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My favourite pro veganism quotation!

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My favourite quote for those who think they need meat:

"The stamina of a camel, the strength of an elephant, and the beauty of a horse are all sustained on a vegetarian diet."

Reply 221

daydreamer4life

Original post by cbreef

Just eat the damn food. You wouldnt be here without it. Easiest source of protein

Can you not tell other people what to do? I'll get my protein wherever I want to.

Reply 222

e aí rapaz

Original post by JD1lla

No,

athletes do everything to get that 0.1% improvement in what they do. Anything to make any improvement, now matter how significant it is. There is research and thought that goes behind an athletes diet. If a vegan diet was more beneficial, they would be on them.

True, but I never said they were MORE beneficial. Just that it may not be any worse.

Original post by Jammy Duel

Have you ever considered why so few of them are inclined to become vegans? Couldn't possibly be because they're told that it's best for their career not to or anything by people that actually know what they're talking about.

Well, people in general are less inclined to become vegans than not, obviously. But I'm sure the percentage among pro athletes is significantly lower. I don't think it's because it's inherently bad for athletic performance, though. It'd definitely be more difficult, and that probably contributes a lot. No doubt the NFL player I posted about above has to put even more time and money into his diet and supplements than other non-vegan players already do.

Reply 223

JD1lla

I, and the majority of the population, eat meat because we choose to. It's as simple as that. I've seen all of the documentaries on battery hens, foie gras, cows, lambs, pigs being burnt alive, dogs being boiled alive, fish SERVED whilst still alive. I've seen it all. I've seen the throats being cut. I've seen the blood spurt with the terrified look on the cows face. I've had to kill animals myself in person (survival course).

I still eat meat. I do my best to ensure it's reared responsibly and as 'ethically' as possible. I ensure it's genuinely free range, grass fed with full tracability back to the farm. I pay so much money for my meat and eggs because of this. That's about as far as it will go. I will not give up meat in the not so distant future.

Reply 224

JD1lla

Original post by e aí rapaz

True, but I never said they were MORE beneficial. Just that it may not be any worse.

Well, people in general are less inclined to become vegans than not, obviously. But I'm sure the percentage among pro athletes is significantly lower. I don't think it's because it's inherently bad for athletic performance, though. It'd definitely be more difficult, and that probably contributes a lot. No doubt the NFL player I posted about above has to put even more time and money into his diet and supplements than other non-vegan players already do.

There's research to suggest that animal proteins are more beneficial than soy/nut proteins, can't find the paper/book but it's somewhere around!

Reply 225

JD1lla

The question was not addressed to you. You didn't answer at all.

So, I'll ask you, since you're so eager.

Do you think, that human beings and parasites are equal. Not 'relatively', equal, but fully equal. They deserve the same treatment and subject to the same rights as other human beings. That's what equal is. He said yes. Yes we are equal to parasites. It's earlier in the thread.

Also, I'm not trying to counter veganism. Vegans are great. Supply and demand. It's gonna make my meat cheaper when the demand is less.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 226

JD1lla

Who would you save if a dog and a child were stuck in a river, both having equal chances of survival, but only enough time to save one?

Which one would you pick? I ask because I'm curious.

Reply 227

JD1lla

Are all your family vegan?

Reply 228

Katty3

Original post by JD1lla

There's research to suggest that animal proteins are more beneficial than soy/nut proteins, can't find the paper/book but it's somewhere around!

No, the protein is exactly the same. The amount of protein varies between sources.

Meat contains a lot of fat as well as protein. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in other sources. This includes vitamin supplements.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 229

redferry

Original post by JD1lla

It's because I have certain carb/protein/fat requirements. I eat 500g of chicken breast in two days, that's £5 already. Then things like vegetables (tenderstem broccoli is £2 a pack?!!, that lasts one day!), it just really adds up. I don't like cheap ingredients, such as 30p for a 1kg bag of pasta. If I do eat pasta, which is rare, I will ensure it's the high quality stuff, which has a much nicer, rougher texture. Duck is £7 for about 300g, and I eat lots of sirloin/fillet steak. I am a student, but food is one of life's greatest pleasures. I'm not spending my younger years surviving off a can of baked beans and some pasta.

