POST HERE For Discussion About The DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN (Updated) Watch

Poll: Osama's death?
He was killed on the 1st of may. (121)
46.36%
He was killed earlyer than the 1st of may (65)
24.9%
He is still alive (37)
14.18%
He is a myth (38)
14.56%
the realist
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#2501
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#2501
(Original post by Lizzzle)
The video's aren't evidence of him being dead no.

The video's are evidence that the compound was indeed his, he did actually live there. He was planning some new attacks, and he lived in squalor.

Given the fact that the Navy Seals busted into that same compound in which he was living in and pretty much killed everyone inside - can be seen as evidence that he's dead. It's not enough evidence granted but it's still there.

His wife and daughter being an eye-witness, and them saying that he's died. Plus Al-Qaeda saying that he's died, plus all of the world's leaders saying that he's died. Plus many extremists mourning his death on the streets all over the world - is proof that he's died.

If he wasn't dead, then as easy as it was for those to film him, surely they can film him being alive and release a video of him saying this too?

You say its "too convenient" and it doesnt "do enough to silence the critics" and you're still "awaiting real evidence" - presumably you want to see the man's dead body - you're saying all of this but offering no alternative.
If he isn't dead, despite everyone who knew him saying he died, plus the world's leaders putting their political careers on the line by also saying he's dead - then how did the CIA get this evidence? Where is he now? Who was inside that compound?

You're trying to be too analytical and critical when you don't need to be, you're being excessive and trying to put holes in everything. The man is dead, accept it and move on.
No thats not how things work, you've reasoned this all very nicely, to yourself that is.

Did you watch the video clips? they are a few seconds and don't even seem to have sound? are you mad? theres no real evidence of anything.

Heres a hint: A court of law wouldn't be buying any of this trash, not that a court or legitimate investigative team will ever fairly be able to look into this, so why YOU argue as an authority of what i or anyone else believe is a mystery.

A few problems here:

Lack of credible witnesses
Lack of body
Lack of murder weapons
etc it goes on and on

A court of law would have a hard time proving anything here. But heyy THOSE ARE ONLY FOR YOU AND ME, not the US government...... don't you think, given that Osama has been hunted for years, that the US government have been critisized for years about this whole shennanigan, that the whole war in afghanistan was supposedly based on his whereabouts, that he was supposedly such a significant character and creative force in the september 11th plots, that he has supposedly been planning more terrorist attacks.... don't you think given these circumstances that the US actually had an interest in preserving Osama's life? That they actually had an OBLIGATION to assuage the concerns of their citizens....this isn't the first time concerns have been raised, the bad handling of the situation

Why kill Osama himself and then go around trying to piece things together with some crappy 10 second video clips you found? On the one hand we hear about how Osama was so careful, secretive that no one knows whats going with him and yet when the US gets the chance they are not even interested in him himself....what the hell is guantanamo for? presumably that place exists because there are people in the world they want to take in alive....question: why didn't they want Osama.

You don't get to knowingly and blatantly commit murder, destroy evidence and give misleading information to a judge/jury and get away with it.....and yet all people want is proof of Osamas existance and death as it has been described by the Americans. Imagine a court that would let you get away with murder provided you simply gave them the evidence.......I do not i believe i ask for too much.
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the realist
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#2502
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#2502
(Original post by Aj12)
Its funny that the one organisation that actually has an interest in this all being fake is the one that has admitted to him being dead.

Al Qaeda ring any bells?
CIA ring any bells?
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Z-Ninja
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#2503
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#2503
America bought "Al-Qaeda" long ago...then they decided to make this terroist bs up because they were bored. End of story.
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Lizzzle
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#2504
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#2504
(Original post by Dekota-XS)
Hold on just a minute... this is like concluding that global warming exists because of witnessing a whole day of torrential rain. The videos aren't evidence to anything, the videos were allegedly found inside the compound, that doesn't prove that the compound was his right? Unless I'm missing something. What possesses you to claim that he was planning some new attacks after watching these audioless videos?

No, we won't accept it as you want to because these are issues which are important to us. If you want to accept it then do so without debating it with other people.

If you don't accept it it doesn't bother me.
But you're just making yourself sound naive.
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Lizzzle
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#2505
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#2505
(Original post by the realist)
No thats not how things work, you've reasoned this all very nicely, to yourself that is.

Did you watch the video clips? they are a few seconds and don't even seem to have sound? are you mad? theres no real evidence of anything.

Heres a hint: A court of law wouldn't be buying any of this trash, not that a court or legitimate investigative team will ever fairly be able to look into this, so why YOU argue as an authority of what i or anyone else believe is a mystery.

