Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Radio4
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#2421
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#2421
I'm new to this forum so I've had to spend like three hours catching up on it

I've noticed that both of the Scottish pro-unionists are Tories, always considered that an oxymoron
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MatureStudent36
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#2422
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#2422
Firstly you'll have to explain why it's oxymoron.
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dzeh
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#2423
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#2423
(Original post by abbii)
They want our money, we want their oil. And even if that weren't the case, no-one would do anything because they don't want the hassle of something with a distinct chance of turning into a civil war.
The only civil war that will happen here is when the muslim population goes 40%+
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Radio4
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#2424
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#2424
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Firstly you'll have to explain why it's oxymoron.
Well, apart from the creepy SNP ones who think Scotland shouldn't be part of England, everyone I know in Scotland is Labour. Also, I thought that since 1997, there's never been more than one Conservative MP in Scotland.
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Radio4
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#2425
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#2425
(Original post by Radio4)
Well, apart from the creepy SNP ones who think Scotland shouldn't be part of England, everyone I know in Scotland is Labour. Also, I thought that since 1997, there's never been more than one Conservative MP in Scotland.
*UK, oops.
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MatureStudent36
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#2426
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#2426
(Original post by Radio4)
Well, apart from the creepy SNP ones who think Scotland shouldn't be part of England, everyone I know in Scotland is Labour. Also, I thought that since 1997, there's never been more than one Conservative MP in Scotland.
Theres about 250,000 people who vote Tory. As fir everybody else voting labour. I follow the biggest political grouping in Scotland. The floating voter who doesn't normally vote.
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MatureStudent36
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#2427
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#2427
(Original post by Radio4)
*UK, oops.
Most SNP supporters inter use England and the uk. You'll notice no reference to Wales or Northern Ireland. But to stop accusations of anti English behaviour, they'll substitute England fir westminster
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Radio4
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#2428
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#2428
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Most SNP supporters inter use England and the uk. You'll notice no reference to Wales or Northern Ireland. But to stop accusations of anti English behaviour, they'll substitute England fir westminster
I know there's difference between England and the UK, that's why I corrected myself but the thing about the UK is that it really is a state made up of England. We're by far the largest partner geographically, demographically, economically. The capital is located in England as is the national parliament. I can't tell you about Northern Ireland but I know that we refer to "English Law" not "English and Welsh Law." For me, the sterotypes of Britain are the Queen, the Houses of Parliament, cricket, Shakespeare, posh accents. It's the fact these stereotypes are exclusively English ones, not that that some only represent part of England that's important.

I can tell you when I go abroad, people don't notice or care about the difference. It's like how people mix up Holland and The Netherlands or America and the USA. It's not that they're ignorant but such common speech isn't based on avoidance of offence but Realpolitik.

Saying that, I'd say the union has been massively successful one that Scotland would be foolish to leave. I'd also say the same of the UK regarding the EU.

And me moving to Scotland for uni does not make me an SNP supporter
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Kj91
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#2429
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#2429
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Most SNP supporters inter use England and the uk. You'll notice no reference to Wales or Northern Ireland. But to stop accusations of anti English behaviour, they'll substitute England fir westminster
Why are the SNP anti english. There are English and Welsh members of the SNP . You are just making assumptions.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/th...bour-party-snp
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MatureStudent36
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#2430
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#2430
(Original post by Kj91)
Why are the SNP anti english. There are English and Welsh members of the SNP . You are just making assumptions.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/th...bour-party-snp

Never met a hardcore SNP supporter who doesn't treat their politics like a football match. My own MSP is Christine Grahame who was born in England. I think she was bullied as a child so has become uber scottish to compensate. Listen to her and tell me there's no hostility in her voice?

A trawl on the comments board of the Scotsman newspaper will highlight my point a little bit more
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Kj91
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#2431
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#2431
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Never met a hardcore SNP supporter who doesn't treat their politics like a football match. My own MSP is Christine Grahame who was born in England. I think she was bullied as a child so has become uber scottish to compensate. Listen to her and tell me there's no hostility in her voice?

A trawl on the comments board of the Scotsman newspaper will highlight my point a little bit more
I do not see any anti-english comments on the scotsman. I visit the website frequently. Can you please point one out.
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MatureStudent36
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#2432
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#2432
(Original post by Kj91)
I do not see any anti-english comments on the scotsman. I visit the website frequently. Can you please point one out.

Somehow trying to make out we're paying for English infrastructure.

gawain farquhar sellson
So I just wonder how much Scotland is paying towards this hydro link between Norway and England.

but lets remember the SNP statement that scottish taxpayers were being forced to pay for londons sewers.

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index...-sewer-upgrade


Even though Londoners are paying fir it themselves. But we'll finish off with another one from the Scotsman.

Hugo of Garven
"The Union has helped Scotland flourish."


An interesting viewpoint.


Equally valid is ´Scotland flourished in spite of England'


Yes?

but I'll finish of with our very own SNP supporting poet.

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-su...arts-1-2694368



One more.

15/07/2013 3:53 PM BST
Rate: (11 | 5)
notlabour 1999
Is it only the unionist movement that have grown their own crystal balls all of a sudden ?
Who was chancellor of the exchequer when the British Banking Sector was crumbling,and didn't even see it coming our way?
Has our Scottish pound always been accepted by our English neighbours?
And is our partners in the union going to vote Scotland out of the EU?
Scotland at the heart of the UK,don't make me laugh.
Try the POLL TAX and Bedroom Tax and Welfare State Cuts by Governments not elected by the voters of Scotland or Scotland's son's and Daughters dragged into illegal wars.
One word you have got right Mr Monteith and that is DEPENDENCY,Scotland's Dependency on England is not a plus point for 300 years of big brother management.
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HappyBappy
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#2433
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#2433
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
but I'll finish of with our very own SNP supporting poet.

