The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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username1524603
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#2381
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#2381
(Original post by RayApparently)
How odd. Because if things were as they were in 2007 the manifesto would be radically different.
That is my point, the manifesto would have to be more right-wing otherwise the party would not get anywhere. Imagine leaders talking about socialism in a debate watched by 2007's public, everyone would laugh and vote Conservative. Anything mildly socialistic is only popular when the economy is terrible.
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Tanqueray91
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#2382
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#2382
TONIGHT!

A ONE TIME SPECIAL!!!!


BYOB!

I'm off to the pub so won't be able to serve you till later so yeh - one round on the house when I get back!
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Green_Pink
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#2383
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#2383
(Original post by mobbsy91)
TONIGHT!

A ONE TIME SPECIAL!!!!


BYOB!

I'm off to the pub so won't be able to serve you till later so yeh - one round on the house when I get back!
For a Tory you must be racking up a lot of debt with all these free rounds Not that I'm complaining! Have a nice evening
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Tanqueray91
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#2384
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#2384
(Original post by Green_Pink)
For a Tory you must be racking up a lot of debt with all these free rounds Not that I'm complaining! Have a nice evening

EDIT: :facepalm: I get it!!! Haha, we make enough money in this bar as it is
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Aph
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#2385
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#2385
How I long for the day when we all have computers in our brains and we can all read eachothers minds, that will be the day that communism truly works and all wars end.
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Aph
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#2386
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#2386
Of course is geneticists could find a way to eliminate hate from our DNA, and envy too that'd be perfect....
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RayApparently
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#2387
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#2387
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
That is my point, the manifesto would have to be more right-wing otherwise the party would not get anywhere. Imagine leaders talking about socialism in a debate watched by 2007's public, everyone would laugh and vote Conservative. Anything mildly socialistic is only popular when the economy is terrible.
That doesn't make the country right-wing. I strongly believe the country is centre-left.
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Saracen's Fez
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#2388
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#2388
(Original post by Aph)
How I long for the day when we all have computers in our brains and we can all read eachothers minds, that will be the day that communism truly works and all wars end.
Are you serious?! It's only going to cause more disagreements when what was once just thought privately is public knowledge.
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RayApparently
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#2389
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#2389
(Original post by Aph)
How I long for the day when we all have computers in our brains and we can all read eachothers minds, that will be the day that communism truly works and all wars end.
(Original post by Aph)
Of course is geneticists could find a way to eliminate hate from our DNA, and envy too that'd be perfect....
:lolwut:
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Aph
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#2390
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#2390
(Original post by RayApparently)
That doesn't make the country right-wing. I strongly believe the country is centre-left.
Everyone is born a commie, but life breaks people into despair and tells them to give up moving them right. If we took babies from their parents from birth and let them grow up together away from the world, they would form a perfect communistic society.
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Kittiara
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#2391
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#2391
(Original post by Aph)
How I long for the day when we all have computers in our brains and we can all read eachothers minds, that will be the day that communism truly works and all wars end.
If people could read my mind they'd run like the wind, because it's a strange, strange place.
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RayApparently
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#2392
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#2392
(Original post by Aph)
Everyone is born a commie, but life breaks people into despair and tells them to give up moving them right. If we took babies from their parents from birth and let them grow up together away from the world, they would form a perfect communistic society.
I strongly disagree with that. Socialism isn't our natural instinct, otherwise the world would be socialist. Socialism is learned and preached. What's natural isn't what's better, what's better is overcoming nature.

#marx
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TeeEff
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#2393
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#2393
(Original post by Aph)
How I long for the day when we all have computers in our brains and we can all read eachothers minds, that will be the day that communism truly works and all wars end.
Nah, I value the right to privacy Why would Communism work in such a setting though?
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Aph
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#2394
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#2394
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Are you serious?! It's only going to cause more disagreements when what was once just thought privately is public knowledge.
No, the majority would re-write the the minds of the minority.
(Original post by RayApparently)
:lolwut:
It's true:yep:
(Original post by Kittiara)
If people could read my mind they'd run like the wind, because it's a strange, strange place.
:hugs: nahh I'm sure that's not true.
(Original post by RayApparently)
I strongly disagree with that. Socialism isn't our natural instinct, otherwise the world would be socialist. Socialism is learned and preached. What's natural isn't what's better, what's better is overcoming nature.