A few problems here:

Lack of credible witnesses
Lack of body
Lack of murder weapons
etc it goes on and on

A court of law would have a hard time proving anything here. But heyy THOSE ARE ONLY FOR YOU AND ME, not the US government...... don't you think, given that Osama has been hunted for years, that the US government have been critisized for years about this whole shennanigan, that the whole war in afghanistan was supposedly based on his whereabouts, that he was supposedly such a significant character and creative force in the september 11th plots, that he has supposedly been planning more terrorist attacks.... don't you think given these circumstances that the US actually had an interest in preserving Osama's life? That they actually had an OBLIGATION to assuage the concerns of their citizens....this isn't the first time concerns have been raised, the bad handling of the situation

Why kill Osama himself and then go around trying to piece things together with some crappy 10 second video clips you found? On the one hand we hear about how Osama was so careful, secretive that no one knows whats going with him and yet when the US gets the chance they are not even interested in him himself....what the hell is guantanamo for? presumably that place exists because there are people in the world they want to take in alive....question: why didn't they want Osama.

You don't get to knowingly and blatantly commit murder, destroy evidence and give misleading information to a judge/jury and get away with it.....and yet all people want is proof of Osamas existance and death as it has been described by the Americans. Imagine a court that would let you get away with murder provided you simply gave them the evidence.......I do not i believe i ask for too much.
His wife and children aren't credible witnesses?
Everybody else was killed - with pictures.
Lack of murder weapons? You mean what the navy seals would've had? Why would that prove anything.


Listen to yourself.
If they had kept OBL alive - what would they do with him? Take him to trial? You're mentioning the court of law, but any trial that would've taken place wouldn't have been fair or just. OBL would have clearly been found as guilty.
What next? Is he executed? How? Who would execute him? Would the execution have been shown on television? Then where would they bury his body? Normal American civilians celebrated his death, many happy that he died - if they buried him in America it's very likely that there would have been some who would've visited his place of rest, and done whatever they like, burn it, dig him up etc. That's a real possibility. If not, then Al-Qaeda would probably be enraged that their leader's body was in American soil and would've taken revenge in the worst of ways. If they didn't bury in America - then where would they have buried him? Saudi Arabia rejected his body when America gave them the chance, but even if we take the hypothetical situation that Saudi Arabia DID take this body after he had been executed then surely it would be even worse to take the man to trial, find him guilty, kill him, then fly him back to Saudi Arabia. That would be absolutely ridiculous. But if America had taken OBL alive, then what other alternatives could they do?

If they didn't kill him and kept him alive - the cost of security and keeping him alive, and making sure he had basic civil rights - at the expense of American tax-payers would have caused an outrage, the costs of security alone would be too much. Also surely it would give Al-Qaeda incentive to try and get him out of jail? Or get their revenge?

You're not thinking practically.
Yes there are a person's human rights to be observed, and there are rules in the court of law. But there are always exceptional circumstances and OBL would've certainly been one of the most exceptional circumstances.
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the realist
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#2506
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#2506
(Original post by Lizzzle)
The video's aren't evidence of him being dead no.

The video's are evidence that the compound was indeed his, he did actually live there. He was planning some new attacks, and he lived in squalor.

Given the fact that the Navy Seals busted into that same compound in which he was living in and pretty much killed everyone inside - can be seen as evidence that he's dead. It's not enough evidence granted but it's still there.

His wife and daughter being an eye-witness, and them saying that he's died. Plus Al-Qaeda saying that he's died, plus all of the world's leaders saying that he's died. Plus many extremists mourning his death on the streets all over the world - is proof that he's died.

If he wasn't dead, then as easy as it was for those to film him, surely they can film him being alive and release a video of him saying this too?

You say its "too convenient" and it doesnt "do enough to silence the critics" and you're still "awaiting real evidence" - presumably you want to see the man's dead body - you're saying all of this but offering no alternative.
If he isn't dead, despite everyone who knew him saying he died, plus the world's leaders putting their political careers on the line by also saying he's dead - then how did the CIA get this evidence? Where is he now? Who was inside that compound?

You're trying to be too analytical and critical when you don't need to be, you're being excessive and trying to put holes in everything. The man is dead, accept it and move on.
So wait, NO ONE new where Osama was until the Americans find him, kill him and destroy his body.....then all of a sudden they are experts and know that Osama is dead?? When someone dies in UK the relatives usually like to see the body before they even believe they are dead...

It didn't matter what these people thought before he was dead, but now hes dead it matters? I think you'd be surprised how many people that are "confirming" things and putting "their careers on the line" are getting fed info straight from the US gov just like we are. Funny These people weren't risking there career looking for Osama, making guesses as to or actually finding his whereabouts, they didn't have a clue then, but now Osamas dead and theres no body they all seem to know that hes dead....hmmmm
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Lizzzle
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#2507
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#2507
(Original post by the realist)
So wait, NO ONE new where Osama was until the Americans find him, kill him and destroy his body.....then all of a sudden they are experts and know that Osama is dead?? When someone dies in UK the relatives usually like to see the body before they even believe they are dead...

