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    (Original post by Syrian Guy)
    I can see why you don't understand the situation in Syria. I'd suggest you watch this film and see how brainwashed we were! Thanks to the Syrian revolution.

    PS. Thanks for the rep, :rolleyes:
    Because i'd support a dictator who can keep his country peaceful and pleasant over a bunch of mentally impaired muslim thugs with guns, weve seen libye, weve seen iraq, weve seen yemen etc. you freedom fighters appear to little more than a guise flor a]another dictator or b]some nasty little cesspit run under sharia.
    a rep for a rep, alls fair in war kiddo, you should know this.
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    (Original post by Clessus)
    Very true, it's very sad to see. I do have great sympathy for the Syrian people caught up in it all. I just hope that the ongoing negotiations at least sort something out.

    Yes I think humanitarian organisations such as the Red Cross and should be supported but not direct action as that will have negative repercussions across the world. With Russia and China backing Assad it could become almost a proxy war like something out of the cold war.

    Indeed. The Russian Civil War, which saw the fledgling Bolshevik regime, the repository of the hopes of millions of socialists worldwide, transform itself into a dictatorship, while continuing to justify its rule on the basis of its “revolutionary socialism,” a paradox that was starkly posed when the Bolsheviks suppressed the uprising of revolutionary sailors and workers at Kronstadt in 1921 in the name of the “workers” state. And so it went on, as you say.
    Yes, the Kronstadt sailors had ironically been the greatest supporters of the Bolsheviks early on and were now destroyed. The saddest thing being that the person who ordered the repression was not Stalin but Trotsky. A noble idea let down by self serving leaders. I think the suppression of trade unionists is the early warning sign in all these dictatorships.
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    All this SAA raping and killing civilians is a load of rubbish the most there is is quite a lot of collateral killings because the FSA love Hiding and killing civilians just think, he would have been long gone if the Secular Syrian people didn't want an Israeli mandate or Shari'a law.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    That's a flawed argument!

    How can you say that you would rather have bashar than the syrians rule because you are afraid about the future...bloody hell are you not worried about the present? How many have been killed so far? or does that not matter because most of them have been sunni muslims so thats okay? hmmm...

    Right now there is killing, its not going to stop, its going to continue because the source is still there so unless bashar goes this is going to last a bit longer than the syrians thought.
    What do you propose then? It is wrong for Britain or other European as well as American to send in ground forces as British and European soldiers and American should not suffer for a war that is not of their making. Furthermore neither should a no fly zone be established as it is a time of Austerity and these countries should be concentrating upon their own populations.
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    (Original post by iSoftie)
    All this SAA raping and killing civilians is a load of rubbish the most there is is quite a lot of collateral killings because the FSA love Hiding and killing civilians just think, he would have been long gone if the Secular Syrian people didn't want an Israeli mandate or Shari'a law.
    I have seen many many videos of Syrian soldiers torturing and killing FSA POWs.On the other hand, the FSA is just as guilty for the same things (video evidence etc)... 'tis all awfully barbaric nonetheless.
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    The syrian army dont kill FSA members because they cannot get hold of them...Instead they kill innocent civilians. Normally civilians do die in a war, However, in this barbaric war, they are the MAIN target and not caught in the middle as some may like to put it. The majority of the 100,000 killed are civilians for reasons which I have already stated above.

    They dont rape FSA members, they rape random people and women in their houses (unarmed btw! ) they have committed crimes never seen in history before. The rubbish that FSA is similar is just a lazy suggestion. They may have committed some crimes but they are no way of the magnitude of the so called syrian army who is meant to be protect its people.

    You have an official army committing disgusting crimes compared to civilians who have decided to arm themselves so they can defend their homes so they can protect their mum and dad and their children. They havent been trained or brought up as army personnel, thus one action doesnt convey the action of all FSA. Where as an action from the"syrian army" equates to the whole country because apparently they are there to protect the country from enemies...


