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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Tell that to the Romans, Normans etc.

    I never said th ENTIRE... but it alters it enough to bother people
    Relative to the size of populations though it would be a bigger influence. The population of Britain now is compartively massive, it would be difficult for immigration to effect it massively unless we saw a vast and I mean VAST increase.

    Im also addressing the reason that people are anti-immigration.
    Oh no, I can see why some people in areas with high concentrations of immigrants might feel like they're losing their cultural identity...but I certainly think they have a distorted view from their position. I think working to combat the segregation of communities and working to promote integration of cultures rather than seperation would be more effective in solving that problem than curbing immigration. Whether that is practical or not is up in the air, I really couldn't comment on whether it is possible or not, I would like to think it is.

    Really? Suddenly freedom of speech is in question, suddenly shops in certain areas wont sell porn mags because the Qorun is against it?
    I don't think freedom of speech is in question as a result of Islamic influence. I think the media has blown this issues out of proportion and I don't think the influence of Islam is as big as they would have you believe. True in areas of high Islamic population there may be noticeable differences. But consider your average native Briton, who compose by far the majority of the population. Are they going to adopt islamic values just because a small segment of the population expresses different views? A major change in social values won't come about from the rantings of a minority.

    Not all - but enough to make it an issue. Freedom of though, speech and belief is under threat in a number of areas.
    I really don't know what the extent of the problem with extreme Muslims in small areas but I don't think we can take this is an accurate representation of immigration. Radical Muslims are being tackled by the government. They are not representative of the impact of immigration on Britain.

    I think it is impossible to contend that over the last 50 years immigration hasnt had a MASSIVE effect on bitish culture.... really ... Out capital , with over 12% of the population is entirely different to it used to be - largely due to immigration.
    No doubt in terms of the racial profiling of the population that immigration has had an impact. But culturally I don't think the impact is relative to that racial change. Some contributions have been made from other cultures, but I don't think British culture has been significantly lost or 'destroyed'.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Relative to the size of populations though it would be a bigger influence. The population of Britain now is compartively massive, it would be difficult for immigration to effect it massively unless we saw a vast and I mean VAST increase.
    Hmm, im not so sure. The Normans in particular only really replaced the upper echelons of English society. I think the real problem is the place of insertion - though the Normans completley destroyed many elements of the Anglo-Saxon Church and wrecked the existing legal system, they were only to do this because they popped in at the top of the social hierarchy. Unlike immigrants today.

    Question: That is obviously due to immigration, but is it right to blame the immigrants? By which I mean: did they kick and scream until they got these various preferential treatments, or did some watchdog in Westminster just randomly decide, without asking any of the people concerned, that quotas and the like were needed? It's all very well saying "the government bends over backwards to help minorities", but what if the minorities' response is "well, we didn't ask them to"?
    I think the obvious exemplar of this was the Muslim protest in favour of christmas. Can't quite remember which part of London it happened in though. The stupid beaurecrats cause problems in so many ways - not only do they wind up the majority of the British population by getting involve in petty actions such as trying to ban christmas they also seem to be refusing to help reclaim the St George's cross and the Union Jack back from the facists.
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    (Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
    But sometimes variety is a bad thing! some elements of culture are needed to be standard. A variety of languages, for example, is not a good thing for a cohesive society.
    Yes I agree. The way things were unmixed before (re: cultures, marriages etc.) was good in a way because it kept certain cultures etc going. Nowadays, there are less black people and less white people etc. there are many people in between. I believe that in the future, no one is going to be of pure origin, or of one nationality etc. I believe that there will be a total disappearance of white people, asian, etc and there will only be people of skin colours that are in betwween and races etc. and though at the moment I like it because it brings something different, I think eventually it people will find people of purely on descent appealing.
    In terms of cohesiveness, I think at present variety and a mixture of everything is causing a lack of understanding and as a result discrimination and disputes etc. but in the future I think it will bring everyone together. Then I think people will try to get back their original races.
    Does this seem plausible or a little farfetched?
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    I liked it when people on the Isle of Man only bred with people on the Isle of Man. Nowadays the Isle of Man race is being mixed with Liverpudlian races and so on, so everyone loses cultural identity. It is much better when everyone is as inbred as possible, because then we get loads of diversity. When people with different genetics have children, the children are all identikit and everyone ends up looking the same. We are much better off with one set of white people and one set up black people, because we all need our original races because that is the only way to preserve a culture.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    than immigrants needing to get out of their countries, or merely wanting a better life.
    I'm all for immigration but not in the way you're describing it: as if Britain has some duty to let people in so they can have a better life.

