Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    Israel is actively targeting Gaza, which also includes civilian buildings. Nowhere under international law is Israel allowed to do that.

    See? All I had to do was copy paste your righteous little excerpt and replace 'Israel' with 'Hamas' and it's still makes as sense as ever it did, indeed perhaps even more than it previously did.
    Hamas hasn't the equipment Israel has to boast of accurate pot-shots at Israeli military stations. You are again making use of the correlation-causation fallacy.

    Yeah, no. As you've been told repeatedly, Israel warns civilians before it bombs targets near civilians. Furthermore, Israel isn't bombing Gaza indiscriminately unlike Hamas.

    Just because Hamas doesn't have the equipment to abide by International Law does not mean it gets a get out of jail free card. It shouldn't have begun in the first place, if it couldn't ensure it would only strike military targets.

    If Hamas is so weak and doesn't have the equipment, it should stop with its attacks altogether. It can't keep blaming Israel for its own insufficiencies.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    I am far from employing hyperbole. I am not acquainted with the international law you quote so I have to take your word for it, which needless to say I will not, so I have little to say to you other than what I do know about international law, and that is that is certainly does not legalise the killing of Palestinian civilians, no matter if they're notified or not. International organisations have made that unanimously abundantly clear regarding what is currently going on; you can ignore/deny it as much as you like, but it just simply stands.
    What I'm saying is that Israel would not be legally culpable because they did all they could to notify civilians.

    The focus on Israel seems to be greater than on any other nations. I do not see the BBC camped outside Afghan hospitals showing the injured after a British/NATO strike. Or do you believe they only kill baddies?

    There's a media campaign happening and it's whipping up people like you into a frenzy, when more civilians have died in Ukraine. In Europe more people are dying yet the focus is on Israel and it's been headline everyday on the BBC.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    Hamas would beg to differ with the Zionist take on its objective.

    Hamas called for a ceasefire on terms they judged would better livelihood in Gaza. Israel rejected that.

    Hamas is in NO position to be deciding on the terms of the ceasefire considering it is the losing side. If Hamas cared for its civilians, it would recognize that it must agree to the terms set out by Israel rather than continue with its ludicrous demands at the expense of more Gazan casualties. I guess Palestinian life is cheap to Hamas, and it can continue to demand things it has no place demanding.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    Summary of the conflict:

    Muslims lost 1967, and now think they can dictate terms.

    UN Security Council Res. 242 confirms that Israel is to keep the territories captured in the 6 Day-War, and is only to give back some or all of them in return for peace and security. Funnily "the Palestinians" aren't even mentioned in this, as such an identity didnt exist prior to the 70's. The West Bank was a part of Jordan and Gaza was a part of Egypt.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by miavdbt)

    Hamas is in NO position to be deciding on the terms of the ceasefire considering it is the losing side. If Hamas cared for its civilians, it would recognize that it must agree to the terms set out by Israel rather than continue with its ludicrous demands at the expense of more Gazan casualties. I guess Palestinian life is cheap to Hamas, and it can continue to demand things it has no place demanding.
    This is getting rather tedious.
    Hamas is very much part of the conflict, and as such it is essential for Hamas to be part of the negotiations for an end to the conflict.
    This is an old and worn argument, that 'Israel wants peace and Hamas wants war'.
    No one will adopt it who hasn't listened intently to both sides.
    All Israel does is spew endearing rhetoric which leads to nothing but cheers, self-righteous nods and pats on its back from its Zionist supporters.
    No one listens to Hamas. Apparently, according to you and your cronies, Hamas is is no position to talk. Hamas has no right to be part of any negotiations. Hamas shouldn't exist.
    Right... I think with that attitude, it's abundantly apparent who is genuinely looking for a solution, and who wants to doggedly hang onto their privilege.

