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    (Original post by epage)
    and you have proof of that, do you? plenty of people have homophobic parents but they dont going around murdering gay people.
    do I have proof that islam mandates the execution of homosexuals? are you really that detatched from knowledge of modern religions that you don't even know this basic fact? islam mandates the execution of many groups, such as adulteresses, apostates, blasphemers etc. a simple google search will enlighten you; if my claim was unorthodox I would have given you a link but honestly this is like somebody saying "do you have proof that the religion's prophet was called mohammed?"

    and sure, but obviously their background of a hardline islamic ethos (from afghanistan) would have been very relevant to their motivations. you can't deny that.
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    Let's settle this.

    Yes it was a hate crime.

    Yes it was a terrorist attack on America.

    Yes religion is to blame

    Yes a lack of cultural adherence is to blame.

    Either way it's a tragedy and a terrible loss of life.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Don't make this about gays. This is an attack on Americans and all of America by an Islamic terrorist.
    :lol: - who happened to be gay. Grow up - this is just as much about LGBT people as it is the Americans at large.
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    (Original post by epage)
    yeah... it was and they were all humans but it DOES matter who the victims were. it shows that there is still homophobia in our society. the perp chose that club because it was the most popular gay club in orlando and because he wanted to kill gay people. thats important. dont erase that
    Our society?

    Nope, that's not true.
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    A terrible attack on the gay community.

    These kinds of hate crimes and terrorist attacks aren't going to stop anytime soon, but we can minimise the risk of them occurring. Firstly, the United States needs stricter gun control laws: people on the terrorism watchlist aren't barred from having guns, which is madness (although that wouldn't have stopped the terror attack at the black church in Charleston from occurring, nor the San Bernardino attack, because the suspects weren't on the watchlist). Ideally, guns would be completely banned in the United States, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

    Secondly, we should recognise that all ideologies and beliefs can lead people to do terrible things. Islam has its extremists, just as right-wing, anti-government ideologies have their extremists; indeed, domestic terrorism by right-wing anti-government extremists is as big a threat, if not a bigger threat, than jihadi terrorism.

    Third, we should identify how best to combat jihadi terrorism. Jihadists have been able to amplify their abhorrent ideologies in ways that, say, Buddhist or Hindu extremists (yes, they exist) haven't, by taking advantage of sociopolitical strife in the Middle East. Dictators in the Middle East have continued to anger and oppress people for decades, largely supported by the West, and our own interventions in the Middle East have demonstrably, as intelligence experts have said, contributed to a rise in terrorism in the Middle East.

    Robert Pape, a prominent political scientist at the University of Chicago, analysed every known case of suicide terrorism between 1980 and 2003, concluding: “there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world's religions... Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland”.

    He later expanded on this work by looking at all of the suicide terrorist attacks between 2004 and 2009. He found that “overall, foreign military occupation accounts for 98.5% -- and the deployment of American combat forces for 92% -- of all the 1,833 suicide terrorist attacks around the world in the past six years.” Tellingly, between 1980 and 2003, less than 15% of suicide terrorist attacks were aimed at the United States and its interests; between 2004 and 2009, after the invasion and occupation of Iraq and the United States' continued presence in Afghanistan, 92% of suicide terrorist attacks were aimed at the United States.

    And, once extremists in the Middle East have taken advantage of these situations, they can go global, and try to radicalise young, disenfranchised people who seek a stable identity, as they have done with many people who have travelled to Syria. Richard Barrett, former director of global counter-terrorism operations for MI6, writes: “Isis projects a strong identity and sense of purpose and it appeals in particular to people who lack both; it offers them the opportunity to be part of something new, regardless of their gender or abilities."

    Fourth, we should not be afraid to criticise conservative interpretations of religions, and Islam in particular is a very conservative religion at the moment. We need to work with liberal and reformist Muslims to discount and discredit not only the views of extremists, but also to promote more socially liberal views too within the Islamic community, just as the main Christian churches have reformed extensively their views on so many issues. The latter in particular will be difficult, given that very socially conservative views continue to exist in Christianity (extensively in the United States) and Judaism.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    A terrible attack on the gay community.

    These kinds of hate crimes and terrorist attacks aren't going to stop anytime soon, but we can minimise the risk of them occurring. Firstly, the United States needs stricter gun control laws

    Stricter gun laws won't stop terrorists... they'll just find another way.
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    Stricter gun laws won't stop terrorists... they'll just find another way.


