Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by profoflife)
    What you say here makes no sense - a salary of 21K is sufficient for you to be able to affrod the minute repayment every month on your loan. By the time you are earning 21K (many students will get jobs paying better, others may have to wait a couple of years) you will have far bigger monthly expenses....like rent, council tax, petrol / travel expenses, even food will be costing you more each month than your student loan!
    That's right.

    That's my point.

    Why should students be burdened with additional debt?

    Let's take a quick look at some figures!

    RENT (1 BED. FLAT) £350PCM
    C.TAX AVR. EST. £1000 p.a. £83PCM
    PETROL / TRAVEL £166 Oyster month all zones
    FOOD £120pw £480

    With these figures alone this student will be on £58.37p a week.

    This is less than weekly Job seeker's allowance.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimme More)
    A person with rich parents (who can afford to repay the loan in full - immediately) will just laugh.
    Please define rich parents. Because a student coming out of uni with lets say.. £60K (that's what I think me and dad worked out mine to be before the increase - which I'll be paying for a 4 year course).. how on earth could parents pay that off immediately unless they were both earning around £150K+ each and had no other children to worry about. Seriously, just because someone has parents earning a decent wage doesn't mean their parents will pay off their debt.

    (Original post by Gimme More)
    The one thing I pity the most about you people is - on account of your general illogical biases - your inability to discern fact from fiction. Out of say 80 million British residents, how many are Conservative Party Members?
    Don't bring Conservative Party Members figures into this because that is irrelevant to it. This here will prove it:
    1950 - 2007
    Conservative - 3 million - 250,000
    Labour - 1 million - 166,000
    This would suggest that due to numbers significantly dropping in both parties there is a general lack of people signing up to parties regardless of the ideologies. Actively joining a party numbers have declined for other reasons from they don't agree with the party.
    You don't have to be a member of a political party to:
    - believe in/agree with what they say
    - vote for them
    - support them
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Lts be honest, if Labour had introduced this exact same policy then everyone would have wrung their hands and said things like "tough but fair", and "well the money has to come from somewhere", and "this is actually quite a progressive policy", and no-one would have rioted, although the Daily Mail would have attacked it as a leftie plot.

    But because its the Tories that introduced it, then the Daily Mail love it and other (equally stupid) people say "This policy must be a rightwing plot, it's pure EVIL and designed to deny the working classes an education, lets all riot".
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by winter_mute)
    Two things:

    I'm sure you;re aware of all the Graducate medical students who after 2012 will have to pay anywhere between £9,000 for a 4 year course and £36,000 for a 5 year course, with no option of loans (and that's all contingent on the NHS keeping up the levels of funding for training), which given that every single staff member is being given a compulsory pay freeze wage reduction against inflation I doubt they'll be able to.

    2. Surely taxes would only be theft if the tax payer did not receive or have the ability to recieve the goods or services it was earmarked for at the end of it.
    Graduate medical students are eligible for student loans from student finance England, and shall continue to be, upfront fees shall remain at £0. The fifth year may not be covered by the NHS in its entirety, but that does not mean they are not eligible for the standard student loans.

    As for taxes, is it theft if a thief comes into your house, steals your TV and leaves behind a guitar? Or steals your wardrobe and leaves a bookcase? Yes, it still is, just because government gives you something back that you may not need or want does not mean that the act of tax is not theft.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by simontinsley)
    Graduate medical students are eligible for student loans from student finance England, and shall continue to be, upfront fees shall remain at £0. The fifth year may not be covered by the NHS in its entirety, but that does not mean they are not eligible for the standard student loans.

    As for taxes, is it theft if a thief comes into your house, steals your TV and leaves behind a guitar? Or steals your wardrobe and leaves a bookcase? Yes, it still is, just because government gives you something back that you may not need or want does not mean that the act of tax is not theft.
    Your first point is absolute horse****. Students are able to get maintainance loans ONLY (with no grants funding either) and have to pay £9,000 themselves (up front) for the first year of a 4 year course, with NHS funding for the rest.

