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-Native Briton-
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#221
(Original post by Viceroy)
First of all, Africa isn't 'a culture.' It contains 1.1 billion people, 54 countries, 9 territories, and 2 independent states. Over 3,000 languages are spoken on the continent. There are thousands of cultures identifiable on that continent. Calling it 'a culture' only draws further attention to your ignorance about the place and its people.

Second, Africans are not uncivilized -- Humanitarian atrocities happen there, but they happen everywhere. And Africa is can never be defined as a 'third world culture.' If you take your advice and go back to school or even read a single book about Africa, you will see how incredibly complex, fascinating, and multi-faceted the many cultures contained within Africa are. If you were to read even one book about one facet of Africa, you would see that: try, for instance, Kofi Agawu's fascinating book 'Representing African Music' (2003), which shows that the notion of 'rhythm' for some Sub-Saharan African drumming traditions is completely different than in Western music and drumming patterns are tied in with defining and redefining life's challenges. Music and life are utterly interconnected -- It's a beautiful thing.

You are blinded by a bigotry so wide in dearth that it keeps you from seeing the beauty in the world. I am sorry for you. Only someone whose fallback position is hate would say what you say. Even a blind man would sense the complexity of African cultures. You are not a blind man -- That insults blind people. You are just a bigot.
When he states third world culture he very obviously means the different cultures that come from the third world. Is that difficult to grasp or something ?
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Catholic_
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#222
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#222
(Original post by Viceroy)
First of all, Africa isn't 'a culture.' It contains 1.1 billion people, 54 countries, 9 territories, and 2 independent states. Over 3,000 languages are spoken on the continent. There are thousands of cultures identifiable on that continent. Calling it 'a culture' only draws further attention to your ignorance about the place and its people.

Second, Africans are not uncivilized -- Humanitarian atrocities happen there, but they happen everywhere. And Africa is can never be defined as a 'third world culture.' If you take your advice and go back to school or even read a single book about Africa, you will see how incredibly complex, fascinating, and multi-faceted the many cultures contained within Africa are. If you were to read even one book about one facet of Africa, you would see that: try, for instance, Kofi Agawu's fascinating book 'Representing African Music' (2003), which shows that the notion of 'rhythm' for some Sub-Saharan African drumming traditions is completely different than in Western music and drumming patterns are tied in with defining and redefining life's challenges. Music and life are utterly interconnected -- It's a beautiful thing.

You are blinded by a bigotry so wide in dearth that it keeps you from seeing the beauty in the world. I am sorry for you. Only someone whose fallback position is hate would say what you say. Even a blind man would sense the complexity of African cultures. You are not a blind man -- That insults blind people. You are just a bigot.
Like a typical leftist, you now rant about something which wasn't even raised by me. Haha.


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MrMango
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#223
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#223
When someone calls Africa a county I stop taking them seriously and drift off into my own world.

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Viceroy
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#224
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#224
(Original post by Catholic_)
Like a typical leftist, you now rant about something which wasn't even raised by me. Haha.


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I responded to your statement and quoted directly from something you wrote. Like a typical bigot, you have nothing to say but bile.
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Viceroy
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#225
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
When he states third world culture he very obviously means the different cultures that come from the third world. Is that difficult to grasp or something ?
And he characterized those cultures as 'uncivilized' and 'backwards' and 'behind in every way.' You are picking out one part of what I said to try to delegitimize the entire response. The addition of 'third world' to what he said simply reinforces his belief that Africa is a backwards place; though 'third world' is used to denote African countries in a seemingly-neutral respect (the term is historical, after all), it is also Western-normatizing and delegitimizing, implying that Africa is literally 'third' to 'first and 'second world' countries. It implies, without analysis or sensitivity, that Africa, in its totality, is 'less than.'

Is that difficult to grasp or something?
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(Original post by Viceroy)
I responded to your statement and quoted directly from something you wrote. Like a typical bigot, you have nothing to say but bile.
i have travelled across Africa and African cultures from my experience are not complex
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(Original post by Viceroy)
And he characterized those cultures as 'uncivilized' and 'backwards' and 'behind in every way.' You are picking out one part of what I said to try to delegitimize the entire response. The addition of 'third world' to what he said simply reinforces his belief that Africa is a backwards place; though 'third world' is used to denote African countries in a seemingly-neutral respect (the term is historical, after all), it is also Western-normatizing and delegitimizing, implying that Africa is literally 'third' to 'first and 'second world' countries. It implies, without analysis or sensitivity, that Africa, in its totality, is 'less than.'

