Ireland. british or irish? Watch

milkytea
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#241
Report 7 years ago
#241
(Original post by L i b)
The Good Friday Agreement represents a vindication of those who oppose violent Republicanism and who suggest that the UK state is somehow illegitimate by Irish nationalist standards. The people of Ireland don't back them, accept that the United Kingdom exists and believe that Irish unification can only occur on the basis of a majority vote of the people of Northern Ireland.



Really? Did the Tories who fought for Confederate Ireland against Cromwell not understand the sensibilities of Irish history? Or those who opposed the deposing of James II/VII? Or in the modern day, the likes of Lord Trimble, who has won the Nobel Peace Prize for his role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland?

I am proudly anti-Nationalist - and believe it or not, that applies to the equally nationalistic orange-tinged bunch to the north as much as anyone else.
I agree with this. I am half-Irish and was formerly a nationalist but I have now changed my ways. My personal view is that the world would be much better off if we could put the idea of nationality well and truly behind us and embrace a global, humanitarian attitude. Mutual international co-operation benefits everyone, whether that is with regard to the EU, the UN, or the UK.
0
quote
reply
P1234R
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#242
Report 7 years ago
#242
Just seen this thread, not reading through 13 pages but anyway...

The way I see it: I am from the island of Ireland so I am Irish. I am also from the United Kingdom so I am United Kindomish, which sounds stupid so I'd say British even though we're not actually part of Britain. I'd usually call myself Northern Irish because it's more specific, in the same way as someone from Scotland would usually rather be known as Scottish than British.
0
quote
reply
StarsAreFixed
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#243
Report 7 years ago
#243
(Original post by Phonicschick)
You seriously must have nothing to do if your checking online what college I attend. By the way it's the best one in Cork and basically a route to uni if you do not want to repeat your exams so gloat in the mirror to yourself. yes studied Irish history, It's called the leaving certificate by the way, you know the more advanced version of the A-levels??

Technically A-Levels are more advanced, since they are more indepth as opposed to the Leaving's system of more subjects, less indepth. Your crappy point is moot anyway, since Lib would have done Scottish Highers.

I would not call Leaving Cert history a thorough grounding in Irish history by any means. For a start, it starts in 1860 and ends before the Troubles. There IS an earlier course but very few schools do it. I have studied four years of Irish history in Trinity- 500- 2003ish, I can tell you there are massive important gaps in Irish history taught in schools in general as well as the Leaving. They need to focus less on Hitler and Stalin- overkill. Lib has a great understanding of Irish history, he just has a different slant to it. No need to be downright abusive to someone of a different opinion.
2
quote
reply
Teofilo
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#244
Report 7 years ago
#244
(Original post by L i b)
The Good Friday Agreement represents a vindication of those who oppose violent Republicanism and who suggest that the UK state is somehow illegitimate by Irish nationalist standards. The people of Ireland don't back them, accept that the United Kingdom exists and believe that Irish unification can only occur on the basis of a majority vote of the people of Northern Ireland.



Really? Did the Tories who fought for Confederate Ireland against Cromwell not understand the sensibilities of Irish history? Or those who opposed the deposing of James II/VII? Or in the modern day, the likes of Lord Trimble, who has won the Nobel Peace Prize for his role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland?

I am proudly anti-Nationalist - and believe it or not, that applies to the equally nationalistic orange-tinged bunch to the north as much as anyone else.
Sorry, totally missed this.

With regards to the Good Friday agreement it certainly represented a clear recognition on the part of the vast majority of the Provisional Republican movement that the campaign of violence was utterly futile and ultimately self-defeating; it suggests nothing about the legitimacy or otherwise of the demands of Irish nationalists so far as I can see.

I find it hard to understand what an alliance of mutual interest between Conservatives and (royalist) Confederates bent on keeping their own land tells us about understanding the sensibilities of Irish history. Trimble, for all that I admire the work himself and John Hume did in crafting the Good Friday agreement was not, as far as I am aware, a Tory until 2007.

