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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Surely knowing English gives you around as much German as it does Latin? Depends on the topic, I guess.
    Well one or two words on a page, maybe, yes. But I don't know what it is, my brain just rebels when confronted with German and refuses to translate. I will repeat that I really am absymal at languages.
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    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    Well one or two words on a page, maybe, yes. But I don't know what it is, my brain just rebels when confronted with German and refuses to translate. I will repeat that I really am absymal at languages.
    Fair enough. Actually (more for my amusement than anything else), comparing Genesis 1:1-5 and adding the words I think I could guess without knowing the language, Latin does seem to come out on top by a margin:

    German
    1Am Anfang schuf Gott (God) Himmel und (and) Erde (Earth). 2Und die Erde war wüst und leer, und es war finster auf der Tiefe; und der Geist (ghost) Gottes schwebte auf dem Wasser (water). 3Und Gott sprach: Es werde Licht (light)! und es ward Licht. 4Und Gott sah, daß das Licht gut (good) war. Da schied Gott das Licht von der Finsternis 5und nannte das Licht Tag (day) und die Finsternis Nacht (night). Da ward aus Abend und Morgen (morning) der erste Tag.

    Latin
    1in principio creavit (created) Deus (God) caelum et terram (earth) 2terra autem erat inanis et vacua (empty) et tenebrae super (over) faciem abyssi et spiritus (spirit) Dei ferebatur super aquas (water) 3dixitque Deus fiat lux (light) et facta est lux 4et vidit Deus lucem quod esset bona (good) et divisit (divided) lucem ac tenebras 5appellavitque (called) lucem diem (day) et tenebras noctem (night) factumque est vespere (evening) et mane dies unus (one)
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Fair enough. Actually (more for my amusement than anything else), comparing Genesis 1:1-5 and adding the words I think I could guess without knowing the language, Latin does seem to come out on top by a margin:

    German
    1Am Anfang schuf Gott (God) Himmel und (and) Erde (Earth). 2Und die Erde war wüst und leer, und es war finster auf der Tiefe; und der Geist (ghost) Gottes schwebte auf dem Wasser (water). 3Und Gott sprach: Es werde Licht (light)! und es ward Licht. 4Und Gott sah, daß das Licht gut (good) war. Da schied Gott das Licht von der Finsternis 5und nannte das Licht Tag (day) und die Finsternis Nacht (night). Da ward aus Abend und Morgen (morning) der erste Tag.

    Latin
    1in principio creavit (created) Deus (God) caelum et terram (earth) 2terra autem erat inanis et vacua (empty) et tenebrae super (over) faciem abyssi et spiritus (spirit) Dei ferebatur super aquas (water) 3dixitque Deus fiat lux (light) et facta est lux 4et vidit Deus lucem quod esset bona (good) et divisit (divided) lucem ac tenebras 5appellavitque (called) lucem diem (day) et tenebras noctem (night) factumque est vespere (evening) et mane dies unus (one)
    I think Latin translations are easier for me, even though I've never studied it in my life, because as you read it it sounds so awesome - like a magic spell
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    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    I think Latin translations are easier for me, even though I've never studied it in my life, because as you read it it sounds so awesome - like a magic spell
    Or as the old joke goes, Quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur
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    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    I think Latin translations are easier for me, even though I've never studied it in my life, because as you read it it sounds so awesome - like a magic spell
    Well, depends on how you pronounce it. At school the pronounciation we were taught was basically Italian but with 'v' sounding like the English 'w'. Church Latin sounds quite different. I get a kick out of being able to read both, though. :p:

    In a bookshop here in Berlin the other week I found them selling Descartes' Meditations in side-by-side Latin and German, which was pretty awesome. Also a book of Pompeian graffiti. :awesome:

    (Original post by shoshin)
    Or as the old joke goes, Quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, indeed.
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    Or as the old joke goes, Quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur
    Waitwaitwait... Let me see... The way latin is said is higher than it sounds? Or something like that?