    For a 5 year course they NHS will only fund the the last year

    From http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=557 :

    "2) Funding for graduate students on standard five-year courses
    Graduate students will not be eligible to receive a tuition fee loan or maintenance grant regardless of whether or not they have previously received funding, and universities may charge them the full cost of their tuition. Fees payable to medical schools by graduate students vary widely and details are available from the schools themselves. Students may be able to apply to Student Finance England for a full, income based, maintenance loan. From year five onwards, tuition fees will be paid by the Department of Health and they will be eligible to apply for a means-tested NHS bursary, and reduced maintenance loan from the Student Finance England (equivalent to approximately half the full rate).

    3) Funding for graduate students on accelerated courses
    Graduates on accelerated (four year) courses are eligible to apply for means-tested NHS bursaries from the Department of Health in the second, third and fourth years of the course. Tuition fees are also paid during that period of the course. In their first year, graduate students on accelerated courses will be eligible to apply for student loans from Student Finance England for their maintenance."


    Get your facts straight before running off your mouth.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by winter_mute)
    Your first point is absolute horse****. Students are able to get maintainance loans ONLY (with no grants funding either) and have to pay £9,000 themselves (up front) for the first year of a 4 year course, with NHS funding for the rest.

    For a 5 year course they NHS will only fund the the last year

    From http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=557 :

    "2) Funding for graduate students on standard five-year courses
    Graduate students will not be eligible to receive a tuition fee loan or maintenance grant regardless of whether or not they have previously received funding, and universities may charge them the full cost of their tuition. Fees payable to medical schools by graduate students vary widely and details are available from the schools themselves. Students may be able to apply to Student Finance England for a full, income based, maintenance loan. From year five onwards, tuition fees will be paid by the Department of Health and they will be eligible to apply for a means-tested NHS bursary, and reduced maintenance loan from the Student Finance England (equivalent to approximately half the full rate).

    3) Funding for graduate students on accelerated courses
    Graduates on accelerated (four year) courses are eligible to apply for means-tested NHS bursaries from the Department of Health in the second, third and fourth years of the course. Tuition fees are also paid during that period of the course. In their first year, graduate students on accelerated courses will be eligible to apply for student loans from Student Finance England for their maintenance."


    Get your facts straight before running off your mouth.
    While if you read number one, on the link you posted:

    1) Students gaining admission to the standard five-year courses will be entitled to receive student loans from Student Finance England for their maintenance and tuition fees for years one to four. From year five onwards, tuition fees will be paid by the Department of Health and students will be eligible to apply for a means-tested NHS bursary, and reduced maintenance loan from Student Finance England (equivalent to approximately half the full rate).

    That is the vast majority of students, who apply onto the five year course. Graduate students are a whole different kettle of fish, both in medicine and other subjects, it is not the case that medical students generally have to pay tuition fees up front.

    Get your facts straight, I mean at least read the entirety of the link you are quoting.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by simontinsley)
    While if you read number one, on the link you posted:

    1) Students gaining admission to the standard five-year courses will be entitled to receive student loans from Student Finance England for their maintenance and tuition fees for years one to four. From year five onwards, tuition fees will be paid by the Department of Health and students will be eligible to apply for a means-tested NHS bursary, and reduced maintenance loan from Student Finance England (equivalent to approximately half the full rate).

    That is the vast majority of students, who apply onto the five year course. Graduate students are a whole different kettle of fish, both in medicine and other subjects, it is not the case that medical students generally have to pay tuition fees up front.

    Get your facts straight, I mean at least read the entirety of the link you are quoting.

    Now you're shifting the goalposts. I never mentioned normal undergrads in my original post, I was talking solely about graduates undertaking a medical undergraduate degree. That's the post you replied on and claimed they had access to tuition fee loans. It's not my fault if you didn't take the time to read my post properly (and yes I can see the spelling mistakes now). I read that link several times, and used it because it's one I know in it's entirety.

    The first point of the link deals with normal school leavers, which has no relevance to what I was saying, therefore I didn't post it.

    The whole point of GEM degrees are to enable those from the poorest backgrounds or those who didn't have access to a good level of science teach in their schools to better themselves and become doctors.