#marx
We can't overcome all of nature, but I think in a society where we have to hunt (work) to do better then others capitalism is natural. But in a society where all tge children relied on eachother they would form a social group which although having hiaracy would be at it's heart comunist. Either way it'd be an very interesting (and even more unethical) experiment.
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Aph
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#2395
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#2395
(Original post by The Financier)
Nah, I value the right to privacy Why would Communism work in such a setting though?
It'd work because well we'd be like the Borg... Any suffering you cause would be transmitted to you, so if one person felt bad the whole world would too.
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RayApparently
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#2396
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#2396
(Original post by Aph)
No, the majority would re-write the the minds of the minority.

It's true:yep:

:hugs: nahh I'm sure that's not true.

We can't overcome all of nature, but I think in a society where we have to hunt (work) to do better then others capitalism is natural. But in a society where all tge children relied on eachother they would form a social group which although having hiaracy would be at it's heart comunist. Either way it'd be an very interesting (and even more unethical) experiment.
Weren't you the one who suggested communists states don't/shouldn't have hierarchy? They wouldn't have money so by that criteria it would be 'communist'. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies?
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Rakas21
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#2397
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#2397
(Original post by RayApparently)
That reminds me of Rakas' theory that the country is Blairite.

Except yours sounds a bit contemptuous of the electorate.
Yes, England especially wants a very soft Tory government.

The only changes that have occurred in the past decade or so are..

1) People dislike immigration more - In the south they seem bothered about numbers (effects on housing and transport i suppose), in the north it seems more cultural (much more likely to find EDL sympathisers even if they'd never protest). I don't think there's a cross country consensus on why people dislike immigration, just that most people don't like it on the whole.

2) People definitely support a less generous welfare system (strivers and scroungers rhetoric) however they want it done in a competent and relatively fair way (hence why there's massive support for less welfare spending but big headlines over the spare room subsidy.

3) The one area people may have moved left is in utilities (albeit a much narrower definition than before) as there's a fair degree of support of public ownership of energy and rail especially. The crumb of comfort for the right is that this seems to be on price grounds rather than an ideological belief that government should own these things.

On the whole though i think they basically want the first term Blair government plus a bit more spending on housing and transport, a bit less immigration, a bit less welfare spending and the railways and energy companies ran publicly (Thatcher was certainly right though when she said that in 20 years, the taxpayer will think it stupid that government once owned hotels).
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Aph
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#2398
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#2398
(Original post by RayApparently)
Weren't you the one who suggested communists states don't/shouldn't have hierarchy? They wouldn't have money so by that criteria it would be 'communist'. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies?
Back when I supported anarchy... But having been to a few lectures and being introduced by the idea that we need governments to be able to trust eachother I'm now broadly in favour but I still don't think we should own land... But no I haven't.
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RayApparently
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#2399
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#2399
(Original post by Rakas21)
Yes, England especially wants a very soft Tory government.

The only changes that have occurred in the past decade or so are..

1) People dislike immigration more - In the south they seem bothered about numbers (effects on housing and transport i suppose), in the north it seems more cultural (much more likely to find EDL sympathisers even if they'd never protest). I don't think there's a cross country consensus on why people dislike immigration, just that most people don't like it on the whole.

2) People definitely support a less generous welfare system (strivers and scroungers rhetoric) however they want it done in a competent and relatively fair way (hence why there's massive support for less welfare spending but big headlines over the spare room subsidy.

3) The one area people may have moved left is in utilities (albeit a much narrower definition than before) as there's a fair degree of support of public ownership of energy and rail especially. The crumb of comfort for the right is that this seems to be on price grounds rather than an ideological belief that government should own these things.

On the whole though i think they basically want the first term Blair government plus a bit more spending on housing and transport, a bit less immigration, a bit less welfare spending and the railways and energy companies ran publicly (Thatcher was certainly right though when she said that in 20 years, the taxpayer will think it stupid that government once owned hotels).
Come may England may prove to be the only UK nation that does.

The first two are the result of the propagation of a lot of mistruths.

I think there definitely is some ideology to it. After all not everyone who wants rail nationalisation actually uses the trains that often. There is the sense that faceless corporations rip you off and natural monopolies really do belong to the people (and failing that, the next best thing, the state).
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RayApparently
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#2400
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#2400
(Original post by Aph)
Back when I supported anarchy... But having been to a few lectures and being introduced by the idea that we need governments to be able to trust eachother I'm now broadly in favour but I still don't think we should own land... But no I haven't.
Well a bunch of kids get stuck on an island and its a bloody disaster.
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