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    (Original post by profoflife)
    Whilst i agree that in an ideal world all education should be free (which lets face it is a little unrelastic given the cost, number of people involved, current economic climate etc) where do you suggest the money comes from?

    £17m is hardly going to pay for it.....the olympics may cost a few billion but will return many more billion as well as regenerating communities and facilities over a very short space of time...

    So, where do you propse the money comes from to A) pay for all education, and B) pay for the countries trillions of pounds of debt?
    The country has less than 1 trillion of debt.

    The argument you made about the olympics could be used for education. It will return many more billions than you put in. I believe it is £2.60 for everyone £1 you put in.

    The UCU have put forward the idea that if you increased corporation taxes by 3% which would still leave them lower than the OECD average you could pay for all universities with no tuition fees. IT IS BUSINESSES THAT GET THE MAJOR BENEFITS FROM UNIVERSITIES. They get the skilled work force at no cost to them, it used to be that they sent their employees on training courses, then this cost was switched to the state and now to the individual. Business should pay they get all the benifits.
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    the stat is total rubbish....no way that 3 quarters of students are working whilst at uni...if so, then either they have no work to do or this stat includes working on holidays and illegal work...
    It does include work during the holidays obviously. I for example earnt £1500 over the summer which has helped me live whilst at university therefore paying NI for example. However i believe that there was another stat that said about 50-60% worked during uni as well although obviously i can't find the main page so can't show you that.
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    I walked into Parliament Square calmly, I walked out of Parliament Square calmly. It was a minority of idiots who provoked the police who then acted violently in response and the whole thing escalated. But the majority of us there were just trying to get out of the way.

    The people who caused the damage probably weren't even students.

    And yeah, we failed, but at least we tried. It's not our fault we got overshadowed by a few violent idiots and some royal horse getting her car attacked.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    The country has less than 1 trillion of debt.

    The argument you made about the olympics could be used for education. It will return many more billions than you put in. I believe it is £2.60 for everyone £1 you put in.

    The UCU have put forward the idea that if you increased corporation taxes by 3% which would still leave them lower than the OECD average you could pay for all universities with no tuition fees. IT IS BUSINESSES THAT GET THE MAJOR BENEFITS FROM UNIVERSITIES. They get the skilled work force at no cost to them, it used to be that they sent their employees on training courses, then this cost was switched to the state and now to the individual. Business should pay they get all the benifits.
    Sorry...but you are totally deluded....going to university is in the individual's interest with a benefit to themselves and society...i agree that businesses as well as the state should invest in students, which they do...but to think the fate of the entire world sits on the shoulders of students is quite absurd.

    The debt, if you include all debt, not just what is owed to BOE...is way over a trillion...

    Raising corporation tax will result in businesses relocating outside the UK, simple as that...take it from me.

    I agree more can be done by businesses but the issue is more than just students paying for their degrees. In addition, once you've gone through the process, oaying back the loan is not the biggest financial burden you will have when you graduate. Students should see at as an investment in their future...its a little arrogant to say its in the countries interest for it to be free.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    :five:

    Tbh, I really can't people people thought protesting would change their minds. Absolutely pathetic.
    Not really.

    Firstly it's a democratic right so if you don't want democracy kindly f*** off somewhere else.

    Secondly it did achieve a lot. They wanted to stop the plans and ultimately they failed but originally it was backed by over a 2/3rds majority and after the protests the majority was only 21, 323 votes to 302. I think that's a great example of democracy in action.
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    (Original post by Monkeyuncle)
    Hope your happy Thatcher, Now the Tories may have destroyed MY Future, Yes I may be in year 9 but this is something that may continue into when I am going to university IF I manage to go because of the money. This is why when I am old enough to vote I will NEVER vote tory for what has just happened and for many reasons you would know yourself. Tories have destroyed many bright futures for students, And will continue to do if you are ever voted again. I hope the tories happy and I hope that the tories will never be voted again..
    I'm sorry but that fails on so many levels.
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    Even 50-60% is extremely high i would suggest. There were never 50% of students working when i was a student, (only a few years ago). I also worked in every holiday i had which was a life saver....but i had far too much work to work durung the semester...with an average of 20 hours of lectures a week for the first 2 years is was impossible to work.

