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Labour's Exteme Left Shadow Cabinet, no women in top jobs & appoints John McDonnell! watch

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    (Original post by United1892)
    The claim was levelled that left wing Jeremy Corbyn supporters were trying to force the centrists out of the party with rhetoric such as red tories. However my comment was that the centrists had also been making claims about the alice and wonderland politics of the left and these were in fact from people like Mandelson and Blair instead of from people with extremely minimal influence on anything.

    My response was not to the full comment merely the portion that I quoted.
    The centrists have not launched the kind of (peraonal) vitriol online that Corbynites have.

    The way Liz Kendall was treated was just disgusting.

    Let's face it - calling someone a Tory is just the lowest of the low, its designed to hurt and its designed to tell people they don't belong in their own party. Was what Tony Blair said insulting? Sure, a bit, but it wasn't personal insults or telling people to leave the party. The phrase red Tory is divisive on a completely different level.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    The centrists have not launched the kind of (peraonal) vitriol online that Corbynites have.

    The way Liz Kendall was treated was just disgusting.

    Let's face it - calling someone a Tory is just the lowest of the low, its designed to hurt and its designed to tell people they don't belong in their own party. Was what Tony Blair said insulting? Sure, a bit, but it wasn't personal insults or telling people to leave the party. The phrase red Tory is divisive on a completely different level.
    He told people if their heart was with Corbyn they should get a heart transplant.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    He told people if their heart was with Corbyn they should get a heart transplant.


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    That is nowhere near as divisive as literally telling people they don't belong in the party, I'm sorry but it just isn't.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So by attacking all the sentrista you'll force them out and purify the party?! Only the true lefts can contest the Tories?

    Amiright


    Let's just ignore the fact anlot of swing voters loved Tony Blair.

    Can tell you've never been on the doorstep, you have no idea of the wider public's views, you just live in some little left wing echo chamber.
    Perhaps I do, it's called Scotland. Or perhaps the loss of nearly every Labour MP here, a very close referendum on breaking the union and the prospect of an even bigger SNP landslide next year have me at odds with people saying that the answer is to appeal to Tory voters.

    Blair succeeded in defeating a Tory government mired in sleaze and which had been in place for 18 years. The decision to wage war and lie about the reason didn't go down too well with the voters though. When issuing faux outrage at the treatment of the 'centrista' and telling people they know nothing about how people vote, look at what has happened in Scotland and see the sea of yellow that has replaced the sea of red.

    I don't buy personal abuse of any of the MPs but I am taking issue with the centre ground approach. Again I do not want another independence vote to participate in.


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    (Original post by redferry)
    That is nowhere near as divisive as literally telling people they don't belong in the party, I'm sorry but it just isn't.
    Yes only criticism of Corbyn is allowed. The warmongering liar having the audacity to talk in that way is fine.


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    (Original post by redferry)
    The centrists have not launched the kind of (peraonal) vitriol online that Corbynites have.

    The way Liz Kendall was treated was just disgusting.

    Let's face it - calling someone a Tory is just the lowest of the low, its designed to hurt and its designed to tell people they don't belong in their own party. Was what Tony Blair said insulting? Sure, a bit, but it wasn't personal insults or telling people to leave the party. The phrase red Tory is divisive on a completely different level.
    True but people like Tony Blair telling people to get a hear transplant and other comments certainly made the intensity higher in response.

    While I agree people shouldn't be calling people red tories, we do need to a look at what they mean. Liz Kendall wants to implement austerity, cut welfare, invest in young years education, be pro-business and reforms in public spending. Now thats alright but it's not a huge difference to what the tories are proposing.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Perhaps I do, it's called Scotland. Or perhaps the loss of nearly every Labour MP here, a very close referendum on breaking the union and the prospect of an even bigger SNP landslide next year have me at odds with people saying that the answer is to appeal to Tory voters.

    Blair succeeded in defeating a Tory government mired in sleaze and which had been in place for 18 years. The decision to wage war and lie about the reason didn't go down too well with the voters tlphough. When issuing faux outrage at the treatment of the 'centrista' and telling people they know nothing about how people vote, look at what has happened in Scotland and see the sea of yellow that has replaced the sea of red.

    I don't buy personal abuse of any of the MPs but I am taking issue with the centre ground approach. Again I do not want another independence vote to participate in.


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    But you just called 3 of them red Tories?
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Yes only criticism of Corbyn is allowed. The warmongering liar having the audacity to talk in that way is fine.


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    Well equally as bad is people calling Corbyn anti semetic. but little else meted against Cornyn, from the left at least, has been as bad as telling people to leave the party, as Corbyn supporters are doing.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    True but people like Tony Blair telling people to get a hear transplant and other comments certainly made the intensity higher in response.

    While I agree people shouldn't be calling people red tories, we do need to a look at what they mean. Liz Kendall wants to implement austerity, cut welfare, invest in young years education, be pro-business and reforms in public spending. Now thats alright but it's not a huge difference to what the tories are proposing.
    Liz, and to a lesser extent Andy and Yvette were bein told regularly to leave the party months before that happened. What this whole thing has shown me a large proportion of labour supporters are just as nasty as the Tories.