    Immigrants shouldn't be going into a country because they want something out of it, but because they can contribute to that country. This is the principle in most modern Western countries.

    Genuine asylum seekers, well that's a different issue.
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    I liked it when people on the Isle of Man only bred with people on the Isle of Man. Nowadays the Isle of Man race is being mixed with Liverpudlian races and so on, so everyone loses cultural identity. It is much better when everyone is as inbred as possible, because then we get loads of diversity. When people with different genetics have children, the children are all identikit and everyone ends up looking the same. We are much better off with one set of white people and one set up black people, because we all need our original races because that is the only way to preserve a culture.
    Irony....

    Why not be sincere?:p:
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    I liked it when people from Essex only bred with other people from Essex. That's how I got these webbed feet and six fingers on each hand.
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    I thought you were from Ulster?
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    And almost every teenager on the continent listens to English music btw! (since it is the only decent music scene)
    I think you need to look at the music scenes in different European countries a bit more. Some countries like France, Spain or Italy have their own music scenes which even sell more than any "English" music. In France, 40% of music on the radio has to be in French. Sure there are many artists that people in most of Europe will have heard of but each European country gets a "filtered" version of the music from a foreign country. It depends whether the artists get signed to a label in that country. Some bands are signed to a huge label in one country but simply aren't distributed/publicised/don't get any radio airplay in another country.

    In the UK, we don't even listen to the same music than in other anglo-saxon cultures. What's big in the US, Canada or Australia is totally different than in the UK. There are bands that are huge in the US that are totally unknown in the UK and vice versa.

    The internet has changed that somewhat but only to a slight extent.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    I thought you were from Ulster?
    That I am. It was a joke. If I actually had extra fingers, I'd be posting so fast it would make your browser spin.

    Seriously, though, Essex aside - "preserving racial purity" is simply inbreeding by any other name.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I think you need to look at the music scenes in different European countries a bit more. Some countries like France, Spain or Italy have their own music scenes which even sell more than any "English" music. In France, 40% of music on the radio has to be in French. Sure there are many artists that people in most of Europe will have heard of but each European country gets a "filtered" version of the music from a foreign country. It depends whether the artists get signed to a label in that country. Some bands are signed to a huge label in one country but simply aren't distributed/publicised/don't get any radio airplay in another country.

    In the UK, we don't even listen to the same music than in other anglo-saxon cultures. What's big in the US, Canada or Australia is totally different than in the UK. There are bands that are huge in the US that are totally unknown in the UK and vice versa.

    The internet has changed that somewhat but only to a slight extent.
    I find it somewhat of a relief that you find different music scenes in different nations, for example could I have survived a childhood in Germany?

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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I think you need to look at the music scenes in different European countries a bit more. Some countries like France, Spain or Italy have their own music scenes which even sell more than any "English" music. In France, 40% of music on the radio has to be in French. Sure there are many artists that people in most of Europe will have heard of but each European country gets a "filtered" version of the music from a foreign country. It depends whether the artists get signed to a label in that country. Some bands are signed to a huge label in one country but simply aren't distributed/publicised/don't get any radio airplay in another country.

    In the UK, we don't even listen to the same music than in other anglo-saxon cultures. What's big in the US, Canada or Australia is totally different than in the UK. There are bands that are huge in the US that are totally unknown in the UK and vice versa.