    Believe me i sympathise with the whole situation as ive been there and lived it myself...but expecting it all to be free is unrealistic.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    Sometimes things are not what they seem, never underestimate the power or people. Sooner or later damage wont just be inflicted on buildings etc. There are more of us than there are them
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    (Original post by MazzyStar03)
    Sometimes things are not what they seem, never underestimate the power or people. Sooner or later damage wont just be inflicted on buildings etc. There are more of us than there are them
    What is that supposed to mean??? Who is "us" and who is "them"???

    Im a tax payer, i was a student and i graduated with debt....but i agree that in the grand scheme of things....i.e. the preservation of the UK as a successful and prosperous country for EVERYONE to live in, not just students, that raising the fees, which is among a whole raft of cuts, is the right thing to do for the interest fo the WHOLE COUNTRY and its future.

    It was inevitable and to be honest, i think it has been done in a very fair way and could have been a lot harsher.

    I dont mean to patronise but when the students get older, they will understand more about the bigger picture and how all things the govnerment are responsible for are connected and not mutually exclusive.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    The country has less than 1 trillion of debt.

    The argument you made about the olympics could be used for education. It will return many more billions than you put in. I believe it is £2.60 for everyone £1 you put in.

    The UCU have put forward the idea that if you increased corporation taxes by 3% which would still leave them lower than the OECD average you could pay for all universities with no tuition fees. IT IS BUSINESSES THAT GET THE MAJOR BENEFITS FROM UNIVERSITIES. They get the skilled work force at no cost to them, it used to be that they sent their employees on training courses, then this cost was switched to the state and now to the individual. Business should pay they get all the benifits.
    The current structual deficit is £1.4 trillion and rising:

    Budget 2010: growth and borrowing figures 'too optimistic'
    Britain's national debt will rise to a record £1.4 trillion even after Alistair Darling promised to reduce his borrowing plans.
    By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent 4:14PM GMT 24 Mar 2010
    The Chancellor has also been warned that the new borrowing plans he set out in the Budget are based on “over-optimistic” assumptions of a strong economic recovery.

    The Treasury is spending much more than it raises in tax each year, forcing ministers to borrow by selling Government bonds.

    Mr Darling last year set out plans to borrow £178 billion this year and £175 billion in 2010/11. The scale of those deficits has left investors worried about Britain’s ability to pay off its debts and led to comparisons with Greece, which recently faced a financial crisis because of a comparable government deficit.

    But, even after reducing his planned borrowing, those deficits are still equal to more than 11 per cent of the entire UK economy.

    Ref: Telegrap newspaper

    Britain has the largest structual deficit in Europe, the OECD says that's Britain's structual Deficit will climb to 13.9% of GDP this year. To put this in context, Greece's is expected to be 9.7% and Spain 8.5%.

    Many studies have shown that raising taxes on business during an economic crisis will make many leave for tax friendlier countries, increase unemployment, add significantly to the structual deficit. The country's economy would be destroyed.

    Ref: Economics Essays

    Your idea is unworkable and economic suicide.
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    (Original post by MazzyStar03)
    Sometimes things are not what they seem, never underestimate the power or people. Sooner or later damage wont just be inflicted on buildings etc. There are more of us than there are them
    :confused:Is sounds like a threat? Who or what are you planning to damage or hurt?
    I think we should be told!!
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    The current structual deficit is £1.4 trillion and rising:

    Budget 2010: growth and borrowing figures 'too optimistic'
    Britain's national debt will rise to a record £1.4 trillion even after Alistair Darling promised to reduce his borrowing plans.
    By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent 4:14PM GMT 24 Mar 2010
    The Chancellor has also been warned that the new borrowing plans he set out in the Budget are based on “over-optimistic” assumptions of a strong economic recovery.

    The Treasury is spending much more than it raises in tax each year, forcing ministers to borrow by selling Government bonds.

    Mr Darling last year set out plans to borrow £178 billion this year and £175 billion in 2010/11. The scale of those deficits has left investors worried about Britain’s ability to pay off its debts and led to comparisons with Greece, which recently faced a financial crisis because of a comparable government deficit.

    But, even after reducing his planned borrowing, those deficits are still equal to more than 11 per cent of the entire UK economy.

    Ref: Telegrap newspaper

    Britain has the largest structual deficit in Europe, the OECD says that's Britain's structual Deficit will climb to 13.9% of GDP this year. To put this in context, Greece's is expected to be 9.7% and Spain 8.5%.

    Many studies have shown that raising taxes on business during an economic crisis will make many leave for tax friendlier countries, increase unemployment, add significantly to the structual deficit. The country's economy would be destroyed.

