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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV Watch

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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    It never ceases to amaze me how people will just parrot the Hamas line like it's completely honest and trustworthy.

    Unbelievable.
    Of course the Hamas line cannot be taken as completely trustworthy.

    But what about the Israeli line? Should we parrot that like it's trustworthy and honest? Should you ever trust the story of somebody who has just killed hundreds of civilians?
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    (Original post by JanitaTwain)
    It shall always be the home of Palestinian people. Before Hitler, I am sure you could've asked any German Jew where their true home was and they definitely would've have said "A far away land that our great ancestors had ties to". What would they have said? "Germany." But as soon as they get kicked out they reclaim their "home".
    The land that become Palestine wasn't a country until 1948. Hitler was one of the main reasons the Jews need a state.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Iron Dome would be overwhelmed if they didn't strike against the stores of Hamas missiles as well, and the army isn't much use if they've layed down their arms. That's sort of the point of laying down arms.

    And you can't really justify hiding weaponry in schools, hospitals, homes etc, and yet Hamas do.
    Who said anything about disarming Israel?

    Yep, you are spot on there actually.

    But of course the obvious thing to do is clearly to simply give a 4 minute warning to evacuate or whatever and then bomb the hospital and everyone still inside it right? I mean sending in a much more sophisticated and better trained army to find and remove the weapons that way isn't worth 1000s of innocent lives I guess, they're only Arabs afterall right?
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    (Original post by BasharAssad)
    last time I checked Hamas didn't have an airforce, loser!
    Remember when Israel conquered Syria, Jordan and Egypt?!

    Lmao now theres some losers eh

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Et Tu, Brute?)
    Who said anything about disarming Israel?

    Yep, you are spot on there actually.

    But of course the obvious thing to do is clearly to simply give a 4 minute warning to evacuate or whatever and then bomb the hospital and everyone still inside it right? I mean sending in a much more sophisticated and better trained army to find and remove the weapons that way isn't worth 1000s of innocent lives I guess, they're only Arabs afterall right?
    I did. You said Israel needed to stop bombing the Palestinians and I said that if they put down their arms they'd be slaughtered in seconds.

    Giving a warning to evacuate before then dealing with it is a fair move tbh - it clearly demonstrates a desire to destroy the bombs being launched at them, not to kill citizens. What instead you're suggesting is the IDF carrying out an invasion every couple of days to disarm weaponry in the hands of people that want them dead. That's a suicide mission if ever I've heard one.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    Did you read the article at all? It's in conversation with an ex-Israeli soldier.

    What's Belfast got to do with anything? Other than being a possible template for peace. The Irish Times is published in Dublin, not Belfast, anyway. So what sources should we trust? Fox? The Jerusalem Post? Or maybe we should be reading the Guardian and watching Al Jazeera?
    As I said, I don't click on Irish links as I don't want to add to their click revenue.

    What does Belfast have to do with it? well, there is a wall there that separates people along sectarian lines.

    So perhaps people should take that into account before wagging their finger at others.

    Additionally, I have never heard of these colour codes you speak of.

    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    Of course the Hamas line cannot be taken as completely trustworthy.

    But what about the Israeli line? Should we parrot that like it's trustworthy and honest? Should you ever trust the story of somebody who has just killed hundreds of civilians?
    Well Israel has a free press with more independent journalists per capita than anywhere in the world bar the USA.

    As well as an independent watch dog over the military.

    They can't get away with the kind of propaganda that Hamas can - since they control all media in Gaza.
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    Another ceasefire, how long until Hamas breaks it again?
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I did. You said Israel needed to stop bombing the Palestinians and I said that if they put down their arms they'd be slaughtered in seconds.

    Giving a warning to evacuate before then dealing with it is a fair move tbh - it clearly demonstrates a desire to destroy the bombs being launched at them, not to kill citizens. What instead you're suggesting is the IDF carrying out an invasion every couple of days to disarm weaponry in the hands of people that want them dead. That's a suicide mission if ever I've heard one.
    Oh...so it is cool beans when Israel do...but when the IRA sent their warnings to evacuate, the terminology changes and it becomes and act or terrorism. Right, ok, whatever.

    Also, there is a massive difference between having weapons but using them only as a last resort and disarming weapons. Massive massive difference.

    Well there is risk in war, that is what is needed if they want to protect civilians on both side, but they don't do it because they value Jewish lives in higher regard than Arab ones, which is why I don't understand why people seem to think it is enough to send in a little warning pop before bombing a whole building. The IRA did it so, to me at least, Israel are no better than them, in fact they are even worse than the IRA whose warnings were much more timely.

    Also, if Israel removed the reason for Hamas to fire rockets at them in the first place, they wouldn't have to send anyone in at all. But it is Israel afterall, no more than a western funded terrorist organisation. You can hardly expect terrorists to think logically.
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    Did anyone else here laughing? I didn't.

