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    (Original post by KrisCussans)
    It's not self-defence to kill innocent people, to bomb homes and infrastructure. It is a war crime. It is not even 'collateral', it is purposeful targeting of civilians with inaccurate weapons.
    I agree deliberate targeting of civillians is nothing less than a war crime.

    However, there is more to the Israeli attacks than that. The majority of Israeli strikes are targeted at regions in which Hamas rockets have been launched from. Hamas choose where they fire their rockets from, they know Israel will retaliate in that region, they know civilians will die.

    Israel claim they are using precision bombing, they clearly aren't. I do, however, struggle to offer an alternative to the retaliation against Hamas rockets. By international law, civillian collateral is not illegal when the intended target was military, it's obviously not encouraged either though.

    Israel are not legally obliged to NOT fire at the regions Hamas launch from. You could argue that they are MORALLY obliged to NOT fire but then they would argue in return that they ARE morally obliged to defend their own citizens. No country in the world would accept "but they only killed 30 of your guys" as a reason to not obliterate a smaller nation. Take a moment to consider if North Korea landed a rocket in the US and killed 30 US citizens; take a moment to recall Pearl Harbour and Hiroshima and Nagisaki.

    Having said all that, Israel clearly do not have the military capacity to accurately strike buildings or streets where launches are coming from. Even if they did, Hamas are launching from hospitals, schools and residential neighbourhoods so there will always be civillian deaths even if they had inch precise laser guided shells.

    Lets not pretend that Hamas aren't deliberately provoking Israel to strike and kill innocent Palestinians. Hamas cannot win a war with Israel using a handfull of crappy rockets and some tunnels. They can, however, very easily win a propaganda war with thousands of dead Palenstinians.

    Both parties in this conflict are culpable. Their unwillingness to swallow their pride and riddiculous ideals to sit down and end this once and for all with an internationally mediated peace treaty, is what is killing innocent people. Innocent people who deserve far, far better than their political leaders are affording them.
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    (Original post by MattBerry96)
    The article says Hamas rejected it as they want a complete end to the fighting and an end to the blockade instead of a ceasefire. They also believed Israel were going to prepare for more attacks during the ceasefire.
    Do Hamas actually believe that the glorified fireworks that they call rockets are going to force Israel into any kind of concession?

    Hamas need to surrender and stop wasting their time, for the sake of their own people.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Do you know the difference between a ceasefire and a humanitarian ceasefire, or are you deliberately being obtuse to cover for the disgraceful behaviour of palestinians?
    Again enough with your propaganda tactics, blaming the palestinians just like the IDF you support sees children as young as six months deserving of death and dismemberment because they ''elected'' hamas thus they all deserve to die, as I said before hamas and idf deserve each other.
    And if israel was so humanitarian and concerned about civilians why did it take them 3 weeks of bombardment and thousands of dead, wounded and internally displaced before they announced a ''humanitarian'' ceasefire.
    Or could it be a ploy by the IDF to regroup and reassess after the 60 odd dead IDF soldiers and dozens wounded.
    You see we can all play the accusations game.
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    People do realise that this war has been going on for years and no one has batted an eyelash at children being kidnapped and prisoned without lawyers and also tortured by israel for decades? And suddenly theres an outrage over 3 israeli civilians dead. The media is sooooo pro-israel its not even funny, especially the american news. Has anyone been on the website ifamericansknew? Very knowledgeable.

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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Do Hamas actually believe that the glorified fireworks that they call rockets are going to force Israel into any kind of concession?

    Hamas need to surrender and stop wasting their time, for the sake of their own people.
    Nothing is going to force Israel into any form of concession. Netanyahu and his political chums live off war.

    Agreed, Hamas need to go away. They are clearly outmatched by Israel and are not going to beat them in a war.

    Both sides need to put their weapons down and actually negotiate a peaceful solution to this conflict. But both sides get popularity from their people when there is war so don't think we will be seeing an end to the conflict any time soon.
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    Everytime I flip on the news channels, it makes me tear up to the point I can't watch anymore and become so angry with the outcome of this conflict. Innocent lives being taken and I feel so useless doing crap all and sulking.

    How do you see this conflict, if at all, being resolved?