    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Well, depends on how you pronounce it. At school the pronounciation we were taught was basically Italian but with 'v' sounding like the English 'w'. Church Latin sounds quite different. I get a kick out of being able to read both, though. :p:

    In a bookshop here in Berlin the other week I found them selling Descartes' Meditations in side-by-side Latin and German, which was pretty awesome. Also a book of Pompeian graffiti. :awesome:

    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, indeed.
    All the latin I know comes from having to translate bits of medieval legal documents, religious decrees and the Malleus Maleficarum for the past year. So none of it is spoken, and the way I pronounce it in my head is probably completely wrong I don't care, it sounds cool to me! And Pompeian graffiti is awesome - just shows you that human nature never changes.

    And I have no idea what you just said.
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Well, depends on how you pronounce it. At school the pronounciation we were taught was basically Italian but with 'v' sounding like the English 'w'. Church Latin sounds quite different. I get a kick out of being able to read both, though. :p:

    In a bookshop here in Berlin the other week I found them selling Descartes' Meditations in side-by-side Latin and German, which was pretty awesome. Also a book of Pompeian graffiti. :awesome:


    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, indeed.
    What are you going to do when zoedotdot reminds us that we have to provide translations for anything not in English? :eek:
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    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    Waitwaitwait... Let me see... The way latin is said is higher than it sounds? Or something like that?
    "Whatever you say in Latin sounds like it's deep". But good try. :p:

    (Original post by shoshin)
    What are you going to do when zoedotdot reminds us that we have to provide translations for anything not in English? :eek:
    Add the proper referencing to Catullus? It's a good poem.
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    "Whatever you say in Latin sounds like it's deep". But good try. :p:
    Ah. "Altus" meaning deep, not high (I was going for 'altitude'). Now you see why I get cross when something turns up in Latin untranslated. Good job I know a Classics student or two
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    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    Ah. "Altus" meaning deep, not high (I was going for 'altitude'). Now you see why I get cross when something turns up in Latin untranslated. Good job I know a Classics student or two
    It can mean both, actually, along with the more metaphorical 'profound' definition. Although to be honest before I double-checked it I had put 'old', so don't trust me. :p:
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    It can mean both, actually, along with the more metaphorical 'profound' definition. Although to be honest before I double-checked it I had put 'old', so don't trust me. :p:
    It must be the way I tell 'em
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    (Original post by Nag o ma Scylla)
    Most of the words you say you'd know without knowing any Latin aren't really the same as the English ones, they just have more complex English derivatives; so if somebody had a smaller/more basic vocabulary they'd surely find it easier to read the German. e. g. the link between 'evening' and 'vespere' isn't very obvious ...

    ooh er
    I tried to assume the vocabulary of a clever person who hadn't studied Latin or German, but obviously it's hard to deliberately forget the meaning of words you know. I left out 'principio' (beginning), 'faciem' (surface), 'ferebatur' (carried), 'dixitque' (said) and 'facta' (made) even though they all have close English derivatives with similar meanings (I also left a few out of the German too), but obviously it's not perfect. So much of figuring out meaning comes from context anyway.

    It's literature, stop that giggling at the back, please. :yep:
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    What a lovely poem
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    (Original post by micky022)
    What a lovely poem
    Cyclic construction, commentary on the position of the poet in Roman society, a glimpse into how competing poets interacted personally and professionally, allusions to Catullus' other works, use of colloquial register in an artistic structure, contemplations on the nature of masculinity, what's not to like?

    It's always fun when you get an edition that glosses the dirty words into more Latin rather than English, too. I recall reading that "irrumabo = mentulam in os inserere".
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Cyclic construction, commentary on the position of the poet in Roman society, a glimpse into how competing poets interacted personally and professionally, allusions to Catullus' other works, use of colloquial register in an artistic structure, contemplations on the nature of masculinity, what's not to like?

    It's always fun when you get an edition that glosses the dirty words into more Latin rather than English, too. I recall reading that "irrumabo = mentulam in os inserere".
    Maybe the sodomy and face-boning, just a little bit
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    Cyclic construction, commentary on the position of the poet in Roman society, a glimpse into how competing poets interacted personally and professionally, allusions to Catullus' other works, use of colloquial register in an artistic structure, contemplations on the nature of masculinity, what's not to like?
    And I thought you were just trying to chat me up. I mean, I was flattered and all, but I'm not that way inclined.
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    (Original post by Nag o ma Scylla)
    I often look at French and think how easy it is for an English speaker to understand [not my reading list though ...] forgetting that I've been studying it for >7 years. That said, my dad hasn't done French since O-Level 46 years ago and reads it very well (his pronunciation is awful though ).

