There is no evidence for God

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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I know you haven't. But others in this thread have. And that is what I find irritating, I have to admit.

    And yes, I actually understand perfectly well in that it is just faith and doesn't need evidence. But as I said, what irritates me is the very fact that so many people mistake their faith for evidence and go around pretending and telling others it is evidence.

    If anything, your post just confirmed that many religious people don't understand themselves what religion really is.
    Well you now know where "blind faith" comes from!

    I think a lot of religious people have their own definition and own connection with religion. My post is not on behalf of anyone other than myself and what I stand for. Religion, to me, is a personal and spiritual connection between oneself and your deity.

    Some like to abuse the power of religion has on society and some like to celebrate it with others, whilst others keep it relatively secret.

    But, this thread is an age-old debate that will be alive and strong for the next 50 years and more!
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    As an atheist I assure you there -IS- evidence for the existence of a supernatural theistic deity.
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    No but because you have sinned. he Bible answers these questions. I can't say i have all them but from most of the passages i have read from the Bible, i have concluded it has an answer to almost any question you could ask.
    Catholics sin all the time.

    Why should a confession and ten ave marias absolve them?

    Not to mention, how did the poster you just quoted sin? All he said was he doesn't believe you. You replied "no, but because you have sinned". How do you know that? Or even more general, suppose a person hasn't sinned, at all, but does not believe in God. Will he go to hell?
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    Have you seen an evolved human?
    There are a number of problems with this comment:

    1) Strictly speaking there is no such thing as an "evolved human" because evolution never stops. We aren't the end product, in another 100 billion years, assuming we haven't become extinct, we'll probably look very different than we do now.

    2) Secondly, you don't need to directly observe an event to know it happened AS LONG as there is still empirical evidence it happened, that's how history works. By its very nature you cannot observe the evolution of most species because it occurs over such a long time period, but we know it happened for a fact because it is supported by all the fossil, molecular, genetic, physiological and biological evidence. In fact, there are a couple of species whose evolution we HAVE directly observed.

    3) Next, you're inadvertently dismantling your own argument. By implying that evolution doesn't occur because it cannot usually be observed directly you are then implying that God doesn't exist because it cannot be directly observed either.

    I'm in no way discrediting my argument on probability. I said there is no conspicuous evidence of God but that does not mean he isn't responsible for the existence of the Universe.
    But it doesn't mean he is, especially when there is not an iota of evidence for his existence. This argument of yours is essentially meaningless because I can insert any fictional creature and make the exact same statement:

    "There is no conspicuous evidence for a giant, invisible, magical duck, but that doesn't mean it isn't responsible for the creation of the universe."

    The uniqueness of the Earth and the existence of the Universe creates an especially low probability, which i believe was the result of God's actions. Similar to the discovery of Gravitational Waves, there was no evidence of it but we now know they clearly exist. Personal experience i.e unique to me. I could tell you i felt God's presence but you would never believe that, i could tell you that i had a spiritually related dream but you would never believe that. But what i might have felt or saw was real, and for that reason i believe.
    Since when was uniqueness proof of supernatural creation? Besides, it's likely there are other planets out there that closely resemble ours. Even if there aren't, it doesn't prove God exists.

    Like i said to begin with it is all about FAITH. People had faith that Gravitational Waves (despite Einstein's doubt) existed and we now know they exist, that is the same with God have FAITH in him and soon enough he will reveal himself to you and everyone.
    I'm not sure that's an honest comparison. Natural laws tend to work in predictable ways and so there is not much blind faith involved in postulating the likely existence of a phenomenon that would be a perfectly natural and expected consequence of a confirmed natural law. Anyway, scientists would generally not profess a certainty of its existence until it had been empirically confirmed.

    It's fine if you believe in God because of faith, so just be honest that that's your reason. It's much better than pretending there is actual scientific evidence for him and then being unable to provide any if requested.
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    (Original post by The Empire Odyssey)
    Well you now know where "blind faith" comes from!

    I think a lot of religious people have their own definition and own connection with religion. My post is not on behalf of anyone other than myself and what I stand for. Religion, to me, is a personal and spiritual connection between oneself and your deity.

    Some like to abuse the power of religion has on society and some like to celebrate it with others, whilst others keep it relatively secret.

    But, this thread is an age-old debate that will be alive and strong for the next 50 years and more!
    Ok, maybe I should not have quoted you in my reply.
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    Faith maybe? they'd rather believe in something and pray for their suffering. Like a placebo effect. Just gives them hope.
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    (Original post by Retropattern)
    Look yeah if you think my point is rubbish, fine, cause i think your whole outlook is rubbish. How the heck do you know anything about people before religion, and i never said you couldn't live a decent life as an atheist. And there you go again 'ancient book telling you to'. You have no idea about what some religions are like, i'm pretty sure you never took the time to read into a religion without the use of the internet. You don't just bloody follow a book, its more about achieving a spiritual connection with god. Something you probably will never comprehend.
    I was calling your statement rubbish. It is demonstrably untrue that all people need religion to live a good life. This can be easily disproven by noticing the plenty of moral atheists that exist. It can also be disproven by using simple logic: religion developed relatively late into our evolution and yet we managed to live cooperatively and well enough to survive as a species until we were mentally advanced enough to create gods and elaborate rituals.

    Are you serious? Do you know nothing of human history? I don't want to seem rude or anything, but our prehistoric history is pretty well documented in many museums etc. And it's obvious that if we had all been murderous, evil scum before religion appeared that we wouldn't have survived long as a species.

    Funny how you're making unwarranted assumptions about my knowledge concerning religion just because I don't agree with your points. I used to be religious so I know perfectly well what's it's like and now that I'm not I can see it's totally unnecessary to be a decent human being.
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    "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"- Carl Sagan.

