meef cheese
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[QUOTE=Bekaboo]A lot of people (especially the rampant atheists I know) dismiss the idea of God outright without knowing anything about specific religions. Which is fair enough I guess. But also a bit of a shame..
But that's the way it should be. If you have come to a rational conclusion that God/whatever doesn't exist, then there's no reason to consider religion.

I hate apologetics. It seems, to me, that some people in this thread have found religion a convenient and pleasant experience at certain times in their life and have decided to base their belief in God on that. Mentalness.
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meef cheese
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#222
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Also, just as a general question, has anyone here who has had a religious experience considered how reliable a source of knowledge it is?
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RawJoh1
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#223
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(Original post by meef cheese)
Also, just as a general question, has anyone here who has had a religious experience considered how reliable a source of knowledge it is?
Has any atheist who's inclined to ask this question bothered to do any philosophical investigations into it? I doubt it.

Given that this thread is about Christianity in Oxford, the atheists who are so quick to dismiss religious experience might want to attend the Existence of God lectures (given by Prof. Leftow, 4pm Tuesday, Schools) in which precisely this question is currently being addressed.
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Cirsium
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#224
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(Original post by meef cheese)
(Original post by Bekaboo)
A lot of people (especially the rampant atheists I know) dismiss the idea of God outright without knowing anything about specific religions. Which is fair enough I guess. But also a bit of a shame..
But that's the way it should be. If you have come to a rational conclusion that God/whatever doesn't exist, then there's no reason to consider religion.
My point was that that's fine, but what's not fine is then spouting crap about the actual practicalities of the religion without knowing what they ARE

I hate apologetics. It seems, to me, that some people in this thread have found religion a convenient and pleasant experience at certain times in their life and have decided to base their belief in God on that. Mentalness.[/QUOTE]

Really? I tend to find that people who find it convenient haven't quite understood what's involved :p:
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Cirsium
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#225
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(Original post by meef cheese)
Also, just as a general question, has anyone here who has had a religious experience considered how reliable a source of knowledge it is?
How reliable what source of knowledge is? My own feelings?
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meef cheese
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#226
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(Original post by Bekaboo)
How reliable what source of knowledge is? My own feelings?
I thought you said you heard voices.
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dancingqueen
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#227
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(Original post by Bekaboo)
No. But the point is that Christians do believe they have evidence: and not just in the form of the bible. I only know one practicing Christian who has not had some kind of religious experience during which he or she converted from a "cultural Christian" to a practicing one. As I've said before, either I'm insane (and hear voices) or God is real.
But why should I be convinced by 'experiences' other people have had- why does it mean there is a god, rather than being some other kind of spiritual experience?
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GregoryJL
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#228
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(Original post by RawJoh)
Has any atheist who's inclined to ask this question bothered to do any philosophical investigations into it?
You called? Unfortunately, I can't get myself to Oxford to listen to the lectures, but I'm reading through Alston's defence of religious experience at the moment. I confess I'm not sold, but you might be able to guess that. To be blunt, if the Oxford CU is much like the Cambridge CU, I doubt they will be particularly philosophically sophisticated either.

On topic: If they annoy you, tell them to piss off. If it is any consolation, if you lot decided to go to to a proper university, you'd have CICCU instead of OICCU hitting mission week about now.

