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David Cameron's father 'ran offshore fund that paid zero UK tax for 30 years' Watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I don't think anyone has failed to make that distinction.
    ISA's are tax avoidance yes, but they are expressly provided for and intended by Parliament to help people save. There's nothing shady about them.

    Tax avoidance of the kind of Cameron's father though is different. That's finding and exploiting an unintended legal loophole to stick all your money offshore and pay no tax.
    That's not what happened. In the slightest. The ignorance of the anti-Cameron mob in this matter is astonishing.
    Unethical tax avoidance can reasonably be described as when people or corporations go to lengths to avoid paying taxes in the jurisdiction the income was generated in.
    For example, Starbucks having it's UK subsidiary take out large, high interest loans from it's Dutch subsidiary, and also pay huge, inflated royalty payments so as to artificially reduce British profit.
    Or Google, which books sales made in the UK through Ireland, even though they blatantly take place in the UK and it's British sales staff earn over twice as much as it's Irish staff.
    Or Jimmy Carr, who took part in a K2 tax scheme, which saw him pay money into a shell company, which he could write off against his tax bill, even though the company then loaned the money back out to him again interest free.
    Those methods serve absolutely no business purpose and are solely for tax avoidance.
    In reality, Blairmore is a legitimate hedge fund. It pays no UK tax because it isn't a British company and doesn't operate in the UK. It's really quite a simply, straight forward situation. A Briton establishing a legitimate business in another country isn't tax avoidance. Blairmore itself is a distributor fund, meaning that it pays out all profits as dividends and doesn't retain any itself. All dividends are taxed in the investors' nation of residence, in the case of Ian and David Cameron, the UK. The Cameron's paid full UK tax on all income derived from the fund.
    Pray tell, how exactly does that equate into sticking all of their money offshore and not paying tax?
    In layman's terms, the Cameron's were engaged in foreign investment into Bermuda/Ireland, and paid full UK tax on the returns of that investment. That's not tax avoidance and never will be.
    Seriously Bornblue, stop waffling nonsense.
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    So, have we established yet that the thread title is a complete lie? Also that it is another exageration by the inept and worthless far left trying to get some political points by dragging someone through the mud?

    It doesn't make them look very good.
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    Like you wouldnt do the same if u were rich...
    U might like to think that u would pay all ur taxes but if a law firm arrives at ur doorstep and says we can save "x" amount u will take it which is why i dont judge cameron
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And all the other people they've been trying to make say he's done something wrong, they were at it again today

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    The woman asking the questions was literally sighing and holding her head because she wanted him to criticise Cameron. She didn't seem to be able to accept he hasn't done anything wrong


    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The woman asking the questions was literally sighing and holding her head because she wanted him to criticise Cameron. She didn't seem to be able to accept he hasn't done anything wrong


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Well now when they get nowhere they say "well, what about his inheritance" to which the response when I watched it was words to the effect of "his mother probably had her own money, there is no evidence it was specifically tax avoidance"
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    The number of people jumping on the anti-Cameron bandwagon...

    What he did - with his own money - was legitimate. He bought shares in a foriegn hedge fund. No wrongdoing there. He then paid tax in the UK on the dividends and declared the profits on his tax return. Nothing wrong or shady there, either. He wasn't evading or avoiding tax.

    As for his father's company, it is a normal, legitimate practice to set up companies in foriegn countries. As long as you pay tax in your home nation on any money you're making from it, you aren't evading tax, and you're doing nothing wrong. It's a common, legitimate practice.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
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    I haven't said Cameron should resign over this. I've said it's hypocriticial for him to have had shares in a tax avoidance company and for having called Jimmy Carr immoral when his dad has engaged in tax avoidance.

    The entire point of plonking it in Panama rather than say London was to avoid corporation and other business taxes.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I haven't said Cameron should resign over this. I've said it's hypocriticial for him to have had shares in a tax avoidance company and for having called Jimmy Carr immoral when his dad has engaged in tax avoidance.

    The entire point of plonking it in Panama rather than say London was to avoid corporation and other business taxes.
    Jesus Christ, did you even read what I wrote? I specifically, in detail, point out how Blairmore Holdings is a legitimate hedge fund and that it pays all taxes in full and you're still claiming the Cameron's are engaged in tax avoidance.
    The entire point of plonking it in...The Bahamas, not Panama, was to take advantage of Bahamian business regulations. It wasn't for tax reasons, and I'll explain why in a second.
    So anyhow, a Briton establishing a company in a foreign country is not tax avoidance. It's foreign investment. If you buy a timeshare in Malta, are you a tax dodger because you didn't buy one in the UK instead? No, of course not.