    Everybody knows that Israel has the upper-hand.
    If Israel was mature and genuine, it would know better than to escalate things for the worse and would use its obvious upper-hand in this conflict to reach a decisive and just end.
    I think it is safe to say from Israel's bloody past and present that Israel is not interested in peace.
    Hamas has perfectly reasonable demands:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
    Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
    Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
    Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
    Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
    International forces on the borders.
    Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
    Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
    Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

    It is obvious that Israel does not want peace.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    Listen, you racist schmuck, I'm not replying to you on purpose, and you're pathetic for trying to get my attention once again. You are a deluded Zionist git, much like the others on here, but to their credit they can at least hold a sensible argument and make sensible comments instead of resort to offensive and irrelevant tactics. This thread is devoted to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not to the conflict in Syria and Iraq. You wretched Zionists, whenever cornered, always grab at anything else that'll distract from the issue at hand. Learn to hold a proper conversation before engaging in a debate or go fück yourself.
    LOL Honestly, don't waste your time with them, they aren't at all rational folk. They'll just recycle the same rubbish pro-Israeli arguments to you that they memorised from ridiculous websites ( answeringpropalestinians.org or something equally unimaginative).
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Israel defends itself with the little dome thing - that's defence.

    Murdering children playing football and bombing houses - that's war.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    LOL Honestly, don't waste your time with them, they aren't at all rational folk. They'll just recycle the same rubbish pro-Israeli arguments to you that they memorised from ridiculous websites ( answeringpropalestinians.org or something equally unimaginative).
    I am neither a Jew nor an Israeli.

    Yeah, and what this guy vomits isnt from some Hamas handbook then, lol
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by miavdbt)

    Hamas is in NO position to be deciding on the terms of the ceasefire considering it is the losing side. If Hamas cared for its civilians, it would recognize that it must agree to the terms set out by Israel rather than continue with its ludicrous demands at the expense of more Gazan casualties. I guess Palestinian life is cheap to Hamas, and it can continue to demand things it has no place demanding.
    This. What is Hamas actually doing to stop civilian deaths? Israel is not only trying to prevent civilian deaths in their own country, but also trying to prevent civilian deaths in Palestine. All Hamas is doing is firing crappy rockets. Hamas needs the ceasefire a lot more than Israel does, yet they want to continue it knowing that more of their people are going to die. Hamas deliberately operates in civilian areas because they don't care about civilian deaths. They use their civilians as shields against Israel and then when innocent civilians die, use it as a media opportunity to demonize Israel.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rlove95)
    This. What is Hamas actually doing to stop civilian deaths? Israel is not only trying to prevent civilian deaths in their own country, but also trying to prevent civilian deaths in Palestine. All Hamas is doing is firing crappy rockets. Hamas needs the ceasefire a lot more than Israel does, yet they want to continue it knowing that more of their people are going to die. Hamas deliberately operates in civilian areas because they don't care about civilian deaths. They use their civilians as shields against Israel and then when innocent civilians die, use it as a media opportunity to demonize Israel.
    :toofunny:

    And what happens after Hamas agrees to a ceasefire? Business as usual: Israeli raids on homes every other day, Israeli oppression as usual, arrests and reprehensible treatment of Gazans, and the list goes on and on, and, most importantly, the blockade operated on the Gaza strip, the reason why life in Gaza is horrible and cannot be bettered, continues, with no end in sight.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Israel defends itself with the little dome thing - that's defence.

    Murdering children playing football and bombing houses - that's war.
    Thank you
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    LOL Honestly, don't waste your time with them, they aren't at all rational folk. They'll just recycle the same rubbish pro-Israeli arguments to you that they memorised from ridiculous websites ( answeringpropalestinians.org or something equally unimaginative).
    You've not added much to this debate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    :toofunny:

    And what happens after Hamas agrees to a ceasefire? Business as usual: Israeli raids on homes every other day, Israeli oppression as usual, arrests and reprehensible treatment of Gazans, .
    Well this is complete and utter bull.