    These people seem to forget that the guy according to the authorities was wearing a suicide vest and a small bomb, so if he didn't have a gun surely he could just blow himself up?

    I mean how many times did Osama Bin Laden use or need guns on 9/11?

    Did the Lee rigby killer use or need guns?

    Did the 7/7 bombers use or need guns?
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    :lol: - who happened to be gay. Grow up - this is just as much about LGBT people as it is the Americans at large.
    You're always telling people to grow up yet you're the one who is forcing everyone to believe what you believe.
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    Stricter gun laws won't stop terrorists... they'll just find another way.
    No, but it makes it a lot harder to commit attacks of this type.

    You have to think in the perspective of one of these people. They may not have even considered doing such a think if guns weren't so readily available.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Don't make this about gays. This is an attack on Americans and all of America by an Islamic terrorist.
    These people were targeted for being gay. This was a clear attack on the LGBT community and try all you like, you can't sweep that under the carpet I'm afraid.
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    How many more deaths will it take until people start to realise Islam has a serious violence problem?
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    There's a reason why this doesn't happen in the UK. They need to change the gun laws.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    You're always telling people to grow up yet you're the one who is forcing everyone to believe what you believe.
    No - this isn't a belief, it's fact. Gays were targeted, at a gay venue, for being gay. This was made clear and plainly put by the gunman's own father.

    Don't have to be anti-queer all your life.
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    (Original post by student.feed)
    There's a reason why this doesn't happen in the UK. They need to change the gun laws.
    It happened in France.

    And guns are illegal to own there.

    You lose

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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Our society?

    Nope, that's not true.
    are you kidding me right now. I'm gay. you know what I have to listen to every day at school? people naming things 'gay' as an insult. I have to listen to people throw around the words 'f*ggot' and 'd*ke' like the words 'stupid' or 'dumb'. I have been called both and it hurts more each time that people dont understand the impact. I had to wake up today to discover that some idiot valued his life over mine, and many others of the community. I had to read that someone was on their way to pride in LA with a car full of guns after I was planning to ask my recently out friend to pride london. I have to listen to idiots like you pretend homophobia isnt an issue.

    are you gay? have you personally experienced homophobia? I doubt it because you dont understand that heteronormativity is still an issue and that gay people have to personally out themselves to every new person they speak to because people still presume everyone is straight unless it is obvious they are not
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    (Original post by ESPORTIVA LUTA)
    It happened in France.

    And guns are illegal to own there.

    You lose

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    just because it doesn't stop it, it doesn't mean you shouldn't take that measure

    there's a sizeable chance that this gunman committed this shooting because of how easily guns are brought
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    (Original post by student.feed)
    There's a reason why this doesn't happen in the UK. They need to change the gun laws.
    Guns are legal in the UK, you just need a license and police clearance for them.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Then, we should also talk about who the perpetrator was- a Muslim. Don't erase that.
    Not erasing it, it just isnt as important to me as it is that he killed LGBT community members
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    (Original post by epage)
    are you kidding me right now. I'm gay. you know what I have to listen to every day at school? people naming things 'gay' as an insult. I have to listen to people throw around the words 'f*ggot' and 'd*ke' like the words 'stupid' or 'dumb'. I have been called both and it hurts more each time that people dont understand the impact. I had to wake up today to discover that some idiot valued his life over mine, and many others of the community. I had to read that someone was on their way to pride in LA with a car full of guns after I was planning to ask my recently out friend to pride london. I have to listen to idiots like you pretend homophobia isnt an issue.

    are you gay? have you personally experienced homophobia? I doubt it because you dont understand that heteronormativity is still an issue and that gay people have to personally out themselves to every new person they speak to because people still presume everyone is straight unless it is obvious they are not
    A few comments are not comparable with mass murder.
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    (Original post by epage)
    Not erasing it, it just isnt as important to me as it is that he killed LGBT community members

    What a selfish point of view you have.

    You are seemingly only bothered as the victims were gay, and don't care as much about who caused the incident, meaning that you are not too bothered about stopping future attacks. As I have said before, most of the victims would have been liberals and have partly led to their own deaths.
 
 
 
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