Is that difficult to grasp or something?
Africa is third world. Africa is backwards and primitive. i am sorry but that is fact whether you like it or not. And screaming bigot at someone does not change that fact
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MrMango
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#228
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#228
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
Africa is third world. Africa is backwards and primitive. i am sorry but that is fact whether you like it or not. And screaming bigot at someone does not change that fact
Africa is a continent you watch to many red cross adverts mate. There are rich and poor parts.

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Viceroy
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#229
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#229
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
i have travelled across Africa and African cultures from my experience are not complex
Your analytical framework here is undoubtedly one in which you compare African cultures to Western cultures, and attempt to determine if African cultures 'measure up.' This is mistaken because it is predicated on the notion of Western-normativity where Western is 'complex' and anything you cannot understand is 'simple' or 'primitive.' This is obviously a very 1950s/60s anthropological approach -- You look for what is European and non-European, identifying anything of the latter as 'not complex' (you need only look at the work of Jaap Kunst, Marius Schneider, or Alan Merriam to understand this -- These anthropologists consistently called non-Western cultures and peoples 'primitive'). Culture instead should be understood as dynamic and those cultures that are not European should not be seen as 'less than,' but as valuable and complex under their own terms; they should not be compared to Western culture in an attempt to assign value. African cultures have developed over thousands of years and there are facets of them that are totally alien to the Western sensibility -- This does not make them primitive. I already cited one book that examines a slice of African cultures (music) and its dynamism, Kofi Agawu's 2003 book 'Representing African Music,' which, among other things, demonstrates the extraordinary coherence between life and rhythm in African communities. It is highly recommended reading.
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#230
(Original post by MrMango)
Africa is a continent you watch to many red cross adverts mate. There are rich and poor parts.

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Read back at what I wrote. i never said Africa was not a continent.
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-Native Briton-
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#231
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(Original post by Viceroy)
Your analytical framework here is undoubtedly one in which you compare African cultures to Western cultures, and attempt to determine if African cultures 'measure up.' This is mistaken because it is predicated on the notion of Western-normativity where Western is 'complex' and anything you cannot understand is 'simple' or 'primitive.' This is obviously a very 1950s/60s anthropological approach -- You look for what is European and non-European, identifying anything of the latter as 'not complex' (you need only look at the work of Jaap Kunst, Marius Schneider, or Alan Merriam to understand this -- These anthropologists consistently called non-Western cultures and peoples 'primitive'). Culture instead should be understood as dynamic and those cultures that are not European should not be seen as 'less than,' but as valuable and complex under their own terms; they should not be compared to Western culture in an attempt to assign value. African cultures have developed over thousands of years and there are facets of them that are totally alien to the Western sensibility -- This does not make them primitive. I already cited one book that examines a slice of African cultures (music) and its dynamism, Kofi Agawu's 2003 book 'Representing African Music,' which, among other things, demonstrates the extraordinary coherence between life and rhythm in African communities. It is highly recommended reading.
My comment still stands regardless of your citation of a book on African music
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Viceroy
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#232
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#232
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
Africa is third world. Africa is backwards and primitive. i am sorry but that is fact whether you like it or not. And screaming bigot at someone does not change that fact
Africa is called 'third world' because of the division of the world into first, second, and third quadrants during the Cold War to denote the main players in that political situation. Africa was not involved, so it was called 'third world.' The term, however, is often understood as meaning 'less than' and 'primitive'; the term has really injured the reputation of the entire continent... but yes, you are right, it is technically referred to as 'third world,' but that does not make it 'less than' anywhere else.

