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    It can only end in bloodshed - Hamas won't sit down to negotiate, and while their neighbours are calling for their eradication and lobbing bombs in their back garden, Israel is going to keep up the military action. Unless there's a massive shift in attitudes, it'll only end once one of the two groups has been completely destroyed.
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    (Original post by broscience123)
    Typical Zionist nonsense.

    "Hey 3 Israeli teenagers got kidnapped, without any proof lets blame Hamas. First we'll kidnap (or "arrest") 400 Palestinians whilst killing 10 of them, then we'll start bombing them, and if they retaliate, we'll kill another 1000. WOOP WOOP GO ISRAEL!!"
    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    Yes because innocent children and women are so threatening that they must be murdered immediately.
    Talk of 'women and children' is simply sexist. What about innocent men? Their deaths are just as tragic.

    And, none of these deaths are deliberate. They are simply accidental and collateral damage. Hamas are firing rockets from densely populated areas. If you do that, you have to expect a response, and inevitably there are going to be casualties. Hamas deliberately operate from densely populated areas, this is so they can blame Israel for deaths or try to use it so Israel don't respond. If Person A were firing rockets from his house into Person B's house, Person B would have to hit back. Doesn't matter if there was 1M civilians in Person A's house, Person B would have to stop Person A and protect those in his house so he'd hit back, and blame the civilian deaths on Person A.

    Hamas should recognise Israel's right to exist, as a Jewish state and under new borders. Only then can their be peace. Israel does everything it can to minimise civilian casualties.
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    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    Judging by the amount of deaths they've caused I think we are. Has there been any peace in Israel's entire history? I think settling on Palestinian land was a pretty significant event that lead to the bloodshed.
    A double bout of nonsense. The amount of deaths caused is in no way shape or form a way to measure the level of aggressor. The UK caused more Argentinian deaths in the Falklands war than Argentina did UK deaths. The same with the Allies and the Axis Powers in WW2. It simply shows who has the better military capabilities and nothing else.

    They did no such thing. Israelites have been on that land since biblical times, long before Islam existed. They were forced out by the Roman Empire and gradually returned to their land. Both sides have historical claims to that land, the idea that it was originally 'Palestinian land' is a nonsense.
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    hey!!!! the 'poor Israelis' have a right to defend themselves from 3 year old child terrorists with full military might... obviously everyone knows Palestinian children are affiliated with Hamas... *cough*
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Hamas should recognise Israel's right to exist, as a Jewish state and under new borders. Only then can their be peace. Israel does everything it can to minimise civilian casualties.
    Your comment is so preposterous its nearly amusing. Of course Israel has right to exist. I mean its not like land was brutally seized through means of violence and terror.
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    Jews/Israelis cry and to this day condemn Hitler for his atrocities, lol what a bunch of hypocrites


    Israel is the new Nazi state, Netanyahu is the new Hitler


    the IDF (Israeli terrorist force) is the new Nazi SS
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    It was Hamas who bombed the UN school in Gaza.

    Animals.
    last time I checked Hamas didn't have an airforce,
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    It can only end in bloodshed - Hamas won't sit down to negotiate, and while their neighbours are calling for their eradication and lobbing bombs in their back garden, Israel is going to keep up the military action. Unless there's a massive shift in attitudes, it'll only end once one of the two groups has been completely destroyed.
    But that won't ever happen.

    Israel is currently a Western funded and recognised nation, there is no reason why it would disappear suddenly unless the USA and its lap dogs (UK, France etc) disappear first, and that won't happen anytime soon.

    As for Hamas, sure, they might disappear. But what happens when the 10 year old boy who didn't know who's wound he should put pressure on as his entire family bleed to death in their bombed out home? What about him and the thousands others with similar stories? Or all the innocent people who get picked up when Israel accuse them of being terrorists?

    Israel may think they are protecting their people, but in fact they are making it much much worse. A population of young radicals is much more dangerous than an unpopular group of militia men. Things like only deepen Palestinian dissent towards Israel, which means it is only a matter of time before it all flares up again even if a long term ceasefire is made.

    Humans are humans at the end of the day. Remove the oppression and suddenly the romantic idea of nationalism begins to fade away. Northern Ireland is a perfect example of this. But it is Israel will not allow such a monstrosity to occur...
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    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    Your comment is so preposterous its nearly amusing. Of course Israel has right to exist. I mean its not like land was brutally seized through means of violence and terror.
    They do though. They make phone calls, distribute leaflets, don't strike at some targets if civilians are found to be in there. Hamas use people as human shields. Israel had the right to self-defence in both the 48-49 Arab-Israeli war and the 1967 Six Day War.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    A double bout of nonsense. The amount of deaths caused is in no way shape or form a way to measure the level of aggressor. The UK caused more Argentinian deaths in the Falklands war than Argentina did UK deaths. The same with the Allies and the Axis Powers in WW2. It simply shows who has the better military capabilities and nothing else.

    They did no such thing. Israelites have been on that land since biblical times, long before Islam existed. They were forced out by the Roman Empire and gradually returned to their land. Both sides have historical claims to that land, the idea that it was originally 'Palestinian land' is a nonsense.
    Please don't tell me you're comparing Palestine's right to the land with Israel's? Seriously I'm dumbfounded by how ignorant you are to the fact that the land is just not a piece of land to Palestinians. Homes, shops, public facilities have been built. Just because a bunch of people lived their centuries ago doesn't give them the right to the land.
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    (Original post by Et Tu, Brute?)
    But that won't ever happen.