    Because she wants to win public opinion and belives the way to do it is go along with what the public wants to get elected, then bring in programmes and policies that are true labour. That's all - she thinks winning is what is needed to really help people, and that following public opinion is the way to do that.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    But you just called 3 of them red Tories?
    Tbf you call the lefties Trots which is basically the same thing, though I do agree that there was more vitriol among supporters from the left to the right than the other way round. Interventions by politicians were almost entirely right attacking left though and not in a way that showed much political acumen
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Tbf you call the lefties Trots which is basically the same thing, though I do agree that there was more vitriol among supporters from the left to the right than the other way round. Interventions by politicians were almost entirely right attacking left though and not in a way that showed much political acumen
    Tony Blair has donated more to charity in the last 10 years than Jeremy Corbyn has in his entire life. Was does this say about the persona of both these men?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Tbf you call the lefties Trots which is basically the same thing, though I do agree that there was more vitriol among supporters from the left to the right than the other way round. Interventions by politicians were almost entirely right attacking left though and not in a way that showed much political acumen
    Only when they are Trots...
    I mean there are actually trots within the labour party, I highly doubt there are any Tories.
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    (Original post by Gears265)
    Tony Blair has donated more to charity in the last 10 years than Jeremy Corbyn has in his entire life. Was does this say about the persona of both these men?
    It says something about their bank balance

    Also as a big state lefty I don't believe in charity, I don't think the whims of Tony Blair and other rich people are a suitable, stable or sustainable basis on which to provide for the needy
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    (Original post by redferry)
    But you just called 3 of them red Tories?
    Where?


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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well equally as bad is people calling Corbyn anti semetic. but little else meted against Cornyn, from the left at least, has been as bad as telling people to leave the party, as Corbyn supporters are doing.
    I have seen 'terrorist lover', 'loopy leftie', 'says Bin Laden's death was a tragedy' and countless gutter comments. You can add 'he hates Britain' after yesterday's anthem-gate. His only crime to warrant this is to speak against the establishment. Say what you will about his support, the man himself has behaved in exemplary fashion in the face of dog's abuse from the press.


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    (Original post by Ace123)
    What are your thoughts on Corbyn appointing an extreme left shadow cabinet. The prime example being the shadow chancellor John McDonnell.

    The Shadow Chancellor has come out in support of the IRA & praised them for their bombings and shootings, “It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table''

    The Chancellor also supports a 60% tax rate (which as we know was a great success when France did it NOT) & also wants to seize shares from people with no compensation

    http://www.cityam.com/224227/labour-s-lost-it

    When the announcement was made a Labour MP live on air couldn't even believe it was true McDonnell has been appointed

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...&utm_hp_ref=uk

    There is also the issue that all the top jobs went to white middle aged men
    Well that's *******s because half of the shadow cabinet's made up of women - Angela Eagle's been handed the top job, along with Lucy Powell as education secretary, Maria Eagle as defence secretary, and Diane Abbott as secretary of state for international development.

    "It is interesting, Jeremy said very, very clearly that we don't accept the hierarchical nature of what we have inherited by these supposed top jobs. They largely stem from the 19th century when you had an empire and all that," he told Sky News."For most people the real top jobs are the ones that provide the services like health and education, those sorts of things. So he has broken with that tradition and I'm really pleased."He added: "You can't say that Foreign Secretary is more important than delivering education to our children, or the health of the people of this population."Fawcett Society chief executive Sam Smethers said: "We welcome Jeremy Corbyn's commitment to a 50:50 cabinet and we congratulate those women appointed so far.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10500850.html
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well equally as bad is people calling Corbyn anti semetic. but little else meted against Cornyn, from the left at least, has been as bad as telling people to leave the party, as Corbyn supporters are doing.
    Ever heard of Militant? The left wing of the party that was EXPELLED from Labour? Only a small minority of left wingers slipped past the net, which is why there's a Socialist Party now - part of TUSC.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Only when they are Trots...
    I mean there are actually trots within the labour party, I highly doubt there are any Tories.
    I've seen you call McCluskey a trot, he's fairly extreme but not a trot.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Liz, and to a lesser extent Andy and Yvette were bein told regularly to leave the party months before that happened. What this whole thing has shown me a large proportion of labour supporters are just as nasty as the Tories.

    Because she wants to win public opinion and belives the way to do it is go along with what the public wants to get elected, then bring in programmes and policies that are true labour. That's all - she thinks winning is what is needed to really help people, and that following public opinion is the way to do that.
    Generally started with the start of the campaigns as did the centrists comments on corbyn supporters.

    If public opinion is that far right then its not worth winning as the tories will do the same. Its also a position which I dont believe favour society and rather than just trying to win votes Kendall seems to believe everything she says so I doubt real labour policies would come. Also you can shift public opinion as Atlee did and as Thatcher did we are better off trying than running on policies which are poisonous. I also think we must gain back Scotland to win which can only be done by moving leftwards.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    When will this nonsense with putting the word "phobia" after everything end. You really think it is entirely irrational to be repulsed by someone who so openly praises the IRA?
    Corbyn never openly praised the IRA. So he went to a memorial service for the Loughgall Martyrs, and he wanted to enter talks with them. The Tories ended up in peace talks with them within 5 years after they slated him for it.

    Well I think it's irrational. That's probably because I know what the PIRA was really like and I'm getting annoyed at the amount of English people who suddenly become experts and treat the Organisation as if it was like ISIS, when the day to day activities of the Provisionals consisted of operations like Warrenpoint and Drummuckavall, whereas Thatcher and her government colluded with loyalist terrorists like the UDA and UVF, whose daily operations consisted of McGurk's Bar Bombing, Miami Showband killings, Loughinisland massacre, Milltown massacre, Sean Graham bookmakers shooting, Castlerock killings and Greysteel massacre, all of which were aimed at innocent non-combatant Catholics.
    The PIRA never targeted civilians, only soldiers, RUC and infrastructure, e.g. Victoria Coach Station bombing.

    Sooo yeah.
    At least he's a man who stands by his principles.
 
 
 
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