Africa is not backwards and primitive. That is not a 'fact' to anyone but you, because you are inflexible. It is your thinking that is backwards and primitive.
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Viceroy
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#233
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#233
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
My comment still stands regardless of your citation of a book on African music

My citation was of one book out of thousands; reading one would do you good. Well done for ignoring the rest of what I wrote.
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Catholic_
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#234
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#234
(Original post by Viceroy)
Africa is called 'third world' because of the division of the world into first, second, and third quadrants during the Cold War to denote the main players in that political situation. Africa was not involved, so it was called 'third world.' The term, however, is often understood as meaning 'less than' and 'primitive'; the term has really injured the reputation of the entire continent... but yes, you are right, it is technically referred to as 'third world,' but that does not make it 'less than' anywhere else.

Africa is not backwards and primitive. That is not a 'fact' to anyone but you, because you are inflexible. It is your thinking that is backwards and primitive.
You're an African nationalist spouting denial. Africa is not a tolerant, fair place to live. That's why people are escaping that continent. It has mass human right abuses and violations to this day.

To compare African values to the developed world is ignorant entirely. African values are often bigoted, primitive and self absorbed.

It's almost like saying it's wrong to say the stone age or the gold age was uncivilized and backwards then todays society. Well, it was you would agree. I'm done arguing with somebody too culturally ignorant to understand the cultural predicament of failed nations.


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Viceroy
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(Original post by Catholic_)
You're an African nationalist spouting denial. Africa is not a tolerant, fair place to live. That's why people are escaping that continent. It has mass human right abuses and violations to this day.

To compare African values to the developed world is ignorant entirely. African values are often bigoted, primitive and self absorbed.

It's almost like saying it's wrong to say the stone age or the gold age was uncivilized and backwards then todays society. Well, it was you would agree. I'm done arguing with somebody too culturally ignorant to understand the cultural predicament of failed nations.


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You're flip-flopping between talking about socio-political issues and about culture. They aren't interchangeable schematic concepts. Whitewashing the whole continent and everything that happens there as backwards because there are humanitarian atrocities that happen in Africa is a mistake. There are political, social, and humanitarian problems in parts of Africa, but that does not nullify African cultures as 'primitive,' 'uncivilized,' or 'failed.'

And I'm not a nationalist -- I'm just fair-minded, have read about Africa and African cultures, and care about the countries there and their people.
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Viceroy
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#236
(Original post by Catholic_)
Thanks for proving my point. Comming from somebody who wants white people to give him 10 mil now accusing others of discrimination.

That was my point. No consious, humility or responsibility whatsoever. No class.


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So one person on an online forum condemns an entire continent? Shall I assume that your offensive comments condemn all white people? Or everyone from whatever country you live in?
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barnetlad
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#237
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I feel that one of the ways to recognise the impact of slavery is to seek to prevent and eliminate modern slavery such as people trafficking.
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MrMango
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(Original post by Catholic_)
Thanks for proving my point. Comming from somebody who wants white people to give him 10 mil now accusing others of discrimination.

That was my point. No consious, humility or responsibility whatsoever. No class.


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if you took it seriously LOLzzzz

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-Native Briton-
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#239
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(Original post by Viceroy)
You're flip-flopping between talking about socio-political issues and about culture. They aren't interchangeable schematic concepts. Whitewashing the whole continent and everything that happens there as backwards because there are humanitarian atrocities that happen in Africa is a mistake. There are political, social, and humanitarian problems in parts of Africa, but that does not nullify African cultures as 'primitive,' 'uncivilized,' or 'failed.'

And I'm not a nationalist -- I'm just fair-minded, have read about Africa and African cultures, and care about the countries there and their people.
African culture is primitive though. The vast majority of sub saharan African culture if not all, do not even have a written language
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Viceroy
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#240
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#240
(Original post by -Native Briton-)
African culture is primitive though. The vast majority of sub saharan African culture if not all, do not even have a written language
We've been through this before. African culture is not primitive. I've already explained why and I'm not going to repeat myself.

Africa contains about 1,000-2,000 different languages (about a third of the languages on Earth). If some are not written, that does not mean they are primitive. It actually means that much of the cultural concepts transmitted in those languages would be orally-transmitted, which makes for a fascinatingly intimate connection among generations. So many of these languages, in any form, can communicate ideas and emotions that 'our' languages cannot -- They are far from primitive.
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