Tory politicians in Northern Ireland have run the gamut from the relatively good (King, to name but one) to the very bad (Humphrey Atkins) to the downright incompetent (Mayhew). Perhaps my charge was a generalisation so, though one I feel is grounded at least in a degree of truth.
0
quote
reply
Lazlo_Panaflex
Badges: 0
#245
Report 7 years ago
#245
(Original post by gigglybum)
so my ex boyfriend was from the north of ireland..and viewed himself as irish (he catholic) and he tried to explain the division between protestants (british) and catholic (irish) in northern ireland.and it seemed all a bit confusing. why does it really matter what religion you are?...noone cares anywhere else...and since geographically people who are from ireland live on irish land (especially since its an island aswell)..shouldnt they then be seen as irish?....also whenever i speak about norther ireland..my ex used to flinch..cos he'd ask me 'whats the difference between being northern irish and irish? we're all irish.' so i always refer to people from northern ireland..as irish people who live in the north. just cos i dont wanna create conflict with anyone who feels strongly about the subject.views?
The religion thing is not really important. It's just a convenient label. The real difference in identities is with our nationlities. I wouldn't approach the question of whether Ireland is "British or Irish" since in my mind it's a place populated by a mixture of Irish people and British people.

When you say about how some people from this island choose not to identify as Irish, it's fine. I think it's ok to leave room for people to choose their national identity, even if it sounds strange to people on the outside (people from countries which have one main nation living there).

It's fine.

:shifty:
0
quote
reply
Phonicschick
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#246
Report 7 years ago
#246
(Original post by L i b)
It took two seconds to check your profile - if you're not capable of taking the initiative to challenge someone else's claims, then you really shouldn't bother coming onto a debating forum. Anyway, I didn't even realise you'd only studied it at secondary level. Even if you'd done it to degree level at Trinity, I wouldn't have given a ****: you were wrong.

Telling me that I'm a English fool and thus incapable of understanding Irish history is nothing short of racism. We don't stand for that here. I'm not English either: I'm was born in Canada, raised in Scotland and am British. Yes, I do think - given what you've said - that I know more about Irish history, or am at least better at contextualising it - than you. If your only argument about that is my ethnic origins, then you'll be laughed out of this place faster than the ones who think the Queen is secretly Jewish and that reptilian people control the banking system.
Hold on a second I never said you were an 'English fool' so stop making up a load of bull. I just can't believe your trying to defend this so much, it's as if you were involved in the whole process of the history. Jesus, just let it go man, i'm standing up for what I and most of the country believe in and theres no more about it.
0
quote
reply
Phonicschick
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#247
Report 7 years ago
#247
(Original post by StarsAreFixed)
Technically A-Levels are more advanced, since they are more indepth as opposed to the Leaving's system of more subjects, less indepth. Your crappy point is moot anyway, since Lib would have done Scottish Highers.

I would not call Leaving Cert history a thorough grounding in Irish history by any means. For a start, it starts in 1860 and ends before the Troubles. There IS an earlier course but very few schools do it. I have studied four years of Irish history in Trinity- 500- 2003ish, I can tell you there are massive important gaps in Irish history taught in schools in general as well as the Leaving. They need to focus less on Hitler and Stalin- overkill. Lib has a great understanding of Irish history, he just has a different slant to it. No need to be downright abusive to someone of a different opinion.
I am not trying to be abusive and fair enough i can't argue with someone who studied at trinity. I just have a different understanding to it obviously like you said we were not taught everything. But from what we were thought is where my opinion comes from and most of the countries. I am allowed to be a 'republican' so to speak, that is just the way I feel.
0
quote
reply
StarsAreFixed
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#248
Report 7 years ago
#248
(Original post by Phonicschick)
I am not trying to be abusive and fair enough i can't argue with someone who studied at trinity. I just have a different understanding to it obviously like you said we were not taught everything. But from what we were thought is where my opinion comes from and most of the countries. I am allowed to be a 'republican' so to speak, that is just the way I feel.

Fair enough, and it is a fact that Irish history reads like 'and then Britain did this bad thing..then this...then this'. I would just be reluctant to associate any of it with Britain itself today and in our lifetime.
0
quote
reply
phill232
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#249
Report 7 years ago
#249
(Original post by Phonicschick)
It's called the leaving certificate by the way, you know the more advanced version of the A-levels?
Alevels are more indepth than the leaving cert.
0
quote
reply
Phonicschick
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#250
Report 7 years ago
#250
(Original post by StarsAreFixed)
Fair enough, and it is a fact that Irish history reads like 'and then Britain did this bad thing..then this...then this'. I would just be reluctant to associate any of it with Britain itself today and in our lifetime.
I know that it is in some way childish to associate it with britain today but some people just can't forget the past, me being one of them, but I have english friends so i don't the people at all. The main event that happened (1916 easter rising) was devastating and completely wrong of the british to undertake. however i do not have bad views of the english today, just yesterday so to speak
0
quote
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Were you ever put in isolation at school?

Yes (221)
28.01%
No (568)
71.99%

Watched Threads

View All