So where I can, I'll make sure everything is as fresh as possible, without being ridiculous. (Tescos do 'organic' chicken breast at about 250g, for £9, that's outrageous!)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Origins-5000-Vitamin-Liquid/dp/B00PLQ6KWA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1445956491&sr=8-7&keywords=vitamin+d3

I'm pretty sure I paid like £8, but £13 for 360 capsules (the capsules come in oil so you don't have to eat it with a source of fat). Where are you getting your D3 from?! :P

So yes, you are bad with your money :tongue:

You can buy like 5 normal broccoli for 2 quid XD

I assume you're getting fish derived ones then - cant do that - I'm veggie.

Reply 230

AbsoluteAnarchy

I'm back!

Ah, Jasmine tea is another one I forgot to ask about. I didn't know that those types of tea could increase a person's metabolism; that's very handy.After a quick conversion of kg into stone, you're about the same weight as me. I'm normally anywhere between 8 and 9 stone; it fluctuates. :smile:

Spicy food is nice but I need a lot of water to counter it. Haha!

I just returned from my trip out. My mother rejected my idea of getting a smoothie machine, saying it would be a "five minute wonder", but I managed to convince her to let me get some strawberries and blueberries. I'm going to blend them with a banana for after dinner tonight. She also wanted to buy chocolate but I declined, and now I'm feeling quite proud of myself, not to sound too smug. :biggrin:

Perhaps next time I'll do as you suggest and try freezing the banana first. I also want to try raspberries at some point; I've never had them and they looked tempting.
I'm definitely going to keep the rich tea in mind, and I had no idea that whey powder originated from animals. I guess I can do the same with biscuits as I did with croissants; I asked my mother not to buy them because if they're not there, I can't have them. It worked; I don't eat them anymore. :smile:

Haha! I expected you to bite my head off about missing lunch; that's what everyone else does. I guess I could each a banana; the good thing about them is that they come with their own wrapper so I don't have to worry about contamination so much.

I'm showing the article about Coke to my brother. He drinks far too much of it and now I know why it burns; it's like battery acid. I don't understand how anyone can consume fizzy drinks; they don't even taste of anything. My mother wanted to put orange juice in my first smoothie and no. Just no. I want it to just be the berries and the banana, and nothing else.

I love the idea of having a sandwich for dinner. I keep telling my mother that she doesn't have to cook me steak or anything like that, and that I could just have a sandwich instead because that doesn't even take up any cooker space. She nearly always tells me that I need "a proper dinner" and that a sandwich "isn't enough to fill me up", which is rubbish because my stomach is the size of a pea. Steak is expensive and chewy and gristly.I want to go to uni next year so hopefully then I'll have more freedom and a smaller budget. :smile:

I've had a Chinese vegetable roll; that was nice, and noodles are awesome. If I have the opportunity, I'll try something without meat, which could've been the reason I didn't like it. Duck is way too fatty for me. You just have to be careful with what restaurants you go to these days; you have no idea what their kitchens are like and I get paranoid when it comes to dirt.

Thank you for the tea making lesson! Haha! :biggrin:

I'm going to try it at some point during the week, if not for me then for my mother or my friend. I'm sure she didn't mean any harm by laughing at my knife skills; we still joke about it from time to time. A running gag is that I'm clumsy and have no common sense, which I can't deny. :biggrin:

I'll tell my friend what you've said and hope that it has an impact. I invite her to my house to lift weights with me, which she agrees to. Deep down, I know you're right; if I'm not around to stop her, she'll give in to temptation. I once had to stop her from having two lunches in the same day. :frown:

Google may be my friend, but it was still nice to speak with someone first-hand; I really appreciate the tips you've given me and I've come this far so I might as well go further. If I can cut out crisps and chips, I should be able to cut out chocolate.
I understand that you're busy, and I have coursework, so you don't have to respond to this message if you don't want to. :smile:

Reply 231

JD1lla

Original post by Katty3

Flavour.

I get 5% fat mince. That's hardly any fat in the grand scheme of things. Nothing wrong with a nice serving of saturated fat anyway.

