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Bakery refuses to make "gay cake"; faces legal action Watch

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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Yes
    So I take it you're a straight white male with no disabilities.
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    So I take it you're a straight white male with no disabilities.
    No a (once active and open) Bi-Sexual White(irish) Male with disabilities.

    I simply support business owner rights to extreme degrees.
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    It doesn't seem clear to me that they refused service because of the customer's sexuality. If the customer had been ordering a normal cake and said, "oh and just so you know, I'm gay," I doubt the bakery would have refused the order. It's not customer discrimination, it's order discrimination - I think they should be allowed to refuse to bake that cake the same as if the order had been for a cake that said "Stealing is fun" or some other statement the bakery had a moral objection to.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    I'm not personally religious. I just don't think the bakery was discriminating against someone on the basis of their sexuality.
    You're missing the point - there is no actual scriptural basis in Christianity for an anti-gay attitude. Therefore the bakery should not have refused to make the cake.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    No a (once active and open) Bi-Sexual White(irish) Male with disabilities.

    I simply support business owner rights to extreme degrees.
    Then you would be OK with



    But the law is against you so unless you get the the law changed you are wrong.
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    Then you would be OK with
    Heh I was actually thinking of that sign as I wrote the reply.

    But yes I would be.

    But the law is against you so unless you get the the law changed you are wrong.
    Nice to know the law is Objectively correct, im sure that will settle a few age old philosophical questions.

    That's a dangerous way to think though, go back fifty years and you would be supporting Jewish Genocide with that worldview.

    You don't really have a leg to stand on in most of your anti-islamic debates either if that's the view you take.
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    Yes, they should be sued. There is no scriptural basis for homophobia and the like in the Bible.
    But if there were they shouldn't be sued?

    What's the Bible got to do with the law of the land?
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Heh I was actually thinking of that sign as I wrote the reply.

    But yes I would be.
    We'll on your behalf and on behalf of all the Irish that were discrimintated against and all the people of colour and all the people with disabilities I'm rather glad the law is the way it is

    as I'm sure are they.
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    I disagree with their actions. They should have taken the order and got their money and moved on. They're a business and I think they got too personal. They provide a service and should have provided it.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Heh I was actually thinking of that sign as I wrote the reply.

    But yes I would be.

    Nice to know the law is Objectively correct, im sure that will settle a few age old philosophical questions.
    That's a dangerous way to think though, go back fifty years and you would be supporting Jewish Genocide with that worldview.
    You don't really have a leg to stand on in most of your anti-islamic debates either if
    that's the view you take.
    You advocate people being excluded based on factors beyond their control?
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    (Original post by anonymouspie227)
    You advocate people being excluded based on factors beyond their control?
    I advocate a business owners right to serve whoever they like or not serve for whatever reason, whether that reason by religious, political or ideological in nature

    It's a free market, there are plenty of Cake Designers who will make their cake and make it in whatever manner they like, whether that be supporting Gay Marriage or supporting the extermination of the Jewish race.
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    The difference here is not that they were refusing to bake a cake to a customer because they were gay, but that they were refusing to create a piece of writing that supported something they didn't.
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    (Original post by anonymouspie227)
    You advocate people being excluded based on factors beyond their control?
    It's not factors beyond their control though that are the issue here. The bakers did not refuse to bake the cake because the customers were gay, they refused to bake the cake because they didn't agree with what was going to be written on it.
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    You're missing the point - there is no actual scriptural basis in Christianity for an anti-gay attitude. Therefore the bakery should not have refused to make the cake.
    Just because someone's beliefs are silly and unfounded doesn't alter the fact that they are legitimate and honestly-held beliefs.

    You can't just go around telling people that their religious opinions are wrong and that they ought to believe something else, unfortunately.
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    (Original post by miser)
    It doesn't seem clear to me that they refused service because of the customer's sexuality. If the customer had been ordering a normal cake and said, "oh and just so you know, I'm gay," I doubt the bakery would have refused the order. It's not customer discrimination, it's order discrimination - I think they should be allowed to refuse to bake that cake the same as if the order had been for a cake that said "Stealing is fun" or some other statement the bakery had a moral objection to.
    I posted this before but people have ignored it.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Yet numerous web-hosting companies and web-designers have refused to work for or host white-supremacists site Stormfront and other related groups.
    Probably because their profits would be hugely affected as a result, which comes under the legal reasons for denying service someone mentioned above.
    Baking a cake that says "support gay marriage" is not going to put your cake making business in jeopardy.
    Building the website for the KKK, however, almost certainly will.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Just because someone's beliefs are silly and unfounded doesn't alter the fact that they are legitimate and honestly-held beliefs.

    You can't just go around telling people that their religious opinions are wrong and that they ought to believe something else, unfortunately.
    The bakery owners are free to believe whatever they like, they just can't let their bigotry influence their business practices in a discriminatory way. The law that makes their discrimination illegal does not make the discriminatory belief itself illegal.
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    (Original post by betaglucowhat)
    The bakery owners are free to believe whatever they like, they just can't let their bigotry influence their business practices in a discriminatory way. The law that makes their discrimination illegal does not make the discriminatory belief itself illegal.
    What illegal discrimination did the cake shop show?
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    You're missing the point - there is no actual scriptural basis in Christianity for an anti-gay attitude. Therefore the bakery should not have refused to make the cake.
    What makes you think that they were being anti-gay?
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    (Original post by limetang)
    It's not factors beyond their control though that are the issue here. The bakers did not refuse to bake the cake because the customers were gay, they refused to bake the cake because they didn't agree with what was going to be written on it.
    And the law did not prohibit gay people from getting married because they were gay, it stopped any two people of the same sex from getting married whether they were gay or straight. Gay people were still free to marry people of the opposite sex and straight people could not marry people of the same sex.

    Note that this is an actual argument used by bigots to defend gay marriage bans as nondiscriminatory, and the same argument people are using in this thread to support discriminatory business practices.

    If a blanket prohibition or action that applies to everyone only really affects a subset of the population that shares a protected character then it is discriminatory.
 
 
 
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