It didn't matter what these people thought before he was dead, but now hes dead it matters? I think you'd be surprised how many people that are "confirming" things and putting "their careers on the line" are getting fed info straight from the US gov just like we are. Funny These people weren't risking there career looking for Osama, making guesses as to or actually finding his whereabouts, they didn't have a clue then, but now Osamas dead and theres no body they all seem to know that hes dead....hmmmm
How clear do I have to make this.

His wife
And daughter
Saw him being killed
Identified his body
Admitted that he was dead.
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the realist
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#2508
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#2508
(Original post by Lizzzle)
His wife and children aren't credible witnesses?
Everybody else was killed - with pictures.
Lack of murder weapons? You mean what the navy seals would've had? Why would that prove anything.


Listen to yourself.
If they had kept OBL alive - what would they do with him? Take him to trial? You're mentioning the court of law, but any trial that would've taken place wouldn't have been fair or just. OBL would have clearly been found as guilty.
What next? Is he executed? How? Who would execute him? Would the execution have been shown on television? Then where would they bury his body? Normal American civilians celebrated his death, many happy that he died - if they buried him in America it's very likely that there would have been some who would've visited his place of rest, and done whatever they like, burn it, dig him up etc. That's a real possibility. If not, then Al-Qaeda would probably be enraged that their leader's body was in American soil and would've taken revenge in the worst of ways. If they didn't bury in America - then where would they have buried him? Saudi Arabia rejected his body when America gave them the chance, but even if we take the hypothetical situation that Saudi Arabia DID take this body after he had been executed then surely it would be even worse to take the man to trial, find him guilty, kill him, then fly him back to Saudi Arabia. That would be absolutely ridiculous. But if America had taken OBL alive, then what other alternatives could they do?

If they didn't kill him and kept him alive - the cost of security and keeping him alive, and making sure he had basic civil rights - at the expense of American tax-payers would have caused an outrage, the costs of security alone would be too much. Also surely it would give Al-Qaeda incentive to try and get him out of jail? Or get their revenge?

You're not thinking practically.
Yes there are a person's human rights to be observed, and there are rules in the court of law. But there are always exceptional circumstances and OBL would've certainly been one of the most exceptional circumstances.
You aren't thinking practically....If it's practical to start a war costing billions of pounds to sacrifice civilian and soldiers lives looking for him, then keeping osama bin ladin alive for 5 minutes or providing his body as evidence is actually no great feat....

and you are naive if you think Osamas death would incite more terror then the average civilian death in iraq, afghanistan or palestine
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Dumb Economist
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#2509
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#2509
(Original post by Lizzzle)
How clear do I have to make this.

His wife
And daughter
Saw him being killed
Identified his body
Admitted that he was dead.
How do you know it is his wife? Same thing goes with daughter. While every one in PAK, the talebans and Al -Qeada are all under US payroll. Including the Republicans who had previous knowledge (10 yrs old) have decided to support Democratic President.
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Lizzzle
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#2510
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#2510
(Original post by the realist)
You aren't thinking practically....If it's practical to start a war costing billions of pounds to sacrifice civilian and soldiers lives looking for him, then keeping osama bin ladin alive for 5 minutes or providing his body as evidence is actually no great feat....

and you are naive if you think Osamas death would incite more terror then the average civilian death in iraq, afghanistan or palestine
I didn't even talk about the war in Afghanistan, I didn't agree with it then, I don't agree with it now.
This isn't about the war in Afghanistan or any war.
This is about OBL being dead.
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Lizzzle
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#2511
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#2511
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
How do you know it is his wife? Same thing goes with daughter. While every one in PAK, the talebans and Al -Qeada are all under US payroll. Including the Republicans who had previous knowledge (10 yrs old) have decided to support Democratic President.
They were in the house at the time,
his wife was shot/injured during the raid
and she was taken in by CIA.
OBL had many wives but the one who was there was his "favourite" and the youngest, 27 or 28 I believe.
I don't see who else it could have been, you could say it was a random woman - but I very much doubt that just a random woman with no affiliation to OBL would be allowed to be in that compound at night and seemingly spend the night with OBL.
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Dumb Economist
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#2512
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#2512
(Original post by Lizzzle)
They were in the house at the time,
his wife was shot/injured during the raid
and she was taken in by CIA.
OBL had many wives but the one who was there was his "favourite" and the youngest, 27 or 28 I believe.
I don't see who else it could have been, you could say it was a random woman - but I very much doubt that just a random woman with no affiliation to OBL would be allowed to be in that compound at night and seemingly spend the night with OBL.
Assuming it was OBL


I am just winding up. Too many variables clearly imply that anyone cannot pull this as a hoax.
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the realist
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#2513
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#2513
(Original post by Lizzzle)
I didn't even talk about the war in Afghanistan, I didn't agree with it then, I don't agree with it now.
This isn't about the war in Afghanistan or any war.
This is about OBL being dead.
"errm duuurh whats this got to do with 911 and war in afghanistan?!"

