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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Given the number of things that contain animal products I find it hard to imagine you avoid them all. Things you'd never even imagine like plastic bags, tires, fireworks and even computers all can contain animal products


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    Well I can avoid what I know about, and try my hardest to avoid all animal products best I can. Not much more I can do beyond that to be honest
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Are you sure that's not one of those fake sleaze jobs like boob inspector?
    I have no idea, but it was hilarious :lol:
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I've thought this ever since I read an article by a "blowjobologist" in Look magazine. What a job.
    I googled it... I was thinking, well, if it's an actual profession, I'm assuming it's something to do with the science behind blowjobs? No, no it's ****ing not :rofl:
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    My favourite quote is "If slaughterhouses were made out of glass, nobody would eat meat" something along those lines

    I would........
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    (Original post by daydreamer4life)
    This is my viewpoint as a vegan: Even if I had a neighbor who looked after chickens and loved them and didn't eat them, only used them for eggs, I STILL wouldn't buy eggs from them.
    1. After being a vegan for ethical reasons, I discovered how healthy being veganism is. Eggs are full of cholesterol and fat - what person who cares about their health is going to eat them?
    2. Eggs are essentially chicken menstruations - unfertilised waste. Thats enough to put me off.
    3. Everyone owning backyard chickens and free-range farms isn't sustainable - its how we started before getting to factory farms - watch the documentary Cowspiracy to find out more about this.
    Just eat the damn food. You wouldnt be here without it. Easiest source of protein
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    Eating our own species would have a negative impact on the continuation of humanity and society as a whole.
    Lions don't tend to eat other lions. Of course, spiders eat each other but there's the fact that cannibalism is another practice that contradicts the points I made before.

    "causing harm to your neighbours"

    I'm pretty sure that eating someone qualifies as doing them harm.

    If I've misunderstood what you're trying to say, can you simplify things?
    "Eating our own species would have a negative impact on the continuation of humanity and society as a whole."
    How is that relevant?


    "Lions don't tend to eat other lions."
    Do you base your moral decisions on what lions do?

    "causing harm to your neighbours"
    My slave set up is based in Africa, so not my neighbours.




    "I'm pretty sure that eating someone qualifies as doing them harm. "
    Funny, that's the argument I'm making.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Just go back and check what the naturalistic fallacy is, then kindly point out where I suggested something was morally right because it's pleasurable or desirable... :facepalm2:

    Edit: For the record, what I suspect you meant is an appeal to nature, but I didn't say eating meat was right because it was natural, I said that it's not comparable to slavery, because it's a biological function and slavery isn't.
    Naturalistic fallacy is simply thinking that a value (in this case moral value) comes from nature.
    Your argument is that it's morally acceptable because it's natural.

    Just because something has a function in biology it does not follow that it is beyond moral assessment.

    Or are you in favor of cannibalism and bestiality now?
    After all both of those are biological functions.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Naturalistic fallacy is simply thinking that a value (in this case moral value) comes from nature.
    Your argument is that it's morally acceptable because it's natural.

    Just because something has a function in biology it does not follow that it is beyond moral assessment.

    Or are you in favor of cannibalism and bestiality now?
    After all both of those are biological functions.
    False, the naturalistic fallacy is trying to reduce the notion of good to concepts such as pleasurable or desirable.

    No, my argument is that it's not comparable with slavery, and that doing so effectively shows how ridiculous your argument is.

    Not in favour of cannibalism because the meat isn't nutritious, it's not conductive to human survival as a species and there's considerable risk of prion diseases such as kuru, while bestiality increases the risk of cross species diseases such as the bird flu and swine flu scares of the last decade. Eating meat doesn't carry those same issues, so again you're wide of the mark.


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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Unsure on B12, But Vit D3 is really cheap and you can get some good, high quality stuff.

    I'm sorry to hear about joint issues. Rowing is very low impact, but can be tough on joints if you train hard. In terms of being overweight in the future, that can easily be avoided. Swimming?
    Cheap?! Are you kidding me it's extortionate -_- (you're talking to someone on a PhD wage here who spends 20-30 quid a week on food shopping for two people)

    No rowing is the worst thing I can possibly do for fingers and wrists unfortunately - it's part of what caused the problem. I swim and do spin 5 x a week atm but it'll be a ot more difficult to keep up once I started proper job.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Learn to ride a bike! :bike:
    In London? I'll just die from getting run over/air pollution
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I'm not justifying eating meat today, just saying why we wouldn't have been here to ask the question if we hadn't been meat-eaters - specifically big game hunters - as cavemen.
    Well without the use for slavery throughout history we would live in a much much less developed world. Do you think we should still enslave the africans and jews? I think Hitler had a similar idea!
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, my argument is that it's not comparable with slavery, and that doing so effectively shows how ridiculous your argument is.
    I'm interested why comparing it with slavery makes no sense to you.
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    Well without the use for slavery throughout history we would live in a much much less developed world. Do you think we should still enslave the africans and jews? I think Hitler had a similar idea!
    Not really, slavery was used as a source of labour, not innovation.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not really, slavery was used as a source of labour, not innovation.


