The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Kittiara
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#2401
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#2401
(Original post by Aph)

:hugs: nahh I'm sure that's not true.
It's true. I am a writer, and a daydreamer, so I spend a lot of time in a kind of fantasy world of my own making.
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Aph
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#2402
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#2402
(Original post by RayApparently)
Well a bunch of kids get stuck on an island and its a bloody disaster.
i might read it some time but remember it is only one persons imagination of what'd happen being represented.

(Original post by Kittiara)
It's true. I am a writer, and a daydreamer, so I spend a lot of time in a kind of fantasy world of my own making.
Not scary though.
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Kittiara
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#2403
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#2403
(Original post by Aph)
Not scary though.
Well, my darkest work is my most popular work. I seem to be good at it for some reason. Which is a bit unnerving.
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RayApparently
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#2404
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#2404
(Original post by Aph)
i might read it some time but remember it is only one persons imagination of what'd happen being represented.
The writer was a school teacher who wrote it based on his observations of children's behaviour when given less and less rules to follow and more and more objectives to meet. Its widely considered to be an accurate portrayal of the more savage parts of human nature.

Socialism is unnatural. But like plastics or TVs its a good kind of unnatural. I'm proud that humans can transcend their nature to do better than what we got.
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username1524603
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#2405
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#2405
(Original post by Rakas21)
3) The one area people may have moved left is in utilities (albeit a much narrower definition than before) as there's a fair degree of support of public ownership of energy and rail especially. The crumb of comfort for the right is that this seems to be on price grounds rather than an ideological belief that government should own these things.
I agree with everything you said but I do think what you have described is not a soft Tory government as it is more Tory than the current government. On the point I've quoted there could be debate over a way to bring down energy bills. There could be cuts in green taxes enabling cheaper energy or there could be nationalisation of energy companies. I think the majority of people would favour cutting green taxes over natonalisation.
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Aph
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#2406
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#2406
(Original post by RayApparently)
The writer was a school teacher who wrote it based on his observations of children's behaviour when given less and less rules to follow and more and more objectives to meet. Its widely considered to be an accurate portrayal of the more savage parts of human nature.

Socialism is unnatural. But like plastics or TVs its a good kind of unnatural. I'm proud that humans can transcend their nature to do better than what we got.
Ahhh, then that sounds really interesting indeed.

well... Some humans:ninja:
(Original post by Kittiara)
Well, my darkest work is my most popular work. I seem to be good at it for some reason. Which is a bit unnerving.
everyone loves a bit of melancholy.
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TeeEff
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#2407
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#2407
(Original post by Aph)
It'd work because well we'd be like the Borg... Any suffering you cause would be transmitted to you, so if one person felt bad the whole world would too.
What's a borg?

I still don't understand how that would make Communism work though.
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RayApparently
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#2408
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#2408
I wouldn't sign up to having my brain intruded on by the world's population. I wager that if I met everyone on Earth I'd dislike the majority.
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Kittiara
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#2409
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#2409
(Original post by Aph)
everyone loves a bit of melancholy.
It's more along the lines of monsters, vampires (and not the sparkly Twilight kind), serial killers etc, when I write that kind of work. People seem to be fascinated by those types of stories.
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Rakas21
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#2410
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#2410
(Original post by RayApparently)
The writer was a school teacher who wrote it based on his observations of children's behaviour when given less and less rules to follow and more and more objectives to meet. Its widely considered to be an accurate portrayal of the more savage parts of human nature.

Socialism is unnatural. But like plastics or TVs its a good kind of unnatural. I'm proud that humans can transcend their nature to do better than what we got.
Having now had a total of 9 behavioral economics lectures (you can call me Dr Phill 2.0 now) i feel that i'm qualified to believe that human nature is to act in your individual self interest at almost all times except when it comes to those you form an emotional attachment to (friends and family) i.e. your pack. I can kind of understand how you might extend that 'socialist' behavior to the village you live in but paradoxically the bigger your state is, the more detached from it's people you are and the more self interested your state will be if given the chance. On top of that you have the fact that no state with the power to shape the world (i.e. US or China) will ever give that power up and so currency aside you'd still always have a hierarchy.

That being said it also confirmed my view that we are an extremely irrational species unless of course you believe in revealed preference.
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Aph
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#2411
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#2411
(Original post by The Financier)
What's a borg?