Yes it is relevant, now please explain why it's acceptable for US government to spend billions of taxpayer money finding someone that they care not to provide conclusive evidence is dead.

So it is very relevant, if Osama was just some pakistani no one would give a damn about him, the US kills pakistanis with predator drones all the time and we don't give a damn. So obviously.....the reason for the hype is due to 911, war in afghanistan and the 10 years it's taken to get to him otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this.

It is precisely because of these wars, that the people are owed a better explanation and more evidence. DURRRRRH
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Dekota-XS
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#2514
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#2514
Without evidence, you cannot claim the world's most wanted man dead. That's the bottom line, anything on top of that is opinions and speculations.
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Dumb Economist
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#2515
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#2515
(Original post by Dekota-XS)
Without evidence, you cannot claim the world's most wanted man dead. That's the bottom line, anything on top of that is opinions and speculations.
I agree - Yes Elvis Priestley is alive.
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Lizzzle
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#2516
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#2516
(Original post by the realist)
"errm duuurh whats this got to do with 911 and war in afghanistan?!"

Yes it is relevant, now please explain why it's acceptable for US government to spend billions of taxpayer money finding someone that they care not to provide conclusive evidence is dead.

So it is very relevant, if Osama was just some pakistani no one would give a damn about him, the US kills pakistanis with predator drones all the time and we don't give a damn. So obviously.....the reason for the hype is due to 911, war in afghanistan and the 10 years it's taken to get to him otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this.

It is precisely because of these wars, that the people are owed a better explanation and more evidence. DURRRRRH
:facepalm2:

I'm not arguing about the war.

When it comes to the war, I would agree that it's a ridiculous amount of tax-payer money thats spent with seemingly no end.
It was started by a different American administration - the current administration has indicated that they were going to start pulling soldiers out of Afghanistan - even before OBL's death, but as a result the speed at which it pulls out will probably increase.

But this isn't about the war, i'm not arguing about the war.
I'm saying that OBL is dead, what America did with his body in the aftermath - I honestly couldn't care about.
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the realist
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#2517
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#2517
(Original post by Lizzzle)
They were in the house at the time,
his wife was shot/injured during the raid
and she was taken in by CIA.
OBL had many wives but the one who was there was his "favourite" and the youngest, 27 or 28 I believe.
I don't see who else it could have been, you could say it was a random woman - but I very much doubt that just a random woman with no affiliation to OBL would be allowed to be in that compound at night and seemingly spend the night with OBL.
erm yeh, in a country where consequenceless murder and assasination(for the US and pkstan gov) is the dish of the day, everyday, do we have to believe every unsubstantiated account of events....?

Well lets seem them, let them come over here and give their story, and hopefully they can provide us more real evidence than the american government of Osama's identity. And by that i mean more than spoken testitmony.
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Lizzzle
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#2518
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#2518
(Original post by Dumb Economist)
Assuming it was OBL


I am just winding up. Too many variables clearly imply that anyone cannot pull this as a hoax.

Lol I figured you were with the face
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the realist
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#2519
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#2519
(Original post by Lizzzle)
:facepalm2:

I'm not arguing about the war.

When it comes to the war, I would agree that it's a ridiculous amount of tax-payer money thats spent with seemingly no end.
It was started by a different American administration - the current administration has indicated that they were going to start pulling soldiers out of Afghanistan - even before OBL's death, but as a result the speed at which it pulls out will probably increase.

But this isn't about the war, i'm not arguing about the war.
I'm saying that OBL is dead, what America did with his body in the aftermath - I honestly couldn't care about.
Neither do i care what ultimately becomes of Osamas body provided someone cares to document the proof. Osamas body could be at the bottom of the ocean right now just like you and the US like it, all they had to do was keep him about for a while....and they didn't! and the fact you agree puts you at odds with truth finders world-wide....

The body is always evidence number 1.
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Lizzzle
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#2520
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#2520
(Original post by the realist)
Neither do i care what ultimately becomes of Osamas body provided someone cares to document the proof. Osamas body could be at the bottom of the ocean right now just like you and the US like it, all they had to do was keep him about for a while....and they didn't! and the fact you agree puts you at odds with truth finders world-wide....

The body is always evidence number 1.
I wonder if you wear aluminium foil hats because "they can hear you otherwise"
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