    Civilian casualties would be far lower if Hamas stood up and fought the Israelis, instead of using civilians as shields from which to fire rockets. Only cowards use a school as cover to fire rockets from?
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    As I said, I don't click on Irish links as I don't want to add to their click revenue.

    What does Belfast have to do with it? well, there is a wall there that separates people along sectarian lines.

    So perhaps people should take that into account before wagging their finger at others.

    Additionally, I have never heard of these colour codes you speak of.



    Well Israel has a free press with more independent journalists per capita than anywhere in the world bar the USA.

    As well as an independent watch dog over the military.

    They can't get away with the kind of propaganda that Hamas can - since they control all media in Gaza.
    I live in Belfast.Unless you're from there yourself I would suspect I'm in a better position to judge it as a city than yourself. I'm also probably in a better position to judge the Irish attitude towards Israel-Palestine so don't lecture me on that point wither

    Well maybe you should read the article and find out about the damn colour codes. You are being willfully ignorant.

    I recognise Israel's freedom of press. I've been reading Israeli journalists on both sides of the argument. You seem to assume I am some Hamas nutcase who wishes to see the destruction of Israel. That is far from the reality. I'm just a little bit disturbed at their treatment of Palestinians.
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    (Original post by Et Tu, Brute?)
    Oh...so it is cool beans when Israel do...but when the IRA sent their warnings to evacuate, the terminology changes and it becomes and act or terrorism. Right, ok, whatever.

    Also, there is a massive difference between having weapons but using them only as a last resort and disarming weapons. Massive massive difference.

    Well there is risk in war, that is what is needed if they want to protect civilians on both side, but they don't do it because they value Jewish lives in higher regard than Arab ones, which is why I don't understand why people seem to think it is enough to send in a little warning pop before bombing a whole building. The IRA did it so, to me at least, Israel are no better than them, in fact they are even worse than the IRA whose warnings were much more timely.

    Also, if Israel removed the reason for Hamas to fire rockets at them in the first place, they wouldn't have to send anyone in at all. But it is Israel afterall, no more than a western funded terrorist organisation. You can hardly expect terrorists to think logically.
    The IRA were not a government - governments are not classed as terrorist organisations.

    The israelis would certainly argue they are using them as a last resort though, since they're used as a defensive against strikes against them after attempts at negotiations and ceasefires failed.

    As opposed to Hamas, who place no value on Jewish lives and believe they should be eradicated from the face of the earth?

    The reason that Hamas fire rockets at them is because they don't believe that Israel have a right to exist (or this Israelis a right to live). How then do Israel remove the reason for Hamas to fire rockets at them?
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    Israel unconditionally agrees to 24hour humanitarian ceasefire

    palestinian rockets continue to fall in Israel
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    #Free Palestine
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Israel unconditionally agrees to 24hour humanitarian ceasefire

    palestinian rockets continue to fall in Israel
    Huh? Israel can fire or not fire whenever they wish.
    Hamas can fire or not fire whenever they wish
    UNLESS they both mutually agree to a ceasefire.

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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    The IRA were not a government - governments are not classed as terrorist organisations.

    The israelis would certainly argue they are using them as a last resort though, since they're used as a defensive against strikes against them after attempts at negotiations and ceasefires failed.

    As opposed to Hamas, who place no value on Jewish lives and believe they should be eradicated from the face of the earth?

    The reason that Hamas fire rockets at them is because they don't believe that Israel have a right to exist (or this Israelis a right to live). How then do Israel remove the reason for Hamas to fire rockets at them?
    Annnnnnnnnnd the circle is complete, back to the start.

    If Israel didn't oppress their Arab population as they do, the Arab population would see no reason to support the nationalistic ideology that calls for Israel to be removed. If a government which is seen as foreign is oppressing you, you will seek to have your own people rule over you, if everyone is treated equally there is no mass support for organisations such as Hamas and nationalist ideas.
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    Arm the Palestinians and send them to kill ISIS and then relocate them after.
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    Jon Snow's report on Gaza

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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)

    The israelis would certainly argue they are using them as a last resort though, since they're used as a defensive against strikes against them after attempts at negotiations and ceasefires failed.
    Negotitions that had no benefit for the gazans. Blockades, closed borders, and coastal enclaves, things were only ever going to go back to violence.
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    Israel are such savages- how can they murder more than 800 innocent civilians.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Israel unconditionally agrees to 24hour humanitarian ceasefire

    palestinian rockets continue to fall in Israel
    After massively destroying infrastructure as well as slaughtering women/children/civilians, we are now supposed to see this as a gesture of goodwill from Israel and view them as being tranquil?

 
 
 
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