    The internet has changed that somewhat but only to a slight extent.
    I know, wht you say is all true, and I largely agree with you.

    I wrote this in a post on this thread earlier on:

    All of my german friends say it and are into franz and the arctic monks and subways, all of the mainstream indie-rock stuff. But obviously I can't speak for the greeks or hungarians. I'm talking indie-rock stuff here as well, not the trashy stuff that gets played in clubs. And the radio stations have to play domestic stuff; it's actually the law in france that they have to play french stuff for a certain parcentage of the time that they are on the air (the actual figure eludes me for the moment).
    (I thought it was around 40% but I wasn't sure; thanks for clearing that up )

    Honestly for indie-rock music, British music is far more popular among teenagers in Germany and also, but to a lesser extent, in France, although I do admittedly have less experience there, mostly because more French kids seem to prefer rap/RnB. Pfssst. I agree that there are of course many domestic bands that have never made it over here, simply because they are not released: take Die Aerzte for example, but on the whole the British indie-rock scene is the best.

    The internet is massively resposible for this change as well. I'm always sharing music files with german mates.
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    (Original post by EastMidlander)
    I find it somewhat of a relief that you find different music scenes in different nations, for example could I have survived a childhood in Germany?

    Yet you managed to survive a childhood in Britain?
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    Yet you managed to survive a childhood in Britain?
    The scars are still there, the trauma may never truely be healed.
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    (Original post by EastMidlander)
    The scars are still there, the trauma may never truely be healed.
    It's a good pic ain't it? 'Bout the most embarassing 90's pic I could lay my hands on in under 5mins.

    Hah, well it made me laugh. He's definately been "tango-ed" there.
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    To address the points people raised about immigrants all being concentrated into one area, i must say that i don't believe it is their choice.

    How many immigrants are in a position, when they arrive, to think, "right, i'm here. Lets take a look at statistics to see where the rest of the ------ live, and use all of that money we have to buy a house there, because we want to segregate ourselves and pretend we live in our old country, even though we've just upped sticks to start a better life"

    The government house these people. They don't get to choose where they live. They get put into council housing in poorer areas, flats, bedsits, or whatever. That is the reason for the high concentration of immigrants in particular areas.

    Lets not turn this into a debate about the musical tastes of European kiddies please!

    And Paul Bedford, i hope you aren't originally from Coventry, because i knew a complete geek at school with the same name.....



    If people believe that immigrants hold such power that they can reign in British culture, and wheel out their own, and we'll all be greatly affected by it, god give me bloody strength!

    Using examples of Islamic extremists isn't good.

    And something else niggles me. It seems that while talking about immigration, all of the "bad" reasons seem to focus on Islamics, to argue the curtailment of immigratio in general. I take it nooone is oopsed to Australians or Americans upping sticks and coming to live here then? Becasue they are westernised? So people are saying that immigration is okay as long as the people coming here are the same, "culturally" as us? Because people are arguing agaisnt immigration, out of fear of change. Westernised immigrants wouldn't "change" things as such, so are people okay with them coming in? It really does all coe down the fear of the unknown, and that is why the more conservative you are, the less change you want., because the more you fear.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    To address the points people raised about immigrants all being concentrated into one area, i must say that i don't believe it is their choice.
    Whose choice is it then?

    The government house these people. They don't get to choose where they live.
    Actually you apply to live in a certain area.

    And Paul Bedford, i hope you aren't originally from Coventry, because i knew a complete geek at school with the same name.....
    No, I'm from Nottingham.

    It really does all coe down the fear of the unknown, and that is why the more conservative you are, the less change you want., because the more you fear.
    I don't see how that follows at all.

    I think you can be well travelled, highly intelligent, have interacted with every race or group of people on the planet, and still want to preserve a culture.

    I seem to recall that many of the anti-immigration Conservative voters in the 1970's were ex-pats who had returned from abroad after many nations had gained independence.

    These people were surely far more aware of other cultures than an average Brit who had never been further than Skegness once a year for his holidays?
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Whose choice is it then?