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    Without slavery, the western world as we know it would not exist.

    I also don't see how eating flesh leads to innovation. You could argue that women not being able to own property was a source on innovation, should we have kept that around?
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, my argument is that it's not comparable with slavery, and that doing so effectively shows how ridiculous your argument is.

    [/URL][/SIZE]
    I'm just going to cull your posts down to the parts where we might make some headway.

    You've not argued it's not comparable with slavery. You've said it's your argument, but haven't put forward why.

    Ironically your next statement is to say my argument is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    Without slavery, the western world as we know it would not exist.
    We still have a form of slavery: it's called work. Essentially it would be as if we changed from farming animals as if they were commodities to giving some of them more food and better conditions if they could make us more profit, and encouraging them to trample on each other.
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    (Original post by there's too much love;[url="tel:60198487")
    60198487[/url]]"Eating our own species would have a negative impact on the continuation of humanity and society as a whole."
    How is that relevant?


    "Lions don't tend to eat other lions."
    Do you base your moral decisions on what lions do?

    "causing harm to your neighbours"
    My slave set up is based in Africa, so not my neighbours.




    "I'm pretty sure that eating someone qualifies as doing them harm. "
    Funny, that's the argument I'm making.

    I believe it's relevant because you asked me to tell you the differences between animals and humans, or something to that effect. You weren't very clear.

    As for the lions, you're splitting hairs. I was making a comparison. It doesn't make sense for members of a species to eat each other, and it isn't really necessary given the presence food-chains.

    Neighbours; again, you're splitting hairs. By neighbours, I mean fellow human beings, not the family next door.

    So are you against every carnivore/omnivore in existence? I'm sure the great white shark, ape, and snow leopard would love to debate with you on this topic.

    Animals eat each other. We eat them, some of them can eat us if we're not careful. If a greater predator than us existed, we would probably become that animal's food.

    Again, even though I'm not against eating meat, but I am against the unnecessary mistreatment of animals in farms and the like. There are humane ways to do things.

    Perhaps if you explained your choice to be vegan/vegetarian, I would better understand you.

    Note; me purchasing cod doesn't mean that I condone the unnecessary torture of cod. It means I'm hungry and I need to eat.
    Given the choice between buying tortured cod or cod that's been killed humanely, I'd choose the latter, but it's not always that clear.

    I can't stay for much longer today as it's getting late; if I don't reply, it's because I'm asleep and I'll get back to you tomorrow if you wish.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    We still have a form of slavery: it's called work. Essentially it would be as if we changed from farming animals as if they were commodities to giving some of them more food and better conditions if they could make us more profit, and encouraging them to trample on each other.
    Work is slavery? You have every right to go live in the forest if you like, then you won't have to work!

    If we stopped working the entire world would collapse since no one in the western world would have food, shelter or water. On the other hand, if we stopped killing animals:

    - C02 emissions decrease
    - 6 MILLION less animals die per minute
    - 45% of the land on earth doesn't have to be used for the meat industry
    - The amount of food we have available would increase 5 fold
    - The human race could live with the peace of mind that we don't enslave and torture everything that we find.

    No argument you can make apart from 'It tastes good!' is valid in favour of the meat industry, so please stop trying; it's honestly embarrassing.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Cheap?! Are you kidding me it's extortionate -_- (you're talking to someone on a PhD wage here who spends 20-30 quid a week on food shopping for two people)

    No rowing is the worst thing I can possibly do for fingers and wrists unfortunately - it's part of what caused the problem. I swim and do spin 5 x a week atm but it'll be a ot more difficult to keep up once I started proper job.
    £20 - 30 for TWO people?! I spend £50 a week on just ME, at least £20 on meat for the week. One year of Vit D3 supply is like £10?
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    So are you against every carnivore/omnivore in existence? I'm sure the great white shark, ape, and snow leopard would love to debate with you on this topic.

    Animals eat each other. We eat them, some of them can eat us if we're not careful. If a greater predator than us existed, we would probably become that animal's food.
    Snow leopards hunt for their food, its a part of nature. Humans keep animals in cages and slaughter 200 Billion of them per year.

    It really aggravates me when people compare hunting to the meat industry, if your is argument seriously 'Animals eat other animals in nature so they can survive, Humans do this to! We have to go hunt at Tesco and catch an animal that was born without the slightest chance of having a decent life.' then you need to re-asses your intelligence.
 
 
 
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