    I miss Latin A-level ... sex seemd to come up a lot. It did in English Literature GCSE as well, but that was just our teacher (who is one of the chief examiners for one of the A-level boards, so there must be something in it!).

    [SIZE="1"](I do actually like Latin for the language though, seriously )[/SIZE]

    Wow!
    Yeah, I can sort of figure out French (and Spanish, Italian etc.) if I know what it's about, but sadly learning does seem necessary to understanding a language properly.

    It used to be common practice not to translate dirty passages into English, so a gloss into more Latin was the best that could be done. I recall reading about texts that just skipped chunks out with a note referring to 'the unspeakable vice of the Greeks', but I don't know how true that is.

    (Original post by shoshin)
    And I thought you were just trying to chat me up. I mean, I was flattered and all, but I'm not that way inclined.
    Nah, I don't use Catullus for chat-up lines, honest. He does some good genuinely romantic stuff as well, though...
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    (Original post by micky022)
    I'm hoping to do Russian; bought a book on Wednesday and I'm going to make a proper start tonight. It doesn't seem too bad...
    (Original post by micky022)
    What subject are you doing?

    German is a horrid-sounding language, you could be calling someone beautiful and it sounds like you're threatening to torture them...
    What book are you using?
    I've found Oxford Take Off in Russian for a quarter of the price on another site, and it's in my library. The New Penguin Russian Course is the cheapest of this version but it looks good, but it's not available in my library. (Sorry for plaguing you with questions! Out of interest, why did you choose to learn Russian?)
    My reasons for wanting to learn aren't even any good - I'd like to read some of the books (19th/20th Century) in their original! Same with German... and that might be more 'useful'? Talk about tenuous

    I'm (hopefully) doing History & English so maybe trying to learn a language will stretch me even thinner! Still I don't like the idea of remaining monolingual, but I never liked French.

    (Original post by Incarnadine91)
    I should probably have clarified: one of the versions of the French Revolution course is closed to me, the one in which you work from primary sources, not the time period as a whole. There will probably be plenty of other options where you deal with translations, it's just they're by nature going to be slightly flawed compared to the originals. And that's only because I haven't done French since year 9 and detested it even then. With a GCSE in it you'd probably get by fine. You'll be busy, yes, but they design these courses with us in mind so I'm sure you'd be able to fit it in.

    If you're another historian I'm happy to answer your questions too
    Oh, okay, thank you! I'll hopefully be a half-blood historian. :cool:
    I have a question for English but I suppose it applies to History too - on my reading lists it says it's usual (but not mandatory) for HENGers to take Old English Module, as opposed to Victorian for the first year. But I've been given a reading list for both, and the Victorian list is rather extensive! Do you know if I choose now, or try to read half from each?... When you choose modules, do you get 'tasters' of both or simply go straight into one, forgoing another?
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    (Original post by JAR12)
    My reasons for wanting to learn aren't even any good - I'd like to read some of the books (19th/20th Century) in their original! Same with German... and that might be more 'useful'? Talk about tenuous
    How could that even be considered to be a bad reason? :confused:

    I'd like to learn Russian, but mostly because it sounds cool and I can pretend to be a spy. I'm sure the literature is also fantastic, but only being about half-way through Crime and Punishment I can't really comment.
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    (Original post by dbmag9)
    How could that even be considered to be a bad reason? :confused:

    I'd like to learn Russian, but mostly because it sounds cool and I can pretend to be a spy. I'm sure the literature is also fantastic, but only being about half-way through Crime and Punishment I can't really comment.
    Well I wasn't going to admit to that but same
    Love C&P - I wanted to tackle the Brothers Karamozav over Summer, but it's not happening. I know one of my college's tutors loves Dostoyevsky (and I think my other interview looked at us with disgust)!
 
 
 
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