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    (Original post by Lawliettt)
    Engineering is slightly different. The engineering branch with the most creativity is civil imo. But there's no valid way compare creativity in it to that in a humanitiy so calling one better is pointless.
    Engineering can be hugely creative. During my degree, we were very often encouraged to come up with different solutions to problems, not just the "default" answer. Anything that solves the problem.
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    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    http://www.cbi.org.uk/media/1514978/...urvey_2012.pdf

    In the UK, 80% of employers don’t have specific subject requirements for their graduate roles, according to CBI/Pearson Education and Skills Survey 2012 (above). But the subject you choose does make a difference to them. 72% say that they are on the lookout for graduates from certain subjects (compared with 46% who say degree class is one of the most important criteria). Fully 50% of employers say that they are looking for graduates from Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) degrees. 17% want students with Business degrees. Only 2% want linguists, 2% social scientists, and 1% arts students.

    Objectively, that suggests that quantitative STEM subjects give you far more career flexibility and hiring prospects than other courses.

    Please retort accordingly.
    Damn, I've always heard it was 70%.. Even more reason not to fret too much about degree choice.

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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    You don't understand how humanities essays are marked. It doesn't matter whether or not the assessor agrees with your opinion or not; it's all about how you put your ideas across and assess evidence. With maths, it's very cookie-cutter, right or wrong, no in between. The reason why so many people get high grades in maths is because it is formulaic and repetitive.
    The reason why it is harder to get a high mark on a humanities essay is because the subjects tend to be incredibly subjective and there is no definitive answer per say. This also means you can ******** your way through a lot of things with minimal reading (especially in degrees like business, marketing etc.).

    The reason why it is easier to get a high mark in maths (and other STEM subjects) is because you either know the material and know how to apply it or you do not. You can not ******** your way through a maths exam as you can in a business/marketing essay. If you can solve the problem, you solve it.

    End of story.
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    By looking at uni rankings
    I see, so if I studied Maths at Manchester for example, it wouldn't count as a STEM degree ????? huh?
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    This forum has been quick to dismiss people who claim that STEM and non-STEM subjects are on the same level. Well let me break it to people who study non-STEM subjects; STEM is superior in every aspect.
    Here's why:
    - STEM grads earn way more money than non STEM grads(ST and LT)
    - STEM students have better grades than non STEM students (on average)
    - STEM grads have greater career prospects than non STEM grads
    - STEM grads are more intelligent since their degrees need more thinking ability.
    - In the future, STEM grads will be more in demand since computers and AI can easily replace the jobs of a non STEM grad.
    - Careers such as high finance actually have a preference of STEM (and econ/finance) over other non STEM grads. Why? Because STEM grads have a more respectable degree.
    - STEM grads can do the job a non STEM grad does (perhaps with a little bit of training)
    - Many non STEM degrees such as languages can be done by STEM students so long as they choose the appropriate modules at uni.

    Lets be honest, the people who say "STEM and non STEM degrees are equal!" are those who do non STEM degrees or A levels and are very insecure. This has now led to STEM students and non STEM students degrees look equal, which is an insult to STEM students. A maths grad and english grad are not equal, sorry.

    (Economics/Finance are also basically STEM since they have a lot of maths in their degrees)
    'STEM is objectively superior to non-STEM according to these subjective criteria i invented'

    try again :holmes:
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    (Original post by Broscientist)
    The reason why it is harder to get a high mark on a humanities essay is because the subjects tend to be incredibly subjective and there is no definitive answer per say. This also means you can ******** your way through a lot of things with minimal reading (especially in degrees like business, marketing etc.).
    Uh, no? It's more difficult because there is no definitive answer. You need to present ideas and thoughts appropriately and concisely. You need to be creative in your approach. No one can tell you 'Do it this way, or you haven't done it right.' You also couldn't get through on 'minimal reading'. You've made that up. You have experience in Humanities degrees, do you? Speaking from experience? Didn't think so.

    (Original post by Broscientist)
    The reason why it is easier to get a high mark in maths (and other STEM subjects) is because you either know the material and know how to apply it or you do not. You can not ******** your way through a maths exam as you can in a business/marketing essay. If you can solve the problem, you solve it.