    By trebling the fees the Conservative government are shifting this completely around so only the wealthiest in our society can afford it. I consider myself so lucky to be able to pay the £9,000 for the first year of the 4 year course I'm applying to. How many other people can say that? Exactly.

    This also flies in the face of David Cameron's pledge to increase the number of front line NHS staff.

    The whole reason the NHS are funding the 3 years of an accelerated medical degree (although in all likelihood they're going to have to cut back on that too) is that this country simply needs more doctors. I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who says that Medics aren't worth the money it takes to train them.

    Edit: Also regardless of their previous education this shows that the Tory promise (and the website in your sig) that no one studying for an undergraduate degree at university is a lie. So either they're deliberately concealing the truth, or are ignorant of all the facts.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rant)
    Oxbridge doesn't = the brightest people, it = the bourgeois.

    Anyone who supports the cuts, frankly, has no soul.
    Ohhh the University of Sussex does?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    This is too tense......


    TO FRIDGE!!!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    Please define rich parents.
    Parents who can immediately pay off a £9,000 student loan - grinning along with their cackling brat.

    Don't bring Conservative Party Members figures into this because that is irrelevant to it. This here will prove it:
    1950 - 2007
    Conservative - 3 million - 250,000
    Labour - 1 million - 166,000
    This would suggest that due to numbers significantly dropping in both parties there is a general lack of people signing up to parties regardless of the ideologies. Actively joining a party numbers have declined for other reasons from they don't agree with the party.
    You don't have to be a member of a political party to:
    - believe in/agree with what they say
    - vote for them
    - support them
    True.

    But still, I stated that Conservative Party Members are a minority in this country. Is this NOT true?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by py0alb)
    Lts be honest, if Labour had introduced this exact same policy then everyone would have wrung their hands and said things like "tough but fair"
    Labour under Blair/Brown were almost as bad as the Tories, but I believe they would think twice about raising student tuition fees by 300%.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimme More)
    Parents who can immediately pay off a £9,000 student loan - grinning along with their cackling brat.



    True.

    But still, I stated that Conservative Party Members are a minority in this country. Is this NOT true?
    It is true.

    This country is Conservative with a small C. Why the hell do you think parties have deliberately shifted right in order to be electable?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ocassus)
    It is true.

    This country is Conservative with a small C. Why the hell do you think parties have deliberately shifted right in order to be electable?
    Because the demonoids who hijacked the Labour party let 10 million Slavs walk into this country.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy watching young people demonstrate against corrupt government, but at the end of the day it may be wiser to avoid promoting or undertaking acts of sedition, especially where integrity is at stake.

    A righteous conscience cannot sit comfortably with the idea of lawless rebellion, and as much as I believe these Satanic abusers who hide behind weapons and brutal law enforcement officials, deserve to be humiliated with physical trauma, I'm acutely aware of the poison they're spreading by cajoling the lawful and innocent to become enraged, bitter, angry and violent.

    If I were to be made certain that such reactions could be forgiven by those with the power to condemn souls, then perhaps I would not hesitate to support violent protest.

    Until that happens, I believe the righteous mind must maintain discipline and avoid deteriorating into something objectionable to those with genuine authority.

    Edit:

    The righteous must always prevent their enemy from claiming parity in terms of political sympathies (if such a thing were possible).

    For example. If one doesn't consider violence to be a good solution to a problem, on account ONLY of its constituting a form of rebellion, and states as much while also asking for clarity on this issue from a judicial authority, this would not amount to surrender of any kind. It merely serves as a point of mitigation, were a detractor to attempt to accuse the agent in question of having insubordinate tendencies.

    Having consulted the judicial body, the agent is now free to prosecute sanctioned actions without self-reproach.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimme More)
    ...
    Ooh the immigration card. Did it ever strike you that immigration is a good thing for the economy? Furthermore, ALL parties support immigration to an extent except the bnp, the conservatives in practice have no real difference in immigration policy. Why? Because that is public opinion, they wouldn't do it if it didn't give them a boost in the polls, parties are not shaped by ideology alone, and if they are they will never ever see s majority government (BNP). This country is and always has been conservative with a small c. Students and the working class are a minority compared to the vast size of middle England. This policy will actually hit middle England the hardest anyway, so what are you complaining about?