    What can I do, to be of assistance? Protest/Donate/Join petitions?

    What are your thoughts on the conflict?
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    The Israeli government is committing war crimes as highlighted by the UN, which is utterly despicable. I dont understand how anyone can justify these actions.

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    (Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo)
    What are you implying by this video? Are you pro-Isreal in the current conflict?
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    What are you implying by this video? Are you pro-Isreal in the current conflict?
    Yep.
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    I don't see why Palestinians are complaining about Israel's assault in one breath, and in the next saying they will fight to the death and support Hamas' rocketing Israel's civilians. It's pretty obvious the latter leads to the former, so one can only conclude that this is exactly what the Palestinians wanted. If you poke a tiger in the eye with a sharp stick, don't be surprised if it bites back, and hard.

    I think Israel should just annex the West Bank and give every Palestinian in that area Israeli citizenship. Israel would still have a large Jewish majority, and Israeli women on trend will have higher fertility than Arab women which has been dropped precipitously. Then, the Palestinians could enjoy the civil rights their Arab Israeli cousins do

    Gaza could then be permitted to form its own Palestinian state under Israeli control, or join Egypt.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Perhaps you should have a look at the formation of Hamas and who created them to balance the power of Yassir Arafat...

    ""Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction."

    Regardless of all that- if you believe that Hamas's use of divinity to justify their claim on the land is unjustified then you either believe the same about Israel or are a hypocrite.

    Are you seriously trying to justify Israel's apartheid and colonialism by saying Muslims did the same thing a 1000 years ago?
    I do believe that Israel's claim to ownership based on primacy and divine revelation is unjust. So given two such unjust claims, I must base my view of legitimacy on some other factor. Perhaps the respect of the state for the natural rights of man, perhaps the standard of security and prosperity provided to the clients of the state, perhaps the integrity and honesty of its democratic forms, perhaps by brute ability to prevail in a struggle of life and death - on one, or many, of these, Israel and Palestine must be weighed in the balance. Which do you choose?
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    There has to cooperation from both sides, with both willing to stop the fighting. I believe the original issue has been almost forgotten with both sides just responding with violence to the other.
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    I think there'll be a cease fire. Until then, because the Jews controlling basically almost everything, we will have to wait until they become few in number (because of their ageing population) or Hamas comes back stronger, with the backing of others.

    Eventually, one Side will have to win, and it's not looking good for the Jews even if the do manage to wipe out hamas.

    You can help by exposing the jews.
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    (Original post by MattBerry96)
    The article says Hamas rejected it as they want a complete end to the fighting and an end to the blockade instead of a ceasefire. They also believed Israel were going to prepare for more attacks during the ceasefire.
    It never ceases to amaze me how people will just parrot the Hamas line like it's completely honest and trustworthy.

    Unbelievable.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    So how many wars over the last 50 years has Israel been involved in? And how many wars did Israel actually start? :rolleyes:
    I think we are not in a position to judge them....
    Judging by the amount of deaths they've caused I think we are. Has there been any peace in Israel's entire history? I think settling on Palestinian land was a pretty significant event that lead to the bloodshed.
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    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...1878216?page=1

    Streets in the West Bank are colour coded according to whether a Palestinian can walk down it or not?

    How exactly in this NOT apartheid? I'm a strong critic of Hamas but if you treat a people like animals and they respond like animals, well, you can hardly be surprised.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    It never ceases to amaze me how people will just parrot the Hamas line like it's completely honest and trustworthy.

    Unbelievable.
    That is the reason they gave for not wanting a ceasefire. Surprisingly I can't read the Hamas leaderships minds to find out their true intentions. Also if you read my other post on this page you will learn that I certainly do not 'parrot' the Hamas line, intact I called for Hamas to go away.
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    I actually thought Hamas would surrender soon..But since that doesn't seem likely at all, i predict the Palestine death toll will almost double before either a ceasefire is truly called or Hamas gains support..

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    Power sharing government just like in Northern Ireland, it is the only way. At least that way the can fight it out in words.

    But, just like NI, when bigots are involved it is never easy. I doubt Israel will want to go into a power sharing government with people they believe they are superior to. It is the same as NI on so many levels, so why shouldn't the outcome also be the same?
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