    Israel is currently a Western funded and recognised nation, there is no reason why it would disappear suddenly unless the USA and its lap dogs (UK, France etc) disappear first, and that won't happen anytime soon.

    As for Hamas, sure, they might disappear. But what happens when the 10 year old boy who didn't know who's wound he should put pressure on as his entire family bleed to death in their bombed out home? What about him and the thousands others with similar stories? Or all the innocent people who get picked up when Israel accuse them of being terrorists?

    Israel may think they are protecting their people, but in fact they are making it much much worse. A population of young radicals is much more dangerous than an unpopular group of militia men. Things like only deepen Palestinian dissent towards Israel, which means it is only a matter of time before it all flares up again even if a long term ceasefire is made.
    So what would you suggest Israel do then? If they put down their arms, they'll be slaughtered in their millions. That seems a fairly good reason to keep on protecting itself.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    They do though. They make phone calls, distribute leaflets, don't strike at some targets if civilians are found to be in there. Hamas use people as human shields. Israel had the right to self-defence in both the 48-49 Arab-Israeli war and the 1967 Six Day War.
    Israel should stop seizing land. Instead of the Jews integrating with Palestinian society they formed their own. Had they tried behaving like this towards a European country the entire world would've taken action.
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    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    Please don't tell me you're comparing Palestine's right to the land with Israel's? Seriously I'm dumbfounded by how ignorant you are to the fact that the land is just not a piece of land to Palestinians. Homes, shops, public facilities have been built. Just because a bunch of people lived their centuries ago doesn't give them the right to the land.
    Both peoples have historical claims, both have been there in one form on another since the dawn of time. Eretz Yisrael will always be the home of the Jewish people.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...1878216?page=1

    Streets in the West Bank are colour coded according to whether a Palestinian can walk down it or not?

    How exactly in this NOT apartheid? I'm a strong critic of Hamas but if you treat a people like animals and they respond like animals, well, you can hardly be surprised.
    I would be very wary of any Irish source as they are notoriously anti-Israel and untrustworthy.

    I prefer not to give them clicks, so haven't read the actual article - but from what I understand it's only Hebron that has separate walking area to get through a fence.

    Hebron has notoriously been a flashpoint for decades and separation between Israelis and palestinians was deemed necessary.

    May I remind you of a wall in Belfast that separates Catholics and protestants.
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    The Zionist entity is a terrorist organisation.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Both peoples have historical claims, both have been there in one form on another since the dawn of time. Eretz Yisrael will always be the home of the Jewish people.
    It shall always be the home of Palestinian people. Before Hitler, I am sure you could've asked any German Jew where their true home was and they definitely would've have said "A far away land that our great ancestors had ties to". What would they have said? "Germany." But as soon as they get kicked out they reclaim their "home".
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    So what would you suggest Israel do then? If they put down their arms, they'll be slaughtered in their millions. That seems a fairly good reason to keep on protecting itself.
    How so? They have their iron dome and they have one of the worlds most sophisticated military. All that needs to be done is remove the oppression they inflict on Palestine, maybe even a power sharing sort of outcome. Palestinian decommissioning could be a requirement for any sort of agreement. If it worked in NI it can work in Palestine.

    You can't really justify dropping bombs on hospitals, schools, homes etc as protection. You can't fight a guerrilla war like that. Like I said, it only radicalizes the population and in turn the militants aren't seen as terrorists who disrupt the peace, but freedom fighters. The UK never needed to fly jets over west Belfast and bomb it to bits despite the IRA living, operating and hiding weapons there, so why is it ok for Israel to do just that in Gaza?

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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    I would be very wary of any Irish source as they are notoriously anti-Israel and untrustworthy.

    I prefer not to give them clicks, so haven't read the actual article - but from what I understand it's only Hebron that has separate walking area to get through a fence.

    Hebron has notoriously been a flashpoint for decades and separation between Israelis and palestinians was deemed necessary.

    May I remind you of a wall in Belfast that separates Catholics and protestants.
    Did you read the article at all? It's in conversation with an ex-Israeli soldier.

    What's Belfast got to do with anything? Other than being a possible template for peace. The Irish Times is published in Dublin, not Belfast, anyway. So what sources should we trust? Fox? The Jerusalem Post? Or maybe we should be reading the Guardian and watching Al Jazeera?
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    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    Judging by the amount of deaths they've caused I think we are. Has there been any peace in Israel's entire history? I think settling on Palestinian land was a pretty significant event that lead to the bloodshed.
    Wow, so you didn't answer a single question I asked. Talk about ignorant. Now go away, read some history, then come back.
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    (Original post by Et Tu, Brute?)
    How so? They have their iron dome and they have one of the worlds most sophisticated military. All that needs to be done is remove the oppression they inflict on Palestine, maybe even a power sharing sort of outcome. Palestinian decommissioning could be a requirement for any sort of agreement. If it worked in NI it can work in Palestine.

    You can't really justify dropping bombs on hospitals, schools, homes etc as protection. You can't fight a guerrilla war like that. Like I said, it only radicalizes the population and in turn the militants aren't seen as terrorists who disrupt the peace, but freedom fighters. The UK never needed to fly jets over west Belfast and bomb it to bits despite the IRA living, operating and hiding weapons there, so why is it ok for Israel to do just that in Gaza?
    Iron Dome would be overwhelmed if they didn't strike against the stores of Hamas missiles as well, and the army isn't much use if they've layed down their arms. That's sort of the point of laying down arms.

    And you can't really justify hiding weaponry in schools, hospitals, homes etc, and yet Hamas do.
 
 
 
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