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-su...arts-1-2694368
I actually agreed with you on this one and then I read this comment on the article:

"Its so typical of the stranglehold that the British Nationalist media has on this country that you cant have a mature discussion about how English immigration can affect Scotland or its culture without the media trying to label you a racist. Where are all the complaints for the constant Telegraph et al headlines about spongeing jocks and Scottish subsidy junkies? But i forgot its ok to be racist when its the English saying it about Scotland. Immigration can be a very positive thing, but when 13% of the Scottish population are born in England you cannot say that it will not have an overbearing impact on Scottish culture. A recent scottish history programme I watched on TV had more English 'experts' than Scottish ones - what other country would accept another country defining its history and culture. Its time we had a bit more of a grown up debate about this instead of the usual unfounded accusations about racism any time a concern about the impact of Englishness on our country is raised."

I'm awaiting the red arrows for this one. I'd step back from saying "overwhelming" but it is true that migration on that level does have an inevitable impact on the receiving country, but the positive and negative aspects of that impact are not for me to comment on. As controversial as Mr. Gray's remarks were, I don't see anything racist in them.
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Kj91
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#2434
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#2434
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Somehow trying to make out we're paying for English infrastructure.

gawain farquhar sellson
So I just wonder how much Scotland is paying towards this hydro link between Norway and England.

but lets remember the SNP statement that scottish taxpayers were being forced to pay for londons sewers.

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index...-sewer-upgrade


Even though Londoners are paying fir it themselves. But we'll finish off with another one from the Scotsman.

Hugo of Garven
"The Union has helped Scotland flourish."


An interesting viewpoint.


Equally valid is ´Scotland flourished in spite of England'


Yes?

but I'll finish of with our very own SNP supporting poet.

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-su...arts-1-2694368



One more.

15/07/2013 3:53 PM BST
Rate: (11 | 5)
notlabour 1999
Is it only the unionist movement that have grown their own crystal balls all of a sudden ?
Who was chancellor of the exchequer when the British Banking Sector was crumbling,and didn't even see it coming our way?
Has our Scottish pound always been accepted by our English neighbours?
And is our partners in the union going to vote Scotland out of the EU?
Scotland at the heart of the UK,don't make me laugh.
Try the POLL TAX and Bedroom Tax and Welfare State Cuts by Governments not elected by the voters of Scotland or Scotland's son's and Daughters dragged into illegal wars.
One word you have got right Mr Monteith and that is DEPENDENCY,Scotland's Dependency on England is not a plus point for 300 years of big brother management.
I don't see those comments or ones above as anti-english.You are just saying that anyone who is scottish and is critical of the union and westminister is anti english.
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MatureStudent36
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#2435
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#2435
(Original post by Kj91)
I don't see those comments or ones above as anti-english.You are just saying that anyone who is scottish and is critical of the union and westminister is anti english.

I notice you failed to comment on Joan macalpines blatant lie about Scotland subsiding London infrastructure and this one.

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-su...arts-1-2694368

as I say, I've met too many hardcore nationalists who treat their politics like football.
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Kj91
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#2436
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#2436
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I notice you failed to comment on Joan macalpines blatant lie about Scotland subsiding London infrastructure and this one.

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-su...arts-1-2694368

as I say, I've met too many hardcore nationalists who treat their politics like football.
Why does a dispute between an SNP MSP and David Cameron equate with the SNP as being 'Anti- English' You're article is irrevalent to your point.
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MatureStudent36
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#2437
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#2437
(Original post by Kj91)
Why does a dispute between an SNP MSP and David Cameron equate with the SNP as being 'Anti- English' You're article is irrevalent to your point.

you didn't read the link did you as there's no politics in there. Just an SNP supporting poet claimingAlasdair Gray attacks English for ‘colonising’ arts

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Kj91
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#2438
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#2438
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
you didn't read the link did you as there's no politics in there. Just an SNP supporting poet claimingAlasdair Gray attacks English for ‘colonising’ arts
I was referring to your first comment about Joan McAlpine. Maybe I shoud have made it clear in my post. With regards to your second comment about Alasdair Gray.So what if you've found one example of an SNP supporter being Anti-English. Why does this mean the SNP in general are Anti-English?
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MatureStudent36
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#2439
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#2439
(Original post by Kj91)
I was referring to your first comment about Joan McAlpine. Maybe I shoud have made it clear in my post. With regards to your second comment about Alasdair Gray.So what if you've found one example of an SNP supporter being Anti-English. Why does this mean the SNP in general are Anti-English?

Merely an observation from the hardcore SNP supporters I've met. Remember most of the people who voted fir the SNP don't seem to follow they're core aim. They got bought in with the freebies and a general malaise of the main steam political parties.
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L i b
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#2440
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#2440
(Original post by Radio4)
Well, apart from the creepy SNP ones who think Scotland shouldn't be part of England, everyone I know in Scotland is Labour. Also, I thought that since 1997, there's never been more than one Conservative MP in Scotland.
At the last general election, the Tories in Scotland got over 400,000 votes. The SNP and Lib Dems were all also in the 400,000-range, while Labour powered ahead with just over a million.

So in reality, there are 2.5 Labour supporters for every Tory in Scotland.

Funnily enough, this 400,000ish figure was enough to get the Lib Dems 11 MPs in Scotland and the Tories just got 1. I suppose that First Past the Post for you. Where I grew up, the Tories got over 50% of the vote.
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