    Actually you apply to live in a certain area.



    No, I'm from Nottingham.



    I don't see how that follows at all.

    I think you can be well travelled, highly intelligent, have interacted with every race or group of people on the planet, and still want to preserve a culture.

    I seem to recall that many of the anti-immigration Conservative voters in the 1970's were ex-pats who had returned from abroad after many nations had gained independence.

    These people were surely far more aware of other cultures than an average Brit who had never been further than Skegness once a year for his holidays?
    No, you are given a minimal list of areas you are allowed to pick from. Take a look, and you'll soon realise that all of the areas are inner- city, all of the lists given out are the same to all of the immigrants in each city, and all of the areas already contain high numbers of immigrants. You get to put your choices into order, and then they are chosen by officials- you do not get to pick your own area. And my mother, who does a lot of voluntary work with refugees, knows the system well.

    And even if they were allowed to choose. You think someone who just escaped Mugabe's regime and has never been out of Africa in their life is going to be clued up about which specific areas in Britain are highly populated with fellow Zimbabweans?:rolleyes:

    Many of the anti-immigration conservatives were expats (the irony)? Well, more were not. What does your point prove?
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    No, you are given a minimal list of areas you are allowed to pick from.
    So as I said you have a choice, as opposed to what you said, that they have no choice.

    Take a look, and you'll soon realise that all of the areas are inner- city, all of the lists given out are the same to all of the immigrants in each city, and all of the areas already contain high numbers of immigrants.
    Well of course they are inner city areas.

    How many council estates do you think exist in the middle of the countryside?

    But they still have a choice don't they?

    You get to put your choices into order, and then they are chosen by officials- you do not get to pick your own area.
    Not quite true, you select your preferences, and then when the first vacancy on your list comes up it is offered to you, you then have the right to refuse it.

    And even if they were allowed to choose.
    Even if they were?

    We've seen they are.

    You think someone who just escaped Mugabe's regime and has never been out of Africa in their life is going to be clued up about which specific areas in Britain are highly populated with fellow Zimbabweans?:rolleyes:
    So answer me this then, if they have a list with multiple choices why do they pick the same areas as each other?

    I mean if I came from Zimbabwe, to use your example, and I have a list with all these cities and areas on, how come I don't pick Bradford, Southall and Slough as my three preferences?

    If I did then I wouldn't be with other Zimbabweans would I?

    So how come these people end up in the same areas with their choices?

    Many of the anti-immigration conservatives were expats (the irony)? Well, more were not. What does your point prove?
    It proves your point was wrong.

    Does it need to prove anything else?
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    So as I said you have a choice, as opposed to what you said, that they have no choice.



    Well of course they are inner city areas.

    How many council estates do you think exist in the middle of the countryside?

    But they still have a choice don't they?



    Not quite true, you select your preferences, and then when the first vacancy on your list comes up it is offered to you, you then have the right to refuse it.



    Even if they were?

    We've seen they are.



    So answer me this then, if they have a list with multiple choices why do they pick the same areas as each other?

    I mean if I came from Zimbabwe, to use your example, and I have a list with all these cities and areas on, how come I don't pick Bradford, Southall and Slough as my three preferences?

    If I did then I wouldn't be with other Zimbabweans would I?

    So how come these people end up in the same areas with their choices?



    It proves your point was wrong.

    Does it need to prove anything else?
    You are quite a simplistic boy aren't you? You decide i'm wrong, when i'm not. Then you go off on one completely, trying to be a pedant throughout, while being wrong. They don't get to pick the house they get to live in. They are given options, and all of those options are the same for all immigrants in a given city. Getting it so far? So, if 1000 immigrants have the same list of places to stay, chances are they'll all be living close together, in a concentrated area. They don't have any options on the list where there wouldn't be a high concentratio of immigrants, because they all have to live in the poorer areas, where there will liekly be more immigrants who had the same "choices" How much more simple do you want the concept?

    Explain how the expat comments you made prove any point i made was wrong.
 
 
 
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