Turn on thread page Beta

Hello, it's ADELE. watch

Announcements
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Did you miss the part where 25 is 42% of the total sales of the week?

    This is called 'standing out'. Music is subjective so there's little point arguing over that front. But you're clearly wrong - if it's exactly the same as a million other albums, why aren't they selling a fraction of what 25 is selling in a minute?
    I'm saying their's a clear preference of music from general public for buying generic, formulaic music. I know what your saying, Adele's percentage's are a significantly higher than the second highest selling album, and that obviously means she must have attracted a wider audience outside of people who buy Taylor Swift and Backstreet Boys albums. But the kind of music Adele makes has been done a million times before and isn't original in any way, and is therefore formulaic because it just takes all of it's ideas from other artists.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    The fact that you're all justifying your idolisation of Adele on the sole basis of her sales volume is quite amusing; since when has popularity ever been a reliable indicator of talent?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by John55)
    I'm saying their's a clear preference of music from general public for buying generic, formulaic music. I know what your saying, Adele's percentage's are a significantly higher than the second highest selling album, and that obviously means she must have attracted a wider audience outside of people who buy Taylor Swift and Backstreet Boys albums. But the kind of music Adele makes has been done a million times before and isn't original in any way, and is therefore formulaic because it just takes all of it's ideas from other artists.
    Yet you still have yet to address the question - if her music is the same as the other million ones, why is she the only one who sells? How is it possible for 100 albums to be the same but only 1 of them sells?

    And BTW, there's absolutely nothing that is 'original'. The human mind cannot create something without combining things of the past.
    (Original post by Kiytt)
    The fact that you're all justifying your idolisation of Adele on the sole basis of her sales volume is quite amusing; since when has popularity ever been a reliable indicator of talent?
    Amusing because I'm someone who clearly realises that music is subjective and only objective facts can be properly discussed? I already have 'justified my idolisation' based on something other than sales - it's not my fault you clearly either lack the ability to or couldn't be bothered to read. There's nothing to be discussed outside of sales - emotions, vocals, musical values are all subjective.

    The matter of fact is music is subjective and what is 'good' or 'bad' music is decided essentially by the masses. The Beatles wouldn't be considered 'good' without the sales. Whether 25 will be considered good after a decade is to be seen since we have no idea if the album will be legs or if it will last at all, but that was never something that I was talking about.

    But this is totally a strawman's argument as I have explained before - exactly where and when did I say popularity is an indicator of talent?
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Amusing because I'm someone who clearly realises that music is subjective and only objective facts can be properly discussed? I already have 'justified my idolisation' based on something other than sales - it's not my fault you clearly either lack the ability to or couldn't be bothered to read. There's nothing to be discussed outside of sales - emotions, vocals, musical values are all subjective.

    The matter of fact is music is subjective and what is 'good' or 'bad' music is decided essentially by the masses. The Beatles wouldn't be considered 'good' without the sales. Whether 25 will be considered good after a decade is to be seen since we have no idea if the album will be legs or if it will last at all, but that was never something that I was talking about.

    But this is totally a strawman's argument as I have explained before - exactly where and when did I say popularity is an indicator of talent?
    Wasn't referring to you specifically, so don't retaliate as if it was a personal jab.

    Citing sales figures as if it validates your opinion whatsoever is rather misguided; many people argue that the Beatles were overrated, and they are neither wrong nor right. However, I have seen people in this thread trying to defend their solidified belief that Adele is flawless just because she's sold X million copies, without realising they are essentially saying "overruling opinion determines whether someone is talented or not", and that's ludicrous.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Yet you still have yet to address the question - if her music is the same as the other million ones, why is she the only one who sells? How is it possible for 100 albums to be the same but only 1 of them sells?

    And BTW, there's absolutely nothing that is 'original'. The human mind cannot create something without combining things of the past.


    Amusing because I'm someone who clearly realises that music is subjective and only objective facts can be properly discussed? I already have 'justified my idolisation' based on something other than sales - it's not my fault you clearly either lack the ability to or couldn't be bothered to read. There's nothing to be discussed outside of sales - emotions, vocals, musical values are all subjective.

    The matter of fact is music is subjective and what is 'good' or 'bad' music is decided essentially by the masses. The Beatles wouldn't be considered 'good' without the sales. Whether 25 will be considered good after a decade is to be seen since we have no idea if the album will be legs or if it will last at all, but that was never something that I was talking about.

