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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    ??? Firstly there are science miracles in the quran and even non-muslims agree there arguments are for example it was suggested before and the quran copied it or something similar. Research into quran and science and you will see. I will not argue with you here since you don't seem to have the knowledge.

    My point is if you only know 2% of everything ,as i am sure you do not know everything, doesnt that mean that the 98% could include that God exists.
    There aren't. Most non-Muslims do not agree, you have just made that up. If they genuinely agreed then they would convert.

    That's just the God of the Gaps fallacy. Our limited knowledge doesn't make "God did it" a plausible explanation.
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    (Original post by Bliss_)
    There's a difference between imagination and faith Bruh
    Faith is what helps you hold onto your beliefs. You left faith and faith left you. If only you read more about Islam you would've fallen in love with it more and more everyday.
    No hate btw but just give it a try again.
    So sorry if I bothered you in any way. <3




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    Islam has a lot of sexism and homophobia in it...fall in love? yeah, whatever.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    There aren't. Most non-Muslims do not agree, you have just made that up. If they genuinely agreed then they would convert.

    That's just the God of the Gaps fallacy. Our limited knowledge doesn't make "God did it" a plausible explanation.
    I did not include a measurement to the amount of non-muslims who believe that and if i did i am false my point is SOME ,VERY LITTLE actually believe it.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    I did not include a measurement to the amount of non-muslims who believe that and if i did i am false my point is SOME ,VERY LITTLE actually believe it.
    And most do not. There's no point continuing with this specific point because we're clearly not going to agree. You think there is legitimate science in there and I do not.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The Quran does not mention the Big Bang. It makes vague and ambiguous claims about the heavens and Earth being joined and then parted which in any case is wrong. The Earth wasn't present during the Big Bang because planets didn't form until billions of years after the initial expansion.

    Well from that we conclude that they came together into a single point which is what big bang is. Your point is the heavens and 'Earth' came together. This is a prime example of translation, we might not know what it means in arabic and we got the closest word to tranlate into english. It could be a methophor or something , I do not know but if it actually means heavens and earths then yes it would not make sense.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Indeed you can and no informed atheist would deny this.

    The fine tuning argument isn't convincing because it can easily be explained by the anthropic principle.
    The argument that could support the design of the universe could be Isaac Newton's argument on the design of the thumb. William Paley also talked about the watch and how it's so complex.
    The universe is so complex it could not have happened by chance. The world is designed so perfectly it must have a designer which much be God.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    And most do not. There's no point continuing with this specific point because we're clearly not going to agree. You think there is legitimate science in there and I do not.
    There is though? so what is the science in there just some bs theorys which will be disproven in the future?
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    There is though? so what is the science in there just some bs theorys which will be disproven in the future?
    There isn't any miraculous or unknown science in there, that's been the topic of this exchange.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    There isn't any miraculous or unknown science in there, that's been the topic of this exchange.
    If i give you proof would you accept it? If it makes sense obviously.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    The argument that could support the design of the universe could be Isaac Newton's argument on the design of the thumb. William Paley also talked about the watch and how it's so complex.
    The universe is so complex it could not have happened by chance. The world is designed so perfectly it must have a designer which much be God.
    Paley's watchmaker argument has been thoroughly debunked and I'm sure you can find the refutations easily enough on the Internet. Again, fine tuning is explained by the anthropic principle, there is nothing perfect about it. Life in an alternative form could have just as easily arisen with different constants.