    You clearly haven't seen or read about any crimes the army has committed. Its well documented. They will be punished for it no matter how long it takes. That's just life, it might take months, years, decades, but one day every soldier who killed a child and raped a 12 year old girl will be help accountable for their actions.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    The syrian army dont kill FSA members because they cannot get hold of them...Instead they kill innocent civilians. Normally civilians do die in a war, However, in this barbaric war, they are the MAIN target and not caught in the middle as some may like to put it. The majority of the 100,000 killed are civilians for reasons which I have already stated above.

    They dont rape FSA members, they rape random people and women in their houses (unarmed btw! ) they have committed crimes never seen in history before. The rubbish that FSA is similar is just a lazy suggestion. They may have committed some crimes but they are no way of the magnitude of the so called syrian army who is meant to be protect its people.

    You have an official army committing disgusting crimes compared to civilians who have decided to arm themselves so they can defend their homes so they can protect their mum and dad and their children. They havent been trained or brought up as army personnel, thus one action doesnt convey the action of all FSA. Where as an action from the"syrian army" equates to the whole country because apparently they are there to protect the country from enemies...


    You clearly haven't seen or read about any crimes the army has committed. Its well documented. They will be punished for it no matter how long it takes. That's just life, it might take months, years, decades, but one day every soldier who killed a child and raped a 12 year old girl will be help accountable for their actions.
    I'm pretty sure they have just done bog standard murder like countless armies have done since time memorial; but hey, prove me wrong....
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    (Original post by Ornlu)
    I'm pretty sure they have just done bog standard murder like countless armies have done since time memorial; but hey, prove me wrong....
    "Pretty Sure" Based on what exactly? I don't know what you watch or read...or how much you know about the revolution and how it started and the history of syria or how long this regime has been oppressing its people? So I cannot tell what this is based on.

    An assumption maybe?



    But what I know, Is the crimes that have been committed in syria are not the "standard" you see in Iraq, Afghanstan, or the Bosnian civil war.

    This is a new level...never carried out before.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    "Pretty Sure" Based on what exactly? I don't know what you watch or read...or how much you know about the revolution and how it started and the history of syria or how long this regime has been oppressing its people? So I cannot tell what this is based on.

    An assumption maybe?



    But what I know, Is the crimes that have been committed in syria are not the "standard" you see in Iraq, Afghanstan, or the Bosnian civil war.

    This is a new level...never carried out before.
    You shouldve seen what the Japanese done to people in the colonies during WW2.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    "Pretty Sure" Based on what exactly? I don't know what you watch or read...or how much you know about the revolution and how it started and the history of syria or how long this regime has been oppressing its people? So I cannot tell what this is based on.

    An assumption maybe?



    But what I know, Is the crimes that have been committed in syria are not the "standard" you see in Iraq, Afghanstan, or the Bosnian civil war.

    This is a new level...never carried out before.
    'Pretty sure' in that they have committed murder, pillaged and raped etc; are you telling me that no army has ever done that before?
    Again, I say, tell me what they have done which has never been seen before in history.

    Edit: Examples of extreme measures:
    -Genghis Khan pillaging, raping and massacring whole cities e.g. Otrar was completely destroyed because a governer murdered some Mongolian envoys/ merchents
    -All the Muslims being killed once Jerusalem was captured by Crusaders
    -The Armenian Genocide
    -The Holocaust
    -The Soviet conquest of Nazi Germany
    -The chemical attacks on Kurdish villages in Iraq (Kurdish Genocide)
    -The Yugoslavian Genocides

    Need I go on?
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    (Original post by Mo_maths)
    Inshallah the Wahabis fall, for it is them who have ruined the image of Islam.
    Yes, they made look islam suspicious. As a result it seems that even witout the wahhabis islam is not tolerant.