    End of story.
    So in other words, it's easier because there are definitive answers, and you find those answers using cookie-cutter, repetitive methods with no creativity. Just go through the motions and you'll find the answer. Go through step 1, step 2, step 3, etc. Easy as pie.
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    (Original post by Broscientist)
    The reason why it is harder to get a high mark on a humanities essay is because the subjects tend to be incredibly subjective and there is no definitive answer per say. This also means you can ******** your way through a lot of things with minimal reading (especially in degrees like business, marketing etc.).

    The reason why it is easier to get a high mark in maths (and other STEM subjects) is because you either know the material and know how to apply it or you do not. You can not ******** your way through a maths exam as you can in a business/marketing essay. If you can solve the problem, you solve it.

    End of story.
    give me three years of past papers and solutions two days before the exam and i'll get in a 2.1 in any maths module you like
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    (Original post by Implication)
    'STEM is objectively superior to non-STEM according to these subjective criteria i invented'

    try again :holmes:
    I chuckled hard.
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    (Original post by Broscientist)
    The reason why it is harder to get a high mark on a humanities essay is because the subjects tend to be incredibly subjective and there is no definitive answer per say. This also means you can ******** your way through a lot of things with minimal reading (especially in degrees like business, marketing etc.).

    The reason why it is easier to get a high mark in maths (and other STEM subjects) is because you either know the material and know how to apply it or you do not. You can not ******** your way through a maths exam as you can in a business/marketing essay. If you can solve the problem, you solve it.

    End of story.
    Yep. The grading of humanities has a lower bound (you can ******** enough to pass) but also an upper bound (you will have to be a genius to reach 90+ marks, while technical non-essay based subjects found in STEM have no upper or lower bound, meaning that you don't need to be the next Einstein to hit 100/100 in an assignment but you won't be able to ******** your way to a pass.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Yep. The grading of humanities has a lower bound (you can ******** enough to pass) but also an upper bound (you will have to be a genius to reach 90+ marks, while technical non-essay based subjects found in STEM have no upper or lower bound, meaning that you don't need to be the next Einstein to hit 100/100 in an assignment but you won't be able to ******** your way to a pass.
    Absolutely on the money.
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    someone needs to make this guy sit through dead poets society
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    (Original post by STEMisSuperior.)
    This forum has been quick to dismiss people who claim that STEM and non-STEM subjects are on the same level. Well let me break it to people who study non-STEM subjects; STEM is superior in every aspect.
    Here's why:
    - STEM grads earn way more money than non STEM grads(ST and LT)
    - STEM students have better grades than non STEM students (on average)
    - STEM grads have greater career prospects than non STEM grads
    - STEM grads are more intelligent since their degrees need more thinking ability.
    - In the future, STEM grads will be more in demand since computers and AI can easily replace the jobs of a non STEM grad.
    - Careers such as high finance actually have a preference of STEM (and econ/finance) over other non STEM grads. Why? Because STEM grads have a more respectable degree.
    - STEM grads can do the job a non STEM grad does (perhaps with a little bit of training)
    - Many non STEM degrees such as languages can be done by STEM students so long as they choose the appropriate modules at uni.

    Lets be honest, the people who say "STEM and non STEM degrees are equal!" are those who do non STEM degrees or A levels and are very insecure. This has now led to STEM students and non STEM students degrees look equal, which is an insult to STEM students. A maths grad and english grad are not equal, sorry.

    (Economics/Finance are also basically STEM since they have a lot of maths in their degrees)
    Unless they bother to get into a decent career... which is the same for everyone.
    In STEM related subjects.
    Meh slightly agree with this
    And non-STEM students have better abilities elsewhere.
    So will a lot of STEM related careers.
    And other careers prefer certain non-STEM subjects.
    Same the other way around in some cases. Also my technical modules in civil engineering will most definitely help me in becoming a translator for those in large companies.
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    You also couldn't get through on 'minimal reading'. You've made that up. You have experience in Humanities degrees, do you? Speaking from experience? Didn't think so.
    I do actually. My first degree was Business Management in my home country, now I am doing CS in the UK (currently second semester first year). That is why I mentioned business/marketing in particular - I do have a direct experience with it.

    I can distinctly remember acing my Human Resources exam by doing minimal reading (got the equivalent of a first). So I do have experience of both worlds. You seem to be very eager on this argument of "you have not done it so you do not know what you are taking about)". That is fine... as long as you apply the same logic to yourself as well.