I still don't understand how that would make Communism work though.
You're not serious right?

because we would lose our individuality and act as a collective entity.
(Original post by RayApparently)
I wouldn't sign up to having my brain intruded on by the world's population. I wager that if I met everyone on Earth I'd dislike the majority.
most people are lovely once you get to know them,..
(Original post by Kittiara)
It's more along the lines of monsters, vampires (and not the sparkly Twilight kind), serial killers etc, when I write that kind of work. People seem to be fascinated by those types of stories.
I think that says more about the human condition TBH.
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RayApparently
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#2412
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#2412
(Original post by Rakas21)
Having now had a total of 9 behavioral economics lectures (you can call me Dr Phill 2.0 now) i feel that i'm qualified to believe that human nature is to act in your individual self interest at almost all times except when it comes to those you form an emotional attachment to (friends and family) i.e. your pack. I can kind of understand how you might extend that 'socialist' behavior to the village you live in but paradoxically the bigger your state is, the more detached from it's people you are and the more self interested your state will be if given the chance. On top of that you have the fact that no state with the power to shape the world (i.e. US or China) will ever give that power up and so currency aside you'd still always have a hierarchy.

That being said it also confirmed my view that we are an extremely irrational species unless of course you believe in revealed preference.
I'm seriously not sure if you're arguing with me or not. :confused: I don't believe humans are naturally socialistic, quite the opposite.
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Rakas21
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#2413
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#2413
(Original post by The Financier)
What's a borg?

I still don't understand how that would make Communism work though.
The Borg are a StarTrek race. They are a Cyborg race who work as a collective (albeit the Queen rules them but she hears all thoughts), they have no individual mind. They exist to ruthlessly achieve perfection.

As silly as it sounds at first, it's a very real possibility if we had the technology to create a collective consciousness.
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Rakas21
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#2414
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#2414
(Original post by RayApparently)
I'm seriously not sure if you're arguing with me or not. :confused: I don't believe humans are naturally socialistic, quite the opposite.
I was agreeing, just giving my own opinion.
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RayApparently
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#2415
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#2415
(Original post by Rakas21)
I was agreeing, just giving my own opinion.
Ah, thanks then. I'm guessing the next step in the reasoning is where we disagree. Whilst you, as a Tory wish to accept and adapt to that nature I, as a lefty want to beat it. Of course I believe the road towards socialism needs to be positively glacial for humans to achieve all they can achieve in a capitalist framework first.
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Rakas21
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#2416
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#2416
(Original post by RayApparently)
Ah, thanks then. I'm guessing the next step in the reasoning is where we disagree. Whilst you, as a Tory wish to accept and adapt to that nature I, as a lefty want to beat it. Of course I believe the road towards socialism needs to be positively glacial for humans to achieve all they can achieve in a capitalist framework first.
Desire can be a great motivator. Now that can stem from a desire to better society but i think it just as easily stems from personal desire (to make an app and make billions).

I believe that currency in its current reform will become redundant once we move to a position of abundance (once we achieve things like fusion and space mining) but i'm not sure that private ownership would ever end or that we'd unite as a species so Aph's vision of communism probably would never occur.
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RayApparently
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#2417
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Desire can be a great motivator. Now that can stem from a desire to better society but i think it just as easily stems from personal desire (to make an app and make billions).

I believe that currency in its current reform will become redundant once we move to a position of abundance (once we achieve things like fusion and space mining) but i'm not sure that private ownership would ever end or that we'd unite as a species so Aph's vision of communism probably would never occur.
Abundance! That's just the word I was looking for. The markets will get us to the point where we don't need them. Its positively marxist.

I don't think private ownership will disappear either. At least not completely.
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Aph
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#2418
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#2418
Just to say I simply disagree with the concept of private property but agree with personal belongings.
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Blue Meltwater
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#2419
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#2419
When people say things like they oppose private property I feel horrifically centrist. I mean, I support regulations, social housing and ideas like housing co-ops, but...
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TeeEff
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#2420
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#2420
(Original post by Aph)
You're not serious right?

because we would lose our individuality and act as a collective entity.
most people are lovely once you get to know them,..
I am. is it a star trek thing? Cause I've never watched it...

Individuality's brilliant. Without it how do we get new ideas? Society would not progress if you make everyone the same...it takes people who think differently for innovation to happen.

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