    Israel is not in Gaza. Israel does not arrest Gazans.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    Well its obvious that Israel should not withdraw from the West Bank, or it will too be used as a launching pad for rockets supplied by Syria and Iran
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    :toofunny:

    And what happens after Hamas agrees to a ceasefire? Business as usual: Israeli raids on homes every other day, Israeli oppression as usual, arrests and reprehensible treatment of Gazans, and the list goes on and on, and, most importantly, the blockade operated on the Gaza strip, the reason why life in Gaza is horrible and cannot be bettered, continues, with no end in sight.
    But whats going to happen if the ceasefire doesn't happen? There are going to be more deaths, mostly on the Palestinian side. Hamas is out of their depth, more and more rockets are being fired at Israel that are just struck down by Iron Dome. Hamas isn't going to achieve nothing by continued fighting since Israel is perfectly capable of defending its citizens, Hamas on the otherhand doesn't necessarily care enough about its citizens to actually think of ways to protect them, most of the time they are actively putting them in harms way by using civilian areas for their operations. They are basically usually their civilians as human shields. If Israel was fighting the way Hamas is fighting, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot more casualties on the Israeli side.

    Also you have to take into account the fact that Hamas purposely target civilian areas in order to kill as many Israelites as possible, they actually celebrate the deaths of Israeli people whereas Israel is purposely trying to prevent the deaths that are happening, they are doing all they possibly can to warn civilians beforehand.

    I don't condone Israel's actions, I don't condone all these deaths, but stop acting like Hamas is the victim because it is not. Just because Israel is defending itself better than Hamas is, doesn't mean that Israel is the big baddie and Hamas is the helpless victim because that is not the case at all.

    I also wonder if a lot of you would be supporting Hamas if Hamas wasn't an Islamic government and Palestinians weren't mostly Muslim.

    Can I also add that putting a laughing emoticon before your reply doesn't make my post any less credible.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    Oh look, a Hamas supporter. I'll pretend not to be disgusted as much as id be at someone justifying ISIS or Al Qaeda.

    1) We know Hamas is under no obligation to stop firing Iranian supplied rockets at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, their existence is to kill Jews as written in their charter. Oh, and no obligation either to stop using the Palestinian people as HUMAN SHIELDS. A Palestinian child being killed is good headlines for them, nothing more.

    2) This ceasefire was not some chit chat on twitter. It was a formal proposal endorsed by the Arab League, the U.S. and the UN.

    3) A loser does not set terms. Have you watched the movie "Downfall" which is about the Soviets going into Berlin in 1945? the soviet general almost laughed when the Germans asked for a conditional ceasefire.

    3) Between 2005-2007 when the PA had Gaza under their control, there was no blockade by Israel and Egypt. The blockade came because Hamas came to power and imported missiles, turning Gaza into an Iranian launching pad for rockets. What kind of country would allow a terrorist group to have free movement and smuggle more weapons in? their terms are reasonable if you hate Israel.

    4) The main aggressor is not Israel when Hamas started this by firing 350 rockets at Israeli cities, 3 weeks prior to the Israel finally reacting. Hamas is an aggressor against both Israel and the Palestinians.

    Israel uses weapons to defend its civilians. Hamas uses its civilians to defend its weapons.
    How convenient of you to ignore my post about hamas NOT using human shields and IDF USING human shields

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    When Israeli forces ask Palestinians in Gaza to evacuate their homes, where would they like them to go? It's 36km, highly populated, and even areas like schools are not safe (even the UN school Al-Fakhoora which was previously bombed with white phosphorus even though Israeli forces knew civilians were taking refuge inside). All the borders are closed. There is literally no escape for civilians, and this is demonstrated in the casualty statistics.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Marco1)
    Yeah right! So I know absolutely nothing of the Arab mentality, never having been to Arab countries, or read about them, or never taken an interest in them or any other peoples with whom I share this planet, or been exposed to any news or documentaries about Arab nations for the last few decades, etc. And yeah, Islam is more egalitarian than Judaism and Christianity. LOL, thanks for the laugh !!
    The fruits of your Islamic egalitarianism are easy to see today, e.g. women walking behind their husbands like good little wives. The level of gender egalitarianism across the Abrahamic religious spectrum is obvious for all to see by their social way of life today and Islam lags conspicuously way behind the others. Oh yeah, and keep blaming Israel and the West for all the problems in the Arab world. You talk one-sided bollix with putdowns thrown in - a sure sign of a polemicist with an unwillingness for sober, warts 'n' all debate. You sound like you've swallowed a Guardian newspaper and regurgitated it like a parrot.
    I dare you to actually read a book instead of claiming that you read them. A little bit of intellectual digging and you will indeed see that the society created by Muhammed and carried on by several of his followers was one of the most egalitarian societies in the world at that time. The concept of a domineering male having power over his wife that you put forward isn't something that is unique to parts of the Arab world and can be seen across the globe and even in our own country. Indeed the Qu'ran does encourage the covering of parts of the female body (not to the extent that some countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia insist upon) in order to protect the female from the male. The fact that an originally well intentioned part of a religion has been distorted for ulterior purposes, in this case to ensure the hegemony of the male in societies that were male dominated before Islam and are still male dominated) also isn't unique to Islam and can be seen within all the Abrahamic religions.