    (Original post by Syrian Guy)
    He hasn’t won yet. He’s just stalling for time. I mean, let’s face it, resistance won’t stop and the current situation is like a sword of Damocles hanging over him. It's only a matter of time till he’ll be thrown into the dustbin of history.
    Really? That is very sad

    But at least the news from the fron are very good and it really seems that al-Qussary will be liberated soon. War in Syria must stop as soon as possible.
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    (Original post by Rational Thinker)

    Well chosen, I remember reading something about Hebrang he was a victims of Stalin I believe although I may be wrong, it's sad, it seems the biggest victims of Stalin were those of genuine left wing views, eg Hebrang, Kamnev, Trotsky, Zinoviev. I think it was Lenin and Stalin who dissolved trade unions under the argument that "they were the trade unions now".
    Actually Hebrang was a good friend with Stalin (he talken with him about creating a "Greater Yugoslavia"); he was a victim of Tito.
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    (Original post by player19)
    Actually Hebrang was a good friend with Stalin (he talken with him about creating a "Greater Yugoslavia"); he was a victim of Tito.
    True (though I wouldn't call him a 'good friend' of Stalin), he was killed by Tito mainly because the Croatian communists were becoming too independent vis-a-vis the Yugoslav centre for Tito's liking (I have respect for Tito and Hoxha as well for their WW2 records, but their political records let them down somewhat).



    (Original post by Rational Thinker)
    Yes, the Kronstadt sailors had ironically been the greatest supporters of the Bolsheviks early on and were now destroyed. The saddest thing being that the person who ordered the repression was not Stalin but Trotsky. A noble idea let down by self serving leaders. I think the suppression of trade unionists is the early warning sign in all these dictatorships.
    Very true (that's one thing about Trotsky that many of his apologists overlook), Trotsky also supported the crushing of the peasants during the War Communism period, as well as the Soviet invasion of Finland (whose right to self-determination Trotsky regarded as 'worth less than a thistledown'). I think the ultimate wake-up call though had to be when the USSR signed an alliance with Hitler, betrayed the German Communists to the Gestapo, and then helped Nazi Germany destroy Poland.
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    (Original post by Clessus)
    True (though I wouldn't call him a 'good friend' of Stalin), he was killed by Tito mainly because the Croatian communists were becoming too independent vis-a-vis the Yugoslav centre for Tito's liking (I have respect for Tito.
    I did not mean they were personal friend, it is just that I made a overrated expression due to bad english.

    By that time there was also the Infonbiro resolution which also contributed.
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    (Original post by player19)
    I did not mean they were personal friend, it is just that I made a overrated expression due to bad english.

    By that time there was also the Infonbiro resolution which also contributed.
    Yes I think we Stalin anyone would become his friend because the other option is death. Look at Khrushchev supposedly Stalin's loyal subordinate, once Stalin dies it is a different case. Stalin was ruthless, intelligent and dangerous.
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    (Original post by Clessus)
    True (though I wouldn't call him a 'good friend' of Stalin), he was killed by Tito mainly because the Croatian communists were becoming too independent vis-a-vis the Yugoslav centre for Tito's liking (I have respect for Tito and Hoxha as well for their WW2 records, but their political records let them down somewhat).





    Very true (that's one thing about Trotsky that many of his apologists overlook), Trotsky also supported the crushing of the peasants during the War Communism period, as well as the Soviet invasion of Finland (whose right to self-determination Trotsky regarded as 'worth less than a thistledown'). I think the ultimate wake-up call though had to be when the USSR signed an alliance with Hitler, betrayed the German Communists to the Gestapo, and then helped Nazi Germany destroy Poland.
    Agreed, have you read Issac Deutscher's biography of Trotsky? It paints a different light of him and makes the case that he was not the good to Stalin's bad. I agree about the German communists betrayal. Even in the Spanish civil war Stalin interfered and I believe purged some of the Anarchist members, highlighting that he did not want to help those on the left but instead cared more about his will being obeyed.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    The syrian army dont kill FSA members because they cannot get hold of them...Instead they kill innocent civilians. Normally civilians do die in a war, However, in this barbaric war, they are the MAIN target and not caught in the middle as some may like to put it. The majority of the 100,000 killed are civilians for reasons which I have already stated above.

    They dont rape FSA members, they rape random people and women in their houses (unarmed btw! ) they have committed crimes never seen in history before. The rubbish that FSA is similar is just a lazy suggestion. They may have committed some crimes but they are no way of the magnitude of the so called syrian army who is meant to be protect its people.