    But this is totally a strawman's argument as I have explained before - exactly where and when did I say popularity is an indicator of talent?
    I have addressed the question, luck and marketing, there's an Adele billboard outside my apartment for Christ sake. Obviously nothing can be completely original, but it can transcend it's influences, something bands like The Velvet Underground, Queen, The Stooges and The Smiths did...

    You are completely deluded if you think the masses decide on what constitutes 'good' and 'bad' music. Obviously I believe in objectivity but you can't actually be saying that due to her sales, Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga's music is better than that of brilliant and massively influential but low selling bands such as Big Star, The Replacement's and The Pixies. Brian Eno famously said of the Velvet Underground and Nico despite it selling just 30,000 copies, 'everyone who bought one of those 30,000 copies started a band'.

    The thing is with music that everyone listens to it but for most people it isn't an interest as such and therefore it's easier to just listen to generic pop. However if it's a genuine interest that quickly becomes boring and you realise it doesn't challenge you or say anything of meaning. Credit to Adele, her music does obviously relate to people and I'm not actually talking about her in this paragraph, this is more aimed at your Justin Bieber's and One Directions whose music is unbearable to anyone whose taken time to get into any actual interesting music. This is similar to all interest, for example movies, I'm not a massive movie fan and just occasionally watch them for enjoyment and it's usually just the latest thing made by Hollywood that's been done thousands of times before. There's probably better, lesser known movies I could be watching, but I'm not interested enough in movies enough at this point in my life to search them out...

    Pop music is simply a watered down, less imaginative copy of what musical geniuses like The Beatles conceived. Most people don't care which is fair enough because it isn't an interest of their's, but that doesn't make the generic watered down pop songs of Taylor Swift and One Direction better.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by John55)
    I have addressed the question, luck and marketing, there's an Adele billboard outside my apartment for Christ sake.
    Then your only argument is 'luck' because loads of people did better marketing than she did. She didn't even release the lead single for weeks before dropping the album, in this day and age when Justin Bieber and Beyoncé would release a video for all of his songs, and Taylor Swift would be on every magazine cover.

    This is without stating the obvious that she didn't have any marketing during 21, which is the major reason why 25 is doing so well right out of the gate. And of course what everyone has acknowledged is that Adele's success is so surprising also because she doesn't do much marketing and doesn't play the game. But I guess the rest of the world is wrong and only you, somehow who didn't even seem to realise how everyone's selling, are correct.

    But somehow it makes you think how good your hypothesis can be - on the one hand, what you're saying is luck decides everything, and she's proportionally doubling the biggest opening in history only due to luck and nothing else. Is that logical? Is that probable? On the other, is this hypothesis falsifiable? No.

    (Original post by John55)
    Obviously nothing can be completely original, but it can transcend it's influences, something bands like The Velvet Underground, Queen, The Stooges and The Smiths did...
    Which is what Adele has done. She takes in influences from all those genres and vocalists and put them into her music. This is why she appeals to fans of all genres of music. There's no-one in particular she's copying everything from. There's no-one in particular she's reminding people of. (Unlike for example Christina Aguilera.)

    (Original post by John55)
    You are completely deluded if you think the masses decide on what constitutes 'good' and 'bad' music.
    You are completely deluded if you think the masses do not decide on what constitutes 'good' and 'bad' music.

    Music is subjective and there are no actual objective measures to what is 'good', just like there isn't anything for wine. Critics don't have an influence on this whatsoever, and all the award shows and halls of fame are heavily influenced by mass approval.

    Music is a part of culture. What is valued and what isn't valued is clearly decided by the mass.

    (Original post by John55)
    Obviously I believe in objectivity but you can't actually be saying that due to her sales, Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga's music is better than that of brilliant and massively influential but low selling bands such as Big Star, The Replacement's and The Pixies. Brian Eno famously said of the Velvet Underground and Nico despite it selling just 30,000 copies, 'everyone who bought one of those 30,000 copies started a band'.
    Except I didn't say that.

    The general public ultimately decides whether same-sex marriage is OK. It's not the parliament, and not the medical professions. But do you need to wait until more than 50% of marriages are same-sex marriage to see that it's accepted by the masses? No.

    You can appreciate something without personally liking it. Children think 'songs I like' = 'good'. Adults don't. But adults' perception of what is good and bad is heavily dependent on what the wide community thinks. This is just like how people will generally see wine as a better drink than soda but most drink the latter.