    And I'll repeat this key bit of information as to why Blairmore Holdings is not a tax avoidance vehicle, since you decided to ignore it-
    Blairmore Holdings is a distributor fund. That means it pays out all of it's profits back to it's investors, who are then taxed at their nation of domicile. Ian Cameron had his money in the UK, invested it through the foreign hedge fund out of Bermuda...and then received profits back out again in the UK, where they are taxed fully under UK law.
    Where pray tell is the tax avoiding happening?
    I've seen at least three tax experts berate the BBC for sensationalist reporting over this issue. Blairmore Holdings is the last place you'd put your money if you were specifically looking to avoid paying taxes.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Jesus Christ, did you even read what I wrote? I specifically, in detail, point out how Blairmore Holdings is a legitimate hedge fund and that it pays all taxes in full and you're still claiming the Cameron's are engaged in tax avoidance.
    The entire point of plonking it in...The Bahamas, not Panama, was to take advantage of Bahamian business regulations. It wasn't for tax reasons, and I'll explain why in a second.
    So anyhow, a Briton establishing a company in a foreign country is not tax avoidance. It's foreign investment. If you buy a timeshare in Malta, are you a tax dodger because you didn't buy one in the UK instead? No, of course not.

    And I'll repeat this key bit of information as to why Blairmore Holdings is not a tax avoidance vehicle, since you decided to ignore it-
    Blairmore Holdings is a distributor fund. That means it pays out all of it's profits back to it's investors, who are then taxed at their nation of domicile. Ian Cameron had his money in the UK, invested it through the foreign hedge fund out of Bermuda...and then received profits back out again in the UK, where they are taxed fully under UK law.
    Where pray tell is the tax avoiding happening?
    I've seen at least three tax experts berate the BBC for sensationalist reporting over this issue. Blairmore Holdings is the last place you'd put your money if you were specifically looking to avoid paying taxes.
    Fair enough. I'm also impressed that he has published his tax returns too.

    I suspect he made it look a lot shadier than it actually was by not saying all that initially and telling half truths.

    Out of interest what did the Icelandic pm do then which forced him to resign and should he have?

    I would say cameron having to publish his tax returns is a good thing which hopefully sets a precedent of transparency.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Out of interest what did the Icelandic pm do then which forced him to resign and should he have?
    The Icelandic PM negotiated where the losses from the Icelandic banking crisis fell as between different classes of creditors and asset holders.

    His family were substantial members of one of those classes and that was hidden from view behind this offshore structure. He had a conflict of interest and he concealed it.

    You might think that such a conflict of interest is a million miles from Cameron's position, but oddly it isn't. The press have picked up that Cameron's previous humorous comment that his wife owns a field in Scunthorpe is actually a reference to her having a £77,000 interest in her father's Normanby Park Estates company. However there has been no association of ideas between his in-laws' agricultural, commercial and residential property interests and what is currently the most significant domestic political policy issue,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-bid-to-save/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35994323
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Oh absolutely, the question wrt David Camerons father is: which does this come under? I personally don't know and tbh it has been difficult for me as somebody who isn't an economist or a tax lawyer to know (and the media hasn't really helped clarify this matter and has instead resorted to its usual trick of trying to make a scandal out of this).

    (There's also the other obvious point that David Camerons fathers dodgy dealings are not the responsibility of his son)
    The problem for Corbyn is that he started shrieking about how the Prime Minister had betrayed us all and such like, but actually this whole offshore thing comes across as a lot less dodgy when you're declared it on your tax return and paid full UK tax on the earnings, as the Prime Minister did.

    Personally I'd be much more interested in having Corbyn declare his earning from PressTV and provides full, public explanations for why he praised Hamas as "dedicated to peace and social justice". It is somewhat ironic for Corbyn, who is basically allergic to scrutiny and rarely deigns to do interviews, to lecture about openness.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    PopFair enough. I'm also impressed that he has published his tax returns too.I suspect he made it look a lot shadier than it actually was by not saying all that initially and telling half truths.Out of interest what did the Icelandic pm do then which forced him to resign and should he have?I would say cameron having to publish his tax returns is a good thing which hopefully sets a precedent of transparency.
    This.
 
 
 
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