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Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils?
    Yes
    261
    36.15%
    No
    461
    63.85%

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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    (Edited)

    Assuming this interpretation, he's countering his own point. If male changing rooms are unsuitable for girls identifying as boys because these kids are going to leer at them, they're better off in the female changing rooms (where they're supposed to be anyway).
    Actually, I was talking in regards to uniform policies being biased in favour of males, as I guarantee females have more restrictions placed on them. I've heard countless times that a girl has been sent home from school because part of her shoulder/upper thigh is visible and it would distract males from learning.
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Actually, I was talking in regards to uniform policies being biased in favour of males, as I guarantee females have more restrictions placed on them. I've heard countless times that a girl has been sent home from school because part of her shoulder/upper thigh is visible and it would distract males from learning.

    My school is heavily sexist, towards males It is utter bs. they have a better policy than us, they can wear skirts but boys cant wear shorts in the summer so we are all super hot
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    My school is heavily sexist, towards males It is utter bs. they have a better policy than us, they can wear skirts but boys cant wear shorts in the summer so we are all super hot
    We also have this problem. That many of us went to the head and complained about it the policy has changed. I suggest you try the same if its that bad?
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    We also have this problem. That many of us went to the head and complained about it the policy has changed. I suggest you try the same if its that bad?
    Nope already tried, the girls are allowed to walk around our building but we cannot go around theirs unless we are escorted. the girls have chosen everything and made a mess of the prom, our committee that I am in the girls now joined and it has gone to the ****. they put signs around our school saying that all men are sexist. they held a assembly about feminism.

    The girls have nearly ruined everything and every time we complain oh it is sexist
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    Okay, so this is kind of long, sorry.

    Personally, I believe they should, yes. More needs to be done to protect trans and non binary students. They have a hard enough time as teenagers as it is, without making it more uncomfortable for them by forcing them to either out themselves (if they're dressing as their gender but have to go in the toilet of the sex they were born with, for example) or forcing them to not be who they are and express their gender.

    I also think uniforms should be a) more comfortable for everyone, b) more 'liberal' and c) have more options for gender neutrality (ie shorts, skirts, trousers, non see through leggings being allowed etc). This is my ideal uniform policy that accommodates all genders, makes people more comfortable, accommodates different budgets and allows high schoolers to be a bit more modern while maintaining a uniform. It's just my take on what the best course of action would be:

    Give all genders all of the following options.

    Top half: A shirt and tie specific to the school or
    A polo shirt specific to the school.

    A jumper with the school logo (one colour for the majority, one colour for year 11 or equivalent) or
    A blazer with the school logo

    Bottom half:Always in black
    Black trousers - in chosen fit, but not skin tight for practicality and for protection of all genders from bullying and harassment for appearance, because despite the fact it shouldn't, bullying and harassment does happen and we should be trying to prevent it in all ways we can, as education will not always have an impact.
    Black skirt - in chosen fit, but not skin tight for the same reason. .
    Black shorts - made with the school logo by the school shop in 2 fits (one more traditionally masculine, one more traditionally feminine - all genders can choose which they want to wear). Must be worn with the logo to prevent too much variation in uniform.
    Black jeggings/stretchy trousers/leggings - okay, so hear me out here. some softer, slightly more informal trousers like the average jeggings or treggings, non see through, that are going to be more comfortable and look good with a polo shirt and or jumper.

    PE kit:
    One kit for all genders here. Student chooses. Either black leggings (non see through, with the logo on) or black tracksuit bottoms (plain), or black shorts in the summer (female identifying pupils may wear a black sports skirt over the shorts if they wish) with a sports polo shirt in the school's colours with the logo on, and a hoodie, either zip up or over the head, with the school logo on the back.

    And what harm would it do to have All Gender bathrooms and changing rooms with cubicles *in addition to* the gendered changing rooms and bathrooms?

    To all those speaking about the concerns with rape and sexual assault, I understand what you're saying. Aside from educating people with right from wrong surrounding consent, the toilets would have cubicles and no urinals, and the changing rooms would have cubicles (I think not having these is the single biggest downfall of most school changing rooms anyway) to add to privacy. In addition, perhaps a policy where any cis people wishing to use the changing rooms should have to gain parental permission to use them and be monitored (by having reviews of whether or not they should be allowed to continue using them every so often).