    (Original post by John55)
    Pop music is simply a watered down, less imaginative copy of what musical geniuses like The Beatles conceived. Most people don't care which is fair enough because it isn't an interest of their's, but that doesn't make the generic watered down pop songs of Taylor Swift and One Direction better.
    I already said I didn't say what you claimed I have so I'll let that slide.

    The Beatles were the prime examples of watered down music with their early work so you're being a total hypocrite here. Or perhaps the approval they've gotten from the enduring general public has made you overrate them?

    Stop mentioning One Direction, you don't know what you're talking about. They are a front-loaded mess who cannot move albums after their first weeks to save their lives. They've never had an actual hit and their openings are not even that great. If you want to talk about good sales, don't use 1D as an example.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Another day, another slay.

    Projections are up to 3.3 million (3.4m with track sales and streams) for 25 in the United States of America.

    25 becomes the first and only album to receive five stars from the Rolling Stone this year.

    25 surpassed 21 on Metacritic.

    25 is double platinum (80k) in South Africa.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    This just in: After five days, 25 sold 260k copies in Canada and has now broken the all-time record, previously held by Céline Dion's Let's Talk About Love by 30k. 2 days to go.

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Another day of course another slay.

    After 6 days, she's sold 737k copies in the UK. Broke the all-time record. 56k yesterday.

    After 6 days and only half of the retailers reporting on Wednesday, she's sold more than 3 million copies in the US. Broke the all-time world-wide record and also of course the biggest single-country record. Outsold Katy Perry's Teenage Dream (6 No 1s, 2 other Top 3s).

    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    25 is amazing, it's her best album yet but now it is obvious that this is her peak. She will never be able to top Hello or Million Years Ago, its her best work. Plus the astronomical sales, there is no way she will ever be able to outsell herself after this album. Kind of like Lady Gaga and the Fame Monster album... ok I am being negative now but yeah.

    Adele is amazing. I actually teared up the first time I listened to Million Years Ago and that never happens to me.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by driftawaay)
    25 is amazing, it's her best album yet but now it is obvious that this is her peak. She will never be able to top Hello or Million Years Ago, its her best work. Plus the astronomical sales, there is no way she will ever be able to outsell herself after this album. Kind of like Lady Gaga and the Fame Monster album... ok I am being negative now but yeah.

    Adele is amazing. I actually teared up the first time I listened to Million Years Ago and that never happens to me.
    Well, considering the fact that 25 may actually outsell 21, at least in the US and Canada, I'm not sure sure...

    She may very well do:
    Week 1 - 3.5 million
    Week 2 - 1.5 million (Black Friday and Cyber Monday) (5 million)
    Week 3 - 500k (huge drop as the second week drop was softened) (5.5 million)
    Week 4 - 600k (slight increase leading into Christmas) (6.1 million)
    Week 5 - 800k (good increase due to Christmas, but could very well be over a million copies) (6.9 million)
    Week 6 - 300k (post-Christmas iTunes giftcard rush) (7.2 million)
    Week 7 - 100k (huge post-rush drop) (7.3 million)

    The Grammy's, Valentines' Day, Mothers' Day, and Easter should push it over 8 million copies. 'When We Were Young' could bring in another million (9 million). Whether it will pass 21 (12 million copies by then) depends on promotion, Grammy effect (21 moved 700k+ post-Grammy after 300k+ the week before, and another 300k the week after), and the success of subsequent singles (WWWY will be a smash, 'Send My Love (To Your New Lover)' will be a smash, 'Water Under The Bridge'/'All I Ask'/'Million Years Ago' should be able to be a moderate hit do at least as well as 'Rumour Has It' does, and 'Remedy' should be able to become a minor hit - that is, if she's even releasing that many singles).
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Germany -
    263k copies sold, best opening in 8 years; 88,000 digitally - all-time record (35% of diamond already)

    New Zealand -
    18766 copies at No 1. (Double platinum) - all-time record, surpassed Susan Boyle's I Dreamed a Dream's 17435 opening

    France -
    169693 copies at No 1, all-time record for a foreign artist.

    Netherlands -
    No 1 - No 2 album sold only 27% of it (biggest Dutch act), No 6 (21) sold only 1% of it. No numbers but safe to say it's a massive one.

    US -
    3.5 million projected now

    UK -
    737k after 6 days
    'When We Were Young' débuts No 29 as an album track.