    Ref: Economics Essays

    Your idea is unworkable and economic suicide.
    http://www.debtbombshell.com/

    that tells you how much debt we have and it is less than 1 Billion

    Yes i understand all of the economics thank you. Lots of studies have also shown that cutting dramatically in a time of economic uncertainty is stupidity but i guess we will have to disagree on that.

    Are you aware that we have a lower than average debt to GDP ratio than during the last 300 years?? That yes we have a debt of roughly 70% of GDP but the Japanese for example the second biggest economy in the world has 260%. Please question this narrative that the government is giving. There is not such thing as objective truth.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    http://www.debtbombshell.com/

    that tells you how much debt we have and it is less than 1 Billion

    Yes i understand all of the economics thank you. Lots of studies have also shown that cutting dramatically in a time of economic uncertainty is stupidity but i guess we will have to disagree on that.

    Are you aware that we have a lower than average debt to GDP ratio than during the last 300 years?? That yes we have a debt of roughly 70% of GDP but the Japanese for example the second biggest economy in the world has 260%. Please question this narrative that the government is giving. There is not such thing as objective truth.
    Once again your stats are garbage....and i think you mean Trillion, not Billion...

    Japan is not the second biggest economy!!!! what measure of "economy" are you using??

    The link you have is a propagnda link, not an offical independant review.

    What evidence is there of spending your way out of debt is a good solution? It is totally deluded to think so. Think about it.....if you had £10,000 on your credit card, would you pay it off by borrowing more money and increasing your expenses...or would you reduce your expenses?

    Its quite simple when you think about it.....its good you dont manage a business!
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    What is that supposed to mean??? Who is "us" and who is "them"???

    Im a tax payer, i was a student and i graduated with debt....but i agree that in the grand scheme of things....i.e. the preservation of the UK as a successful and prosperous country for EVERYONE to live in, not just students, that raising the fees, which is among a whole raft of cuts, is the right thing to do for the interest fo the WHOLE COUNTRY and its future.

    It was inevitable and to be honest, i think it has been done in a very fair way and could have been a lot harsher.

    I dont mean to patronise but when the students get older, they will understand more about the bigger picture and how all things the govnerment are responsible for are connected and not mutually exclusive.
    But us is students and them are the government etc. If you were a student who was going to go to university this year are you telling me you would feel the same way as you do now? Now that the fees are raised us students try and get jobs oh wait there arent any. In my opinion I find it all a bit ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    :confused:Is sounds like a threat? Who or what are you planning to damage or hurt?
    I think we should be told!!
    oh god no! please do not take it in that way. Its just I saw the damage done and I think us students are going to get angrier which will cause more damage. Please I do not mean it in any away a threat!!!
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    (Original post by MazzyStar03)
    But us is students and them are the government etc. If you were a student who was going to go to university this year are you telling me you would feel the same way as you do now? Now that the fees are raised us students try and get jobs oh wait there arent any. In my opinion I find it all a bit ridiculous.
    Yes, i would agree with it. I dont expect you to understand now as you can only see what is right in front of you....but when you graduate and start working, and pay off your debt, and start earning reasonable money, you will reaslie that it was the right thing to do.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    Your username combined with your comment are awfully ironic.

    The Poll Tax riots didn't stop the bill being passed, but its repercussions killed off Thatcherism - thank God.
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    oh stfu
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    Once again your stats are garbage....and i think you mean Trillion, not Billion...

    Japan is not the second biggest economy!!!! what measure of "economy" are you using??

    The link you have is a propagnda link, not an offical independant review.

    What evidence is there of spending your way out of debt is a good solution? It is totally deluded to think so. Think about it.....if you had £10,000 on your credit card, would you pay it off by borrowing more money and increasing your expenses...or would you reduce your expenses?

    Its quite simple when you think about it.....its good you dont manage a business!
    hahaha states do not work like businesses. Yes i apologize i did mean trillion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._%28nominal%29

    GDP is the measure of the size of an economy. Obviously on this website you ignore the EU as it is not a country.

    Are you aware of the work of Keynes?????????????????????????? Are you aware of what the the US government at doing at the moment, one hint they are not cutting like us.

    i'm sorry but your argument is based around a lot of ignorance of how a state works and how an economy works. I really can't be bothered to continue arguing this but judging by your response to the suggestion of spending your way out of debt it demonstrates you need to do some more reading, perhaps look at the wikipedia article on Keynes.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    Yes, they're really stronger seeing as their majority has been quartered. Have fun watching the Coalition split.
 
 
 
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