    No need to attack me though. Don't think I am typing this stuff with negative feelings/intent. I am just having a nice debate.
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    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    http://www.cbi.org.uk/media/1514978/...urvey_2012.pdf

    In the UK, 80% of employers don’t have specific subject requirements for their graduate roles, according to CBI/Pearson Education and Skills Survey 2012 (above). But the subject you choose does make a difference to them. 72% say that they are on the lookout for graduates from certain subjects (compared with 46% who say degree class is one of the most important criteria). Fully 50% of employers say that they are looking for graduates from Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) degrees. 17% want students with Business degrees. Only 2% want linguists, 2% social scientists, and 1% arts students.

    Objectively, that suggests that quantitative STEM subjects give you far more career flexibility and hiring prospects than other courses.

    Please retort accordingly.
    'STEM qualifications alone are not enough - many employers find that applicants lack general workplace experience (42%) and are weak in employability skills (39%).'

    'About a fifth of graduate-level jobs need applicants to have studied a specific discipline at university, but in recruiting for other roles employers prefer graduates holding STEM degrees (favoured by 50% of employers).' - The thing to take from this is that for jobs where the degree you took doesn't even matter, 50% prefer STEM graduates, and 50% do not. Seems pretty even to me. I want to stress that this is for jobs without a specific degree requirement, i.e. not chemical engineering or whatever. This is for regular, ordinary jobs, and the preference split between STEM graduates and non-STEM graduates is exactly equal.

    'The highest median graduate starting salaries are paid for legal roles (£24,000) and engineering and science roles (£23,000).' - The highest paid median graduate job salary is not in a STEM role.

    'Employability skills are the most important factor taken into account when businesses recruit graduates - four in five employers (81%) value these skills above other factors such as degree subject (70%) and class (46%).' - Only TSR gets so antsy about degree subject, employers care more about your actual workplace skills.

    'Among those firms that need employees with STEM skills and knowledge, two in five (42%) currently have difficulties recruiting staff.' - When you consider this in accordance with the fact that 42% of STEM employees lack general workplace experience, and 39% are weak in employability skills, this would suggest that there is not actually a shortage of STEM workers; the reason why employers are finding it difficult to recruit is because STEM graduates lack employability skills.

    Please retort accordingly.

    Though I will commend you on actually using numbers. I said that OP didn't understand what 'objective' meant, and I stand by that because he was just throwing statements around without proof and calling them facts. So thank you for contributing something actually meaningful.
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    (Original post by Broscientist)
    I do actually.
    Oh shït.

    ABORT, ABORT!
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    (Original post by Comus)
    I hate to be 'that guy' but...


    You will notice that I qualified my suggestion with the assumption that such things could be properly defined and measured, your use of 'intelligence' as a criteria suffers from similar problems.



    What is use? What is usefulness? How does one adequately compre different uses? How does one give weight to each use? Why is usefullness desirable?


    Okay then, why is a high salary objectively desirable? Why is intelligence objectively desireable? Why is a career objectively desireable?
    You made the claim that there is something wrong with the criteria. What exactly did I claim? I said these criteria were suitable, You got an issue, you prove to me why it isnt. Stop dragging this. you say i claimed something yet YOU are questioning the criteria. Why would i suggest better criteria? I said mine was as good as possible

    STEM is useful because demand for these jobs are growing. The government actually encourage ppl to take up STEM degrees. STEM degrees are paid more. You know why? Supply is low hence showing it is more useful. 80% of jobs dont need a specific degree but an employer has a preference for STEM

    A higher salary means better value for money for the degree, higher standard of living. Everything else i have answered.

    Interesting, you are yet to suggest a better alternative criteria.
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    (Original post by Daniel9998)
    I see, so if I studied Maths at Manchester for example, it wouldn't count as a STEM degree ????? huh?
    Of course it does
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    Though I will commend you on actually using numbers. I said that OP didn't understand what 'objective' meant, and I stand by that because he was just throwing statements around without proof and calling them facts. So thank you for contributing something actually meaningful.
    Perhaps look at all my posts, you would see i provided links where necessary.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    'STEM is objectively superior to non-STEM according to these subjective criteria i invented'

    try again :holmes:
    Look at all my posts as well as posts from other users. Links have been given to objectively justify my points.

    try again.
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    What a boring world we would live in if everybody did stem, no artists, no writers etc. Also OP do you expect people who don't have an interest/ aptitude for STEM to not bother getting a degree, not bother actually doing something they enjoy.
 
 
 
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