    Actually, if you read the Guardian's current coverage of the conflict instead of just relying on stereotypes and long debunked automatic phrases, you'd find that it is generally in line with the position of most of the mainstream media.

    You don't actually reply to any of the points I made and you just reply with a lot of substance-less waffles. The ironic fact is that it demonstrates the point I was trying to make at the beginning of my first reply that behind the same generic defences of Israel's actions in these offences, there isn't really much to them and so easily crumble in the face of exposure, especially by someone who is merely repeating them and incapable of their own individual reflection.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rlove95)
    But whats going to happen if the ceasefire doesn't happen? There are going to be more deaths, mostly on the Palestinian side. Hamas is out of their depth, more and more rockets are being fired at Israel that are just struck down by Iron Dome. Hamas isn't going to achieve nothing by continued fighting since Israel is perfectly capable of defending its citizens, Hamas on the otherhand doesn't necessarily care enough about its citizens to actually think of ways to protect them, most of the time they are actively putting them in harms way by using civilian areas for their operations. They are basically usually their civilians as human shields. If Israel was fighting the way Hamas is fighting, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot more casualties on the Israeli side.

    Also you have to take into account the fact that Hamas purposely target civilian areas in order to kill as many Israelites as possible, they actually celebrate the deaths of Israeli people whereas Israel is purposely trying to prevent the deaths that are happening, they are doing all they possibly can to warn civilians beforehand.

    I don't condone Israel's actions, I don't condone all these deaths, but stop acting like Hamas is the victim because it is not. Just because Israel is defending itself better than Hamas is, doesn't mean that Israel is the big baddie and Hamas is the helpless victim because that is not the case at all.

    I also wonder if a lot of you would be supporting Hamas if Hamas wasn't an Islamic government and Palestinians weren't mostly Muslim.

    Can I also add that putting a laughing emoticon before your reply doesn't make my post any less credible.
    'I also wonder if a lot of you would be supporting Hamas if...' etc. well you would do well to wonder stupidly in secret, and, may I ask you, as there is an overwhelming number of non-Muslims who support the Palestinian struggle for justice, do you wonder if they're Jew-hating Christians?

    I put a laughing emoticon because I laughed out loud in real life and to make clear my opinion that your very intellect is questionable.

    Guff, guff, guff, all guff. I do not believe that Israel is doing all it can to prevent civilian deaths. I do not believe an rational person would genuinely believe that Israel is doing all it can to prevent civilian deaths.
    There are many Israelis who celebrate Palestinian deaths. There is a real racism problem in Israel. But because it is convenient to you, you choose to dwell on Hamas's purported Jew-hate, and I don't believe Hamas hates Jews either. Hamas has reasonable expectations of Israel. Israel very obviously doesn't want peace. Hamas is not responsible for Israeli killings. Hamas is a victim because Hamas is resistance. Hamas wants better lives for Palestinians in Gaza, as its demands tell. Israel does not want better lives for Palestinians in Gaza. Israel can sacrifice one or two odd Israelis who get struck by Hamas rockets, and Israel has no qualms about hundreds and thousands of Palestinians killed, imprisoned and oppressed by it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chindits)
    Well this is complete and utter bull.

    Israel is not in Gaza. Israel does not arrest Gazans.
    Does too; do your homework.
    Also, blockade conveniently overlooked.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 8, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.