*runs*.
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martin101
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#229
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Right this thread is just stupidly long so Ill just add my two peneth worth. Whilst some of the actions the CU has been attributed to are nothing short of despicable (condom piercing etc) I myself have nothing against the majority of them. It really is a general minority blackening the group as a whole (something which is so often the case). I tend to work on a live and let live basis and to be perfectly honest Im quite happy for the CU to do what they like as long as they dont impede those who want no part in their doings.
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Cirsium
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#230
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(Original post by dancingqueen)
But why should I be convinced by 'experiences' other people have had- why does it mean there is a god, rather than being some other kind of spiritual experience?
You're quoting me out of context. I have never said that because of my experiences or anybody elses you should believe. I have said that a) I think it's ridiculous to get so mad at something unobtrusive purely because it's religious (as opposed to information from the IT department or the cheerleading club) and that b) faith is not based on just reading the bible, but on personal experiences. Two very separate points: you're just trying to create conflict for the sake of it.
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oriel historian
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#231
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(Original post by Bekaboo)
You're quoting me out of context. I have never said that because of my experiences or anybody elses you should believe. I have said that a) I think it's ridiculous to get so mad at something unobtrusive purely because it's religious (as opposed to information from the IT department or the cheerleading club) and that b) faith is not based on just reading the bible, but on personal experiences. Two very separate points: you're just trying to create conflict for the sake of it.
Perhaps we're just mad cos we can't hear voices in our head. Like the snowman on the Irn Bru advert. He soo wants an Irn Bru he drops the kid in the snow. So yeah!!! :rolleyes:
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Cirsium
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#232
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If there was a point to that, I've missed it.
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oriel historian
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#233
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Now, there's always a point but I guess you haven't seen the advert so here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wMs5bUkjO0
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Opsimathmo
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#234
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(Original post by Opsimathmo)
So when people get these visions or whatever are they told/do they perceive that it's a Christian god? Or If you happen to have been brought up vaguely near to Islam or Judaism or whatever you just make the connection? :evil:
Anyone? How do you knjow to be a Christian and not a Muslim?
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the_alba
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#235
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(Original post by Opsimathmo)
Anyone? How do you knjow to be a Christian and not a Muslim?
I was going to ask this question too, but you got there first . Clearly it's a cultural, therefore localised, therefore humanised thing.

Take this vicar guy on Extreme Pilgrim on TV recently. He was opening himself to the Buddhist and Hindu religious experience, but he was hardly about to convert. As someone who grew up a cultural Christian, the first spiritual voice he heard he was obviously going to attribute to the Christian god. If he'd grown up in Saudi Arabia, or Jerusalem, or Delhi, it would have been different entirely. Your culture chooses your god for you.
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thomasjtl
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#236
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Anyone? How do you knjow to be a Christian and not a Muslim?
Because Christianity fitted well with my personal experiences of God- a God of supreme love who desired a personal relationship with me, and since becoming a christian things continued to get better. If God wanted me to be a muslim I'm sure he could prompt me.
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meef cheese
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#237
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(Original post by thomasjtl)
Because Christianity fitted well with my personal experiences of God- a God of supreme love who desired a personal relationship with me, and since becoming a christian things continued to get better. If God wanted me to be a muslim I'm sure he could prompt me.
So, I take it God wants me to be an atheist. He hasn't prompted me otherwise.
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thomasjtl
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#238
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So, I take it God wants me to be an atheist. He hasn't prompted me otherwise.
difference being that i'm open to listening to and following God. You've already dismissed the concept in your mind.
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heliotrope
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#239
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(Original post by Bekaboo)
You're quoting me out of context. I have never said that because of my experiences or anybody elses you should believe. I have said that a) I think it's ridiculous to get so mad at something unobtrusive purely because it's religious (as opposed to information from the IT department or the cheerleading club) and that b) faith is not based on just reading the bible, but on personal experiences. Two very separate points: you're just trying to create conflict for the sake of it.
but the information from the it department could conceivably be useful, and the cheerleaders don't tend to be evangelist in their cheerleading. so its not really the same.
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heliotrope
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#240
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(Original post by Huw Davies)
Then you're very narrow-minded and will find it very odd to encounter extraordinarily intelligent Christians and other religionists here. Do you really want a list of extraordinary scientists, philosophers and other thinkers who actively followed a religion? Newton believed some extraordinarily loopy things about alchemy and yet made an enormous contribution to our understanding of the natural world.

I personally disbelieve in God but it is arrogant and misguided to claim that we atheists have a monopoly on thoughtful inquiry? These sorts of proclamations by atheists are just as irritating as proselytising by believers - more so, if anything, as I am ostensibly in the same trench.
say what now? do people not read posts any more? i never said they didn't exist, because clearly they do. i said that i don't understand how someone can be deeply intelligent yet also show such a lack of critical thought towards religion. i think its odd and confusing. it is an inconsistency. i'm not claiming the inconsistency doesn't exist, just that it confuses me.

before you jump on your high horse and start being a jerk try having a little think about what people actually said.
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