    Alternatively, and I prefer this idea, you could just let trans people use the bathroom and changing rooms of their gender and provide cubicles in said changing rooms for everyone as well as a communal space, and lockers for people to keep their stuff in (which I am of the opinion should be done anyway). With regards to non binary people, either give them the choice of using the gendered changing rooms they feel best applies to them, or provide them with a third gender neutral changing room they can use with cubicles, and apply the same policy in terms of cis people getting permission to be allowed to use it, and give trans people the choice of whether they would like to use their gendered changing room/bathroom or the gender neutral one.
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    You don't actually believe this, do you?
    As it is so implausible, would you like to offer an alternative explanation?
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    (Original post by danwbell)
    As it is so implausible, would you like to offer an alternative explanation?
    Vilain or Guarramilon (I don't recall which one) found that an exposure to abnormal chemicals in the womb had an adverse effect on the development of gender. The other one found that the BSTc region of the brain mirrored the gender they identified as, not what they were assigned at birth
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Vilain or Guarramilon (I don't recall which one) found that an exposure to abnormal chemicals in the womb had an adverse effect on the development of gender. The other one found that the BSTc region of the brain mirrored the gender they identified as, not what they were assigned at birth
    Your assumption that a region of the brain can determine 'which gender someone identifies with' suggests innate, biological mechanisms which determine whether someone wants to wear a skirt or trousers? Really?

    'Gender'*** is an entirely social construct, how can a biological factor influence 'gender identity' when in reality it is an entirely arbitrary and man made thing?


    *** By this I mean the stereotyped associated behaviours and norms of each gender, not a person's biological sex.
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    (Original post by danwbell)
    Your assumption that a region of the brain can determine 'which gender someone identifies with' suggests innate, biological mechanisms which determine whether someone wants to wear a skirt or trousers? Really?

    'Gender'*** is an entirely social construct, how can a biological factor influence 'gender identity' when in reality it is an entirely arbitrary and man made thing?


    *** By this I mean the stereotyped associated behaviours and norms of each gender, not a person's biological sex.
    Society enforces gender roles, not gender. A person is trans if they have gender dysphoria, a mental condition, so there has to be a biological influence of some sort
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Society enforces gender roles, not gender. A person is trans if they have gender dysphoria, a mental condition, so there has to be a biological influence of some sort
    No, it is a cognitive distortion


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    (Original post by paul514)
    No, it is a cognitive distortion


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    Either way its still a neurological thing?
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    There has been gender divisions since time began - according to the education I've received anyway - why are some people determined to turn us into a generation of 'its'? My other question is -if gender is a social construct, why do we have hormones that define gender specific tasks for example women wider pelvis designed for child bearing and men a skeletal structure that is in general terms stronger and larger than a females?
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Either way its still a neurological thing?
    In that case so is racism


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    I haven't read this entire thread and so I apologise for my ignorance, but men who've transformed into women (but still have a willy), normally, which toilets do they use?
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    (Original post by paul514)
    In that case so is racism


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    Did you just compare being trans to being racist?
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Society enforces gender roles, not gender. A person is trans if they have gender dysphoria, a mental condition, so there has to be a biological influence of some sort
    Just want to clarify that you can be trans without having dysphoria!
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    There has been gender divisions since time began - according to the education I've received anyway - why are some people determined to turn us into a generation of 'its'?
    I don't think many people necessarily want a 'generation of "its"'! Just because there have been gender divisions historically most certainly doesn't mean that they're a good thing. Depends what you mean by 'divisions' I guess.


    My other question is -if gender is a social construct, why do we have hormones that define gender specific tasks for example women wider pelvis designed for child bearing and men a skeletal structure that is in general terms stronger and larger than a females?
    I don't think any of those things affects whether we should view gender as a social construct, as they tend to be associated with assigned sex instead. Still, even considering sex alone, some men have wider pelvises than some women and some women have stronger and larger frames than some men!
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Did you just compare being trans to being racist?
    You said it was biologically linked I said it was cognitive distortion then you said either way it's neurologically linked.

    I said in that case so is racism, I could have used homophobia or any other number of terms.

    The point is you are talking about the heart of a debate that is never ending does a chemical cause a thought or a thought cause a chemical.

    The chemical is biological and the thought is cognition.


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    (Original post by SomaliSodomy)
    They should accommodate them by putting them in mental asylums.
    what a ridiculous suggestion
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    To be perfectly honest, I don't even understand why this is a question. Trans people are a member of our society and of course they should be accommodated for.
 
 
 
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