    False, it could have happened by chance. Immensely improbable events occur all the time. You can't use the improbability argument to prove God exists because you haven't actually provided any evidence for his existence, but trying to prove he exists thrush deduction which doesn't work in the case of a deity.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    If i give you proof would you accept it? If it makes sense obviously.
    If it makes sense but I've been exposed to virtually all of the Quran's so-called miracles before so I'm not expecting you to come up with anything new.
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    The top 3 reasons I always give are:
    1) Scientific inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Quran.
    2) The misogynistic and sadistically cruel God of the Abrahamic religions.
    3) Practices I could never find acceptable such as slavery being allowed. Sure it was the norm back then but if God was all-knowing he would have known that owning another human and keeping them captive against their will is wrong.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    Well from that we conclude that they came together into a single point which is what big bang is. Your point is the heavens and 'Earth' came together. This is a prime example of translation, we might not know what it means in arabic and we got the closest word to tranlate into english. It could be a methophor or something , I do not know but if it actually means heavens and earths then yes it would not make sense.
    You can infer no such thing because it is simply false. The Earth was not present and previous civilisations had already made claims about the universe's birth in similar ways. You are just proving my point about desperate attempts to try and manipulate vague and ambiguous language to match modern science. It won't cut the mustard, especially as Muslims weren't saying anything about that verse until AFTER the Big Bang was scientifically proven.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    The top 3 reasons I always give are:
    1) Scientific inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Quran.
    2) The misogynistic and sadistically cruel God of the Abrahamic religions.
    3) Practices I could never find acceptable such as slavery being allowed. Sure it was the norm back then but if God was all-knowing he would have known that owning another human and keeping them captive against their will is wrong.
    Ameen to number 3. Laws on alcohol got changed why didn't he do it for slavery or better yet, abolish slavery from the start. But no one wants to look at all those that suffered, imagine being a slave to someone and a Muslim...seems like hell on earth tbh. (Because the situation you're in is a-ok to God)
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You can infer no such thing because it is simply false. The Earth was not present and previous civilisations had already made claims about the universe's birth in similar ways. You are just proving my point about desperate attempts to try and manipulate vague and ambiguous language to match modern science. It won't cut the mustard, especially as Muslims weren't saying anything about that verse until AFTER the Big Bang was scientifically proven.

    I will not argue the claim anymore simply because I dont know more about it however most things islam proves after it was brought up simply because we could not infer it before as the quran is so complicated. Its like having a math answer and the working out was scribbles. Someone comes and gives a working out and answer and then someone else looks and the scribbles and compares it with the working out. He started to see some numbers and such appearing in both and therefore the first answer was only acknowledged when people understood why it came to it.Basically The quran is so complicated that when we get some logical proof by scientists we start to link it with the quran and most time it makes sense.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Paley's watchmaker argument has been thoroughly debunked and I'm sure you can find the refutations easily enough on the Internet. Again, fine tuning is explained by the anthropic principle, there is nothing perfect about it. Life in an alternative form could have just as easily arisen with different constants.

    False, it could have happened by chance. Immensely improbable events occur all the time. You can't use the improbability argument to prove God exists because you haven't actually provided any evidence for his existence, but trying to prove he exists thrush deduction which doesn't work in the case of a deity.
    hmm
    Lourdes, France - Place believed to create miracles for the sick and dying.

    A male( forgot his name) was suffering from a long term illness went there hoping for a miracle. It was impossible for the man to walk. That night, he woke up and saw Mary, the man thought he was dreaming. Mary relieved the man of his suffering. The man didn't believe for a second he could walk but he got up and stood on his two feet and started walking.

    Argument....
    There's no scientific evidence backing this but this may prove to some people that God exists.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    hmm
    Lourdes, France - Place believed to create miracles for the sick and dying.

    A male( forgot his name) was suffering from a long term illness went there hoping for a miracle. It was impossible for the man to walk. That night, he woke up and saw Mary, the man thought he was dreaming. Mary relieved the man of his suffering. The man didn't believe for a second he could walk but he got up and stood on his two feet and started walking.

    Argument....
    There's no scientific evidence backing this but this may prove to some people that God exists.
    I'm sure you're aware that anecdotal evidence doesn't prove God because people from all religions have experiences confirming their beliefs and we know that they can't all be right. If that's enough for them to believe, fine, but they can't expect the rest of us to believe without proper evidence.
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    Love the reference to Anthony Flew
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Ameen to number 3. Laws on alcohol got changed why didn't he do it for slavery or better yet, abolish slavery from the start. But no one wants to look at all those that suffered, imagine being a slave to someone and a Muslim...seems like hell on earth tbh. (Because the situation you're in is a-ok to God)
    Think of it this way , if islam came and said ' no more slaves' then people will hate on it so much it would never grow (slavery was so big in that culture). Islam allowed slaves to have FAR better lives and promoted to free them therefore the religion would be accepted by some people due to its fairness in that society and as the religion grew more slaves would be free resulting in slavery to decrease and later banish. Basically slaves where allowed as it was so big in that culture but promoted to free slaves and as the religion grew the slaves would decrease and at the same time cause society not to argue , it very clever if you think about it.
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    Islam has a lot of sexism and homophobia in it...fall in love? yeah, whatever.
    lol some people just make it seem that way. if it was sexist, racist and a homophobic relegion who was against freedom of women i'd be the first one to doubt.
 
 
 
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