The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2009 Watch

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Paulwhy
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#221
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#221
(Original post by sv90)
Ok, so eg. Bath. Median is 440, so that's (based on purely A-Levels); AAA at A2, A at AS and a bit. Which is quite scary. I'm sure I'm interpreting it wrong, but isn't that quite high for an AAB offer university?
Well 440 is only AABB or AABbb.
And it would be very normal for applicants to top unis like Baths to be doing 4 A-levels and/or to have done 5 AS-levels.

See the following list for the full range of all point scoring qualifications:
http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/tarifftables/
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sv90
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#222
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ah. I always thought it was regular for 4ASs to become 3A2s. (guess it's because what my school did)
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Paulwhy
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#223
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(Original post by sv90)
ah. I always thought it was regular for 4ASs to become 3A2s. (guess it's because what my school did)
Well out of the specialised sub-group that applies to and is succeessful at top econ unis, doing 5/6 AS-levels and carrying them onto A2 is not uncommon.
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splee
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#224
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First of all I thank you very very very much for preparing the table... It's sooo great and helped me sooooo much!

But I found a little problem here: The UCAS Tariff points are awarded such that IB results are greatly overstated. For example, AAAA in A-levels translates into 480 tariff points, while 38 in IB, which is LSE's typical offer, gives 605 tariff points - even a bit higher than 5A's (600) in A-levels.

I fear, this would cause the figures you quoted in the table be skewed upwards. The actual average of results of A-level students might be lower than the figure suggests....
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Paulwhy
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#225
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#225
(Original post by splee)
First of all I thank you very very very much for preparing the table... It's sooo great and helped me sooooo much!

But I found a little problem here: The UCAS Tariff points are awarded such that IB results are greatly overstated. For example, AAAA in A-levels translates into 480 tariff points, while 38 in IB, which is LSE's typical offer, gives 605 tariff points - even a bit higher than 5A's (600) in A-levels.

I fear, this would cause the figures you quoted in the table be skewed upwards. The actual average of results of A-level students might be lower than the figure suggests....
The averages are only for UK students. Hence few IB students.
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Paulwhy
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#226
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#226
Have updated TAELT to reflect that Exeter offer range is now AAA/ABB instead of AAB/ABB. Also for IB it is 30-33 instead of 30-31:
AAB.2 (340 Points) (ABB offers (Exeter, SOAS, Southampton ABBb, Manchester Ba, York: accepted students with accepted York offers but only achieved grades of ABB
York AAB M**p 448
Southampton (or ABBb) (or 400 points from 4 A-levels) AAB M*c 399
Exeter (Ba) AAA- ABB M**p 397
Manchester (BSc) AAB M** E**p 397
Lancaster AAB/AAbb/ABaa 394
SOAS AAB-ABB 360
see http://business-school.exeter.ac.uk/undergraduate/ba_e/ and also UCAS Course Search.
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Ibn al-Khattab
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Whilst this table is refreshing and something different, is it really accurate in terms of the median range of Universities? Of course, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Oxbridge are likley to dominate things.

It simply says which Universities ask for the highest grades based on the sheer volume of applicants, yet says very little about an actual department?

You have Universities such as Manchester ranked higher than Essex, when in reality, for Economics, Essex is much better than Manchester.

Oh I wish they either rename the University of Essex or relocate it elsewhere.
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Paulwhy
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#228
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(Original post by Ibn al-Khattab)
Whilst this table is refreshing and something different, is it really accurate in terms of the median range of Universities? Of course, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Oxbridge are likley to dominate things.

It simply says which Universities ask for the highest grades based on the sheer volume of applicants, yet says very little about an actual department?

You have Universities such as Manchester ranked higher than Essex, when in reality, for Economics, Essex is much better than Manchester.

Oh I wish they either rename the University of Essex or relocate it elsewhere.
TAELT is not primarily about how good each econ department is. It is primarily about how difficult it is to get econ offers from each uni. (e.g. in terms of Typical Offers and the tariff's of successful students). So TAELT is princibly about feasibility and not how attractive a course is (that quality would vary dramaticlaly betweeen.applicants e.g. in terms of uni location and city/campus preferences).

However, we would, in general, expect course competiveness to be linked to course atractivness (avaeraged over all students). But that attraction would consider all factors: i.e. not just the academic qualities of the course but also for example general uni qualities e.g. uni geography. So TAELT is non-judegemental about the value judgemenets made by students: i.e. it include the utility students get whilst at uni.

And for comparison purposes, the spreadsheet version includes the newspaper league positions (columns P,Q,R of the A-level work sheet). (See the econ uni guide for a discussion of what I called the Big City Bias).
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Ibn al-Khattab
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
TAELT is not primarily about how good each econ department is. It is primarily about how difficult it is to get econ offers from each uni. (e.g. in terms of Typical Offers and the tariff's of successful students). So TAELT is princibly about feasibility and not how attractive a course is (that quality would vary dramaticlaly betweeen.applicants e.g. in terms of uni location and city/campus preferences).

However, we would, in general, expect course competiveness to be linked to course atractivness (avaeraged over all students). But that attraction would consider all factors: i.e. not just the academic qualities of the course but also for example general uni qualities e.g. uni geography. So TAELT is non-judegemental about the value judgemenets made by students: i.e. it include the utility students get whilst at uni.