Protein is not all the same. Where did you get this information from? Look up 'complete' protein sources and 'incomplete' protein sources.

Reply 232

JD1lla

You are purposely avoiding saying the child.

Reply 233

ellsie98

Personally, I am not vegan because humans evolved to be omnivores to take advantage of what the world around us has to offer to survive. This doesn't mean that I agree with current industry standards, and I do try to eat the best quality meat I can - for example, I would have no issue eating a pheasant that my dad has shot because it's lived a long and healthy and free life. battery-farmed chickens? A whole other story.

Reply 234

JD1lla

Original post by redferry

So yes, you are bad with your money :tongue:

You can buy like 5 normal broccoli for 2 quid XD

I assume you're getting fish derived ones then - cant do that - I'm veggie.

I'm great with my money, I saved 3 grand this year! Strict £50 a week diet. Where are you getting this broccoli from?! It's 67p per broccoli here, tenderstem is much more expensive, but it works better in a stir fry.

Lamb derived.

Reply 235

JD1lla

Chickens I eat feast on insects.

Reply 236

JD1lla

It's a silly, hypothetical made up situation that probably won't happen anyway. Dogs usually can swim anyway.

Reply 237

viddy9

If quotes from fiction are allowed too, I'd add this from the Vulcan T'Pol in Star Trek: "You humans claim to be enlightened, yet you still consume the flesh of animals", and this from later on in the timeline, from Commander Riker: "We no longer enslave animals for food purposes...You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialized out of patterns used by our transporters." (This parallels the development of lab-grown meat, in my view).

I'd also add this from Peter Singer: "We are, quite literally, gambling with the future of our planet - for the sake of hamburgers."

Original post by Lilly-Bayliss

Interesting quote, I have been vegan for 5 years now, and that's my choice, but I've just never thought that people who eat meat are just as bad as rapists, murders and paedophiles, I mean to eat meat is someone's choice, right? just as it is our choice not to.

The freedom of choice argument shouldn't apply when other sentient beings are harmed as a result of that choice. Murdering someone or torturing someone is also someone's choice, but we still ban both actions because they inflict unnecessary suffering on humans.

Original post by scrotgrot

I am perturbed by the way pigs seem to be farmed, in small pens. It seems inhumane, is there a better way to do it or what are the reasons for it?
Obviously there is real physical suffering, such as confinement in a small cage, or animals bred so hard for yield that they have health problems, or I can't imagine it's much fun having your tits squeezed by a milking machine.

And I think it's obvious animals are going to feel fear and suffering at the moment of their slaughter - although here, note that they'd feel the same dying in the wild too, likely worse

Therefore, you acknowledge that nonhuman animals do suffer in the meat industry in many instances: in fact, it's the majority of instances.

If you agree that unnecessary suffering is wrong, regardless of whether it's physical or not, this should logically lead you to reduce and eliminate your consumption of animal products. Indeed, severely intellectually disabled humans and human infants can't reason either, meaning that they would only experience "physical suffering" too. I doubt you would condone treating them in the way that we treat nonhuman animals reared for meat, however.

Also, your point about the wild is irrelevant: the alternative to farming and slaughtering animals for meat is not to release them into the wild, but to stop breeding as many animals, thereby preventing further beings from having to go through the cycle of suffering and misery prevalent in the meat industry.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 238

JD1lla

1) We do not need meat to survive.

2) Free range chickens (Like, actually free range, they wander around in a huge field where they can graze freely with a diet of whatever they can find)

I'm not clutching at straws. The majority of the world eats meat. I'm not losing the battle here.

Reply 239

viddy9

Original post by JD1lla

Who would you save if a dog and a child were stuck in a river, both having equal chances of survival, but only enough time to save one?

Which one would you pick? I ask because I'm curious.

It's not speciesist to choose the child if it has a greater capacity for self-awareness than the dog, meaning that it likely has a greater preference to continue to live. If it were a human infant, though, I would save the dog, other things being equal.

Saving the child simply because it is a member of the species Homo sapiens is morally and intellectually indefensible.

(edited 8 years ago)