    Your posts also seem laced with jealousy; 'cackling brats' for example. What? Where are these cackling brats? Who are they? You are just lumping a group of people, the majority of which who have worked to get where they are, sticking a label onto them and attacking them because it is easy. Two can play at that game so the media is doing the exact same back at you, it's a war of generalised stereotypes and assumptions.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Ooh the immigration card. Did it ever strike you that immigration is a good thing for the economy? Furthermore, ALL parties support immigration to an extent except the bnp, the conservatives in practice have no real difference in immigration policy. Why? Because that is public opinion, they wouldn't do it if it didn't give them a boost in the polls, parties are not shaped by ideology alone, and if they are they will never ever see s majority government (BNP). This country is and always has been conservative with a small c. Students and the working class are a minority compared to the vast size of middle England. This policy will actually hit middle England the hardest anyway, so what are you complaining about?

    Your posts also seem laced with jealousy; 'cackling brats' for example. What? Where are these cackling brats? Who are they? You are just lumping a group of people, the majority of which who have worked to get where they are, sticking a label onto them and attacking them because it is easy. Two can play at that game so the media is doing the exact same back at you, it's a war of generalised stereotypes and assumptions.
    Please define (since there is no actual one) what is "Working class" and what is "Middle England"?

    What if some students are Middle England??

    The middle aged class divide language is no longer valid in the UK...you need to be more specific about what group of people you are referring to please.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You're delusional.

    The only thing Conservatives (and their counterparts) wish to conserve is unnatural blood.

    This is why 10 million Slavs have been allowed to walk into this country unhindered, and why the present government is redistributing resources (in order to help this new blood settle in).

    Ooh the immigration card. Did it ever strike you that immigration is a good thing for the economy? Furthermore, ALL parties support immigration to an extent except the bnp, the conservatives in practice have no real difference in immigration policy. Why? Because that is public opinion, they wouldn't do it if it didn't give them a boost in the polls, parties are not shaped by ideology alone, and if they are they will never ever see s majority government (BNP). This country is and always has been conservative with a small c. Students and the working class are a minority compared to the vast size of middle England. This policy will actually hit middle England the hardest anyway, so what are you complaining about?

    Your posts also seem laced with jealousy; 'cackling brats' for example. What? Where are these cackling brats? Who are they? You are just lumping a group of people, the majority of which who have worked to get where they are, sticking a label onto them and attacking them because it is easy. Two can play at that game so the media is doing the exact same back at you, it's a war of generalised stereotypes and assumptions.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimme More)
    That's right.

    That's my point.

    Why should students be burdened with additional debt?

    Let's take a quick look at some figures!

    RENT (1 BED. FLAT) £350PCM
    C.TAX AVR. EST. £1000 p.a. £83PCM
    PETROL / TRAVEL £166 Oyster month all zones
    FOOD £120pw £480

    With these figures alone this student will be on £58.37p a week.

    This is less than weekly Job seeker's allowance.
    Well then lower job seeker's allowance! Slightly kidding but maybe if you're earning 21k you can't afford to live in a £350 pcm flat, I know that's pretty cheap but there's a lot cheaper out there if you're willing to share, maybe not in London or big cities!
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimme More)
    ...
    Because I have a different opinion to you I am delusional?

    One moment I am going to go fetch my tinfoil hat, all this immigration conspiracy is something new on tsr. Tories are by ideology AGAINST immigration hence the name conservative, but they are also a party of pragmatics under Cameron so he has to display a level of compassion for immigrants. And why not? A fully qualified Palestinian doctor is so so much more valuable to a student studying 'golf stories'.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by profoflife)
    ...
    The working class really shouldn't be called the working class anymore. The middle class tends to be the middle aged, conservative small c, stable job. Etcetera, it's hard to really draw a line on class though. But really only the middle class should be rightfully upset with this. But then they are the bulk of the conservative voting base, and support for the tuition fee rises are quite high, just not voiced. The people who turned up at the student protests were a tiny minority, and the ones who caused violence are an even smaller minority of a minority.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.