And for comparison purposes, the spreadsheet version includes the newspaper league positions (columns P,Q,R of the A-level work sheet). (See the econ uni guide for a discussion of what I called the Big City Bias).
Of course, I think it's a good table nonetheless and especially so for prospective econ. students but perhaps it's a bit misleading in it's title as it seems to indicate that the position of each University in the table is a viable indication of department strength.
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Paulwhy
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#230
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(Original post by Ibn al-Khattab)
Of course, I think it's a good table nonetheless and especially so for prospective econ. students but perhaps it's a bit misleading in it's title as it seems to indicate that the position of each University in the table is a viable indication of department strength.
Well yes the phrase League Table is less than ideal. But I think it does more good than harm. (We had an extensive dicussion in this thread a few months ago on a name and TAELT was the least bad.)

My concern with "League Table" is not mainly that readers will think it orders unis by quality but rather it associates my work with the unfocused newspaper league tables. Even if you can frind out how newspaper tables are ordered it is unclear why they are ordered like that. i.e. you may find it is a weighted average of different colunns. But why those weights? i.e. they seem to want to consider many different uni qualities some of which have little direct concern for many applicnats.

Conversely TAELT is very simple. It just tries to measure competiveness for undergraduate economics places.
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Paulwhy
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#231
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I have added in the Bsc Sheffield offer:
BBB.1 (300 Points) (Up to 10% of students have less than 280 points), Sheffield (6%), Liverpool (10%), Queen Mary 9%), Queens Belfast (0%)
Sheffield Ba: BBB-BBbb (Bsc:ABB-BBbb) 369
Liverpool BBB 361

Queen Mary 300 M*M**p 351
Queen's Belfast BBB-BBCb 347
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abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
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#232
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was just wondering is this a table of just entry requirements and not performance of the unis?
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Paulwhy
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#233
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(Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
was just wondering is this a table of just entry requirements and not performance of the unis?
Yes it is primarily about how hard it is to get into different unis. But that is a reflection of how attractive different unis are, which is a function of uni performance.
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abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
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#234
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
Yes it is primarily about how hard it is to get into different unis. But that is a reflection of how attractive different unis are, which is a function of uni performance.
ah right ok thanks for clearing that up for me
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Capocrimini
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#235
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Paulwhy, you mentioned that 90 % of economics students at UCL, LSE and warwick have studied economics at A-level. What percentage of cambridge economics students have done the same?
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Paulwhy
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#236
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(Original post by Capocrimini)
Paulwhy, you mentioned that 90 % of economics students at UCL, LSE and warwick have studied economics at A-level. What percentage of cambridge economics students have done the same?
I don't know. But it will be high. The figures for UCL and LSE came from TSR posters. The figure from Warwick came from how many seminar groups there were for non-economics A-level Students.
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Paulwhy
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#237
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New AAA.0 group:
AAA.0 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than places. e.g. Cambridge 193 Offers and 177 places)
Cambridge AAA M** E**p 528
Oxford # AAA M**p 512
LSE AAA M** 510

AAA.1 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Approximately 600 offers for 180 places)
UCL AAAe M**A 459
What abut the AAA.0 and AAA.1 groups?
Given how many offers UCL make per place (3.33:1) I have split them off. Cambridge in 07/08 were 1.09:1. I don't have the same figures for Oxford or LSE but I very much expect them to be much close that 1 than 3. Hence the split.
For more on this issue check out the 3rd post of the Econ Uni Guide:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...05&postcount=3
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shinhans31
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have a question with IB offers at UCL

(Original post by Paulwhy)
Here is the IB version.

AAA
Cambridge AAA M** E**p Acceptable on its own & combined with other qualifications 528 ** **preferred
Oxford # AAA M**p 38-40 These give an indication of the range of offers likely to be made to successful candidates. Achievement of these grades does not guarantee a place as admissions for all courses are competitive. 512 ** preferred
LSE AAA M** 38 7 6 6 required. Grade 7 in Mathematics required. 510 **A.
Durham AAA M* 38 462 *b
UCL AAAe M**A 38 Grades 6,6,6 at Higher level required including Mathematics. 459 **A.
Well. it's a little different from what they actually say.
If you see this pdf file, http://www.econ.ucl.ac.uk/degrees/faq.pdf
, it clearly states "39 points overall with grades of 776 in the Highers, including Mathematics"
were there any changes?
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Paulwhy
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#239
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(Original post by shinhans31)
have a question with IB offers at UCL



Well. it's a little different from what they actually say.
If you see this pdf file, http://www.econ.ucl.ac.uk/degrees/faq.pdf
, it clearly states "39 points overall with grades of 776 in the Highers, including Mathematics"
were there any changes?
Well the UCL econ entry on UCAS Course Search is still 38 including 6,6,6 at HL. So you should email the UCL econ department to find out what the correct sitaution is.
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Paulwhy
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The SOAS offer situation is confusing:
(Original post by lemonx)
iwas confused about this too since they also upped the requirements for straight economics, its AAA now..from AAB-ABB last year. =(
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...2#post15207132

Yes UCAS Course Search says it is AAA.
But SOAS webpage says:
A levels: AAA IB: 37 points 6/6/6 at Higher Level points UCAS: 340 points (from 3 A-Levels excluding General Studies)
http://www.soas.ac.uk/programmes/prog14006.php

Further the 2007 Offers guide has SOAS as BBB. (And I think that is correct as unistats 06/07 has 22% of students below 320 points, 48% below 360 points.) But the SOAS website has says they have 13 applications per place.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...rs#post6282645
eidt: Socrates confirms it used to be BBB:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...s#post13694661

edit: Further research in the SOAS forum, suggests:
i) the course is Ba/Bsc with evaluation mainly by essay and so maybe AAB.1.2 status is appropriate.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=381339
ii) that there are normally these offer inconsistencies with SOAS:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...s#post10277149
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