    Australia -
    210k - record

    Canada -
    260k after 5 days

    Belgium -
    No 1 in both regions - 60k shipped (double platinum)

    Hungary-
    No 4 (only 3 days of sales)

    Sweden -
    No 1

    Japan -
    No 13 (12952) - 3 days of sales, physical only

    Hong Kong -
    No 1

    Brazil -
    170k+

    Italy -
    No 1

    No numbers yet but broke the all-time digital records in Austria and Switzerland. All-time total sales.

    No numbers yet but highest first-week sales in Ireland since U2's No Line On The Horizon in 2009.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Final projection: 3,354,773 copies in the US, 3,468,558 copies plus streamings.

    This projection started before the chart week ended, so its accuracy depends on whether there's many last-minute purchases on Thanksgiving evening.

    It sold 800,307 in the UK in the end.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Official: 3.38 million copies sold in the US.
    http://www.billboard.com/articles/co...-first-week-us

    Will know tomorrow if track sales and streaming will put it above 3.5m.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Broke Oasis's record in the UK for getting to a million copies the fastest. Took 11 days instead of 17. Second week is looking to drop only 50% to around 400k. If this is the case, this will be the second biggest one-week sales for a female solo artist ever, behind of course also 25. I think this will also be the biggest second week ever in British history.

    In the US, she's passed 4 million copies after just 10 days, with another 650k+ sold through the weekend. Second week projected to be a million - biggest second-week ever and will be the first album ever to move more than a million copies for two weeks.

    Gold in Italy - 25-49k
    25k in Norway
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    In the US, she's passed 4 million copies after just 10 days, with another 650k+ sold through the weekend. Second week projected to be a million - biggest second-week ever and will be the first album ever to move more than a million copies for two weeks.

    Gold in Italy - 25-49k
    25k in Norway
    Do you think it will suffer a huge drop for the 2nd and 3rd week (in the US)?

    Musically, what's your favourite 19, 21 or 25?
    Which has the best (and the worst) album cover?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kka25)
    Do you think it will suffer a huge drop for the 2nd and 3rd week (in the US)?

    Musically, what's your favourite 19, 21 or 25?
    Which has the best (and the worst) album cover?
    Second, no. Her second week includes Black Friday (last Friday) and Cyber Monday, and she's already sold 650k after three days, before Cyber Monday.

    Third week will probably see a harsh drop by third-week standards,probably dropping to 300-400k copies the lowest, which will still get her blocking Coldplay from going No 1. Sales will pick up for two weeks from there when promotions kick in and Christmas approaches.

    19: 'Cold Shoulders', 'Chasing Pavement', 'Make You Feel My Love'
    21: 'Rolling In The Deep', 'Rumour Has It', 'Someone Like You', 'Set Fire To The Rain', 'I'll Be Waiting', 'Don't You Remember'
    25: 'When We Were Young', 'Send My Love (To Your New Lover)', 'Hello', 'River Lea', 'Water Under The Bridge', 'Sweetest Devotion', 'Million Years Ago', 'All I Ask'
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Second, no. Her second week includes Black Friday (last Friday) and Cyber Monday, and she's already sold 650k after three days, before Cyber Monday.

    Third week will probably see a harsh drop by third-week standards,probably dropping to 300-400k copies the lowest, which will still get her blocking Coldplay from going No 1. Sales will pick up for two weeks from there when promotions kick in and Christmas approaches.

    19: 'Cold Shoulders', 'Chasing Pavement', 'Make You Feel My Love'
    21: 'Rolling In The Deep', 'Rumour Has It', 'Someone Like You', 'Set Fire To The Rain', 'I'll Be Waiting', 'Don't You Remember'
    25: 'When We Were Young', 'Send My Love (To Your New Lover)', 'Hello', 'River Lea', 'Water Under The Bridge', 'Sweetest Devotion', 'Million Years Ago', 'All I Ask'
    It seems you like 25 more
    (what I meant by album cover is the printed cover of the album itself)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kka25)
    It seems you like 25 more
    (what I meant by album cover is the printed cover of the album itself)
    I don't have a preference over the covers.

    I don't think it's fair to compare a 10-day-old album to a 5-year-old album.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I have seen Adele several times live, she has a fantastic voice and is very down-to-earth (swears like a trooper!). However, 25 is such a let down, it is merely an extension of her previous morose albums... oh heartache, more heartache and, even more heartache. I do not deny Adele has smashed lots of records with 25 however, I really hope she learns to loosen up.. some cheery songs might help
 
 
 
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

Articles:

TSR wiki music section

Quick link:

Unanswered music threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.