    We shouldnt just rule out the possibility of a higher power, when we know next to nothing about the universe.
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"- Carl Sagan.

    We shouldnt just rule out the possibility of a higher power, when we know next to nothing about the universe.
    And Carl Sagan was right about everything all the time?

    Not to mention, there is significant evidence against it whereas there is nothing for it.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Catholics sin all the time.

    Why should a confession and ten ave marias absolve them?

    Not to mention, how did the poster you just quoted sin? All he said was he doesn't believe you. You replied "no, but because you have sinned". How do you know that? Or even more general, suppose a person hasn't sinned, at all, but does not believe in God. Will he go to hell?
    I will answer this question, but as i have said they can be usually answered by the Bible. Because everyone has sinned, we are all sinners that is what the Bible says. The Bible is the word of God, i trust God and so i believe that what the Bible says is true. Christian or not we all have sinned and still do. The Bible tells people to avoid it but the only way to be entirely relinquished of it is through the grace of God, and the only way to do so is to have FAITH and trust him. It is impossible for someone to not sin. Let me list one of the most common sins, to lie. Do you believe that everyone on Earth (except babies) has never told a lie, i think that is inevitable.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Catholics sin all the time.

    Why should a confession and ten ave marias absolve them?

    Not to mention, how did the poster you just quoted sin? All he said was he doesn't believe you. You replied "no, but because you have sinned". How do you know that? Or even more general, suppose a person hasn't sinned, at all, but does not believe in God. Will he go to hell?
    I guess it depends what denomination Paranoid Glitch is. Catholics believe in Original Sin and thus by default everyone is a sinner from birth and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

    Even Christians who don't believe in Original Sin believe that pretty much everyone who has ever lived is a sinner as it's simply in our nature to do evil. Exceptions include Jesus and obviously humans who died extremely young, before they were physically able to sin.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I was calling your statement rubbish. It is demonstrably untrue that all people need religion to live a good life. This can be easily disproven by noticing the plenty of moral atheists that exist. It can also be disproven by using simple logic: religion develop relatively late into our evolution and yet we managed to live cooperatively and well enough to survive as a species until we were mentally advanced enough to create gods and elaborate rituals.

    Are you serious? Do you know nothing of human history? I don't want to seem rude or anything, but our prehistoric history is pretty well documented in many museums etc. And it's obvious that if we had all been murderous, evil scum before religion appeared that we wouldn't have survived long as a species.

    Funny how you're making unwarranted assumptions about my knowledge concerning religion just because I don't agree with your points. I used to be religious so I know perfectly well what's it's like and now that I'm not I can see it's totally unnecessary to be a decent human being.
    I remember reading on the BBC that scientists recently found a place where rituals were performed after someone had died, and these were dated back to 30000BC and this was the earliest signs of civilisation we have seen. If we go back even further, we will find more.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    And Carl Sagan was right about everything all the time?

    Not to mention, there is significant evidence against it whereas there is nothing for it.
    Then tell me this significant evidence that could rule out a higher power.
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    I will answer this question, but as i have said they can be usually answered by the Bible. Because everyone has sinned, we are all sinners that is what the Bible says. The Bible is the word of God, i trust God and so i believe that what the Bible says is true. Christian or not we all have sinned and still do. The Bible tells people to avoid it but the only way to be entirely relinquished of it is through the grace of God, and the only way to do so is to have FAITH and trust him. It is impossible for someone to not sin. Let me list one of the most common sins, to lie. Do you believe that everyone on Earth (except babies) has never told a lie, i think that is inevitable.
    So you were dishonest.

    In this post: we all sin and only those that have faith are relinquished.

    In the previous post: "do I go to hell for not believing" - you: "no".

    Oh and btw. What a great form of social manipulation:

    "hey y'all, you know y'all sinners, and only way you don't burn for eternity after death is following my cult, er religion". No surprise that 2000 years ago when we knew little about the universe and we were more concerned with surviving than thinking about philosophy, that most people would start to follow this cult. And suddenly we have a religion.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I guess it depends what denomination Paranoid Glitch is. Catholics believe in Original Sin and thus by default everyone is a sinner from birth and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

    Even Christians who don't believe in Original Sin believe that pretty much everyone who has ever lived is a sinner as it's simply in our nature to do evil. Exceptions include Jesus and obviously humans who died extremely young, before they were physically able to sin.
    What do you believe evil is?
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    Then tell me this significant evidence that could rule out a higher power.
    There is plenty. Almost everything in the Bible is complete and utter bs. Seven days? Humans existed just like that without evolution?

    Oh and please spare me whatever latest excuse is trendy to explain away all these things. I already one of them in this thread ("god has a different time than us, to him 7 days is for us x amount of time").
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    I remember reading on the BBC that scientists recently found a place where rituals were performed after someone had died, and these were dated back to 30000BC and this was the earliest signs of civilisation we have seen. If we go back even further, we will find more.
    This is not proof that morals come from religion
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    I remember reading on the BBC that scientists recently found a place where rituals were performed after someone had died, and these were dated back to 30000BC and this was the earliest signs of civilisation we have seen. If we go back even further, we will find more.
    Rituals are indeed extremely old, but they don't need to have an intrinsic link to religion, at least not to one in the recognisable sense. It also does nothing to back up the statement that religion is necessary for people to lead decent lives. How would one who believes that answer the religious rituals in history that we would consider horrific, such as human sacrifice?
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    Astaghfirrula
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    What do you believe evil is?
    I don't believe in objective good and evil because I think it's necessary that we adapt and change our morals to suit the evolution of our ideals and values.
 
 
 
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