    You have an official army committing disgusting crimes compared to civilians who have decided to arm themselves so they can defend their homes so they can protect their mum and dad and their children. They havent been trained or brought up as army personnel, thus one action doesnt convey the action of all FSA. Where as an action from the"syrian army" equates to the whole country because apparently they are there to protect the country from enemies...


    You clearly haven't seen or read about any crimes the army has committed. Its well documented. They will be punished for it no matter how long it takes. That's just life, it might take months, years, decades, but one day every soldier who killed a child and raped a 12 year old girl will be help accountable for their actions.

    Both sides are evil. British soldiers should not die for the petty bickering of others (it is petty bickering the Rebels are bankrolled by Al Qaeda and are no better than Assad). You seem to have this idea that revolutions are always good? In fact they are often bloody messes that don't change anything in the long run and are just as bad. Eg Russian revolution, The Iranian Revolution of ignorance, the Libyan revolution. I'm all for punishing those who are responsible so long as the rebels are punished. Too. Britain should stay out and sort out its many domestic affairs/
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    (Original post by Rational Thinker)
    Both sides are evil. British soldiers should not die for the petty bickering of others (it is petty bickering the Rebels are bankrolled by Al Qaeda and are no better than Assad). You seem to have this idea that revolutions are always good? In fact they are often bloody messes that don't change anything in the long run and are just as bad. Eg Russian revolution, The Iranian Revolution of ignorance, the Libyan revolution. I'm all for punishing those who are responsible so long as the rebels are punished. Too. Britain should stay out and sort out its many domestic affairs/
    Sure, sure...Just let them die, Its not our mess.

    But the minute we sense the FSA or any syrian group toppling assad and regaining power, we go all guns blazing "Oh no we shouldn't let them rule, because they are muslim...instead we should find them another dictator to rule them"...?

    If you don't help in the mess you don't get any say at the end....That's how I see it


    p.s If you want to control the outcome of this syrian revolution and who becomes a leader (which I assume is what UK wants..) then am afraid we have to get our hands dirty....Otherwise we have no control over what happens now or anytime in the future.....we might get "extremist" ruling syria....? Not good idea eh?
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    Sure, sure...Just let them die, Its not our mess.

    But the minute we sense the FSA or any syrian group toppling assad and regaining power, we go all guns blazing "Oh no we shouldn't let them rule, because they are muslim...instead we should find them another dictator to rule them"...?

    If you don't help in the mess you don't get any say at the end....That's how I see it


    p.s If you want to control the outcome of this syrian revolution and who becomes a leader (which I assume is what UK wants..) then am afraid we have to get our hands dirty....Otherwise we have no control over what happens now or anytime in the future.....we might get "extremist" ruling syria....? Not good idea eh?
    No we shouldn't get involved. If you want Britain to get involved you should register your bank details with the army so when British soldiers die and their wives or husband no longer have a spouse and the children have lost one parent then you can pay them compensation, it's only fair, oh no wait you're a hypocrite and would not give any of your own money. The Syrian rebels are losing, they have bitten off more than they can digest. They believed that Assad would just roll over and die, well now they can see just how presumptive they were.
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    (Original post by Ama2007)
    Sure, sure...Just let them die, Its not our mess.

    But the minute we sense the FSA or any syrian group toppling assad and regaining power, we go all guns blazing "Oh no we shouldn't let them rule, because they are muslim...instead we should find them another dictator to rule them"...?

    If you don't help in the mess you don't get any say at the end....That's how I see it


    p.s If you want to control the outcome of this syrian revolution and who becomes a leader (which I assume is what UK wants..) then am afraid we have to get our hands dirty....Otherwise we have no control over what happens now or anytime in the future.....we might get "extremist" ruling syria....? Not good idea eh?
    Yes lets get involved, have british soldiers die and then setup a democracy with an extremist party getting elected (which we cant stop), then cue the increasing amount of Sectarian violence as a result of it (suicide bombings, car bombs etc) between Sunni's and Shia's. Look at Iraq, Libya etc..

    There is no centre parties when it comes to Sunni's and Shia's, historically either is a minority or majority, with Assad gone, Sunni party's will use the slogan of Shia's dominating the country for the past years, and then add to the violence.
 
 
 
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