the lines of "educated in essex" or something... a girl got a D-grade which was the highest in her class... and she was HAPPY?!
    hold on a second, you are attempting to generalise your judgements upon state schools by a program you saw on the television called 'educated in essex.' A television program, which is designed to entertain people and will of course deliberately have chosen a certain school for entertainment value.
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    (Original post by Sheldor)
    No it hasn't...:lolwut:. If you mean the "anyone can get wherever they want if they work for it" ideal, that's less private school snobbery and more optimism and faith in the system.



    1. The "chav" idea has never been used to describe state school pupils as a body. Only working class young people, or rather anyone that fits that stereotype.
    2.Even by numbers, more state school pupils call other individual/subgroups of state school pupils chavs than private school pupils say state school pupils as a body are chavs.
    3. "Chav" is not a term exclusive to state school pupils

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    oh that's alright as long as you are negatively generalising all of the working class youth, I suppose that is fine. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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    I think the idea that Private schools have better teachers isnt entirely true, my history teacher went to private school in Manchester, and when I asked why private school students tend to do better, its more because of the influence of rich parents, teaching their children manners and not to be disruptive etc. Rather than the quality of teaching, she also said that teachers at the local comprehensive im at, are generally even better than private school teachers.

    However, local comprehensives are probably at most disadvantaged mainly because of disruptive lessons, bad behavior etc etc. If every local comprehensive classroom was silent and disruption free, education on a whole would be entirely better.

    She referred to her old history teacher drawing pictures on the blackboard, sitting in his chair and talking about them for entire lessons.

    The current generation, from my own personal experience, questions teachers alot more, talks back to them, an example being a while ago my R.E teacher was talking about religion, and someone asked him what religion he was. He said he didnt want to say, and that caused a load of responses from everyone in the class.

    I think currently, there isnt enough respect for teachers, but the teachers are in some cases at fault themselves, as well as those whom employ them.

    In all honesty, sending a new teacher who comes across as quite shy, doesnt seem to show much authority, will just get picked apart by a disruptive class, and nothing will ever be learned.
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    (Original post by Johnathon16)
    oh that's alright as long as you are negatively generalising all of the working class youth, I suppose that is fine. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
    Pfft, where did I say that it was ok? I said it wasn't used just by private school students,it isn't used to describe all state school students and it doesn't "apply" to all state school students. I get the feeling from you that you have this negative view of a huge group of people that you don't want to let go of so you try to reassure the view with every negative possible.

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