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Who is the best player in the premier league/who will have the best season next year? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Best player in the premier league
    Sanchez
    7.26%
    Ozil
    6.45%
    Hazard
    12.90%
    Mata
    1.61%
    Diego Costa
    2.42%
    Daniel Sturridge
    4.84%
    Raheem Sterling
    3.23%
    Robin Van Persie
    4.03%
    Vincent Kompany
    3.23%
    John Terry
    1.61%
    Fabregas
    4.03%
    Mertesacker
    0.81%
    David Silva
    1.61%
    Sergio Aguero
    8.87%
    Yaya Toure
    34.68%
    Other
    2.42%

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    I voted for Yaya Toure, which was now the wrong call. It is quite clear that Sergio Aguero is the best player in the Premier League at this time. He is absolutely magnificent. After him I'm not sure...
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Based on what? I think he's having a very similar season to Bale actually. Carrying an underperforming Arsenal single-handedly and already has 14 goals/4 assists in all comps. And has apparently been playing through a groin injury. He could well match Bale's 26 goals, the only thing that would stop him is a long-term injury.
    Because Aguero/Costa will undoubtedly score that many AND one of them will lift the trophy as a result.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I voted for Yaya Toure, which was now the wrong call. It is quite clear that Sergio Aguero is the best player in the Premier League at this time. He is absolutely magnificent. After him I'm not sure...
    Aguero is the closest we have to a Messi or Ronaldo and he's a very, very special player. We can only wonder what might have happened in the World Cup, had he been fit.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Based on what? I think he's having a very similar season to Bale actually. Carrying an underperforming Arsenal single-handedly and already has 14 goals/4 assists in all comps. And has apparently been playing through a groin injury. He could well match Bale's 26 goals, the only thing that would stop him is a long-term injury.
    He's playing through a groin injury that's just going to exacerbate the problem if he's not given a sufficient time to rest he'll be injured soon enough.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    I voted for Yaya Toure, which was now the wrong call. It is quite clear that Sergio Aguero is the best player in the Premier League at this time. He is absolutely magnificent. After him I'm not sure...
    Aguero has been amazing, but I think fabregas is in for a shout
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Because Aguero/Costa will undoubtedly score that many AND one of them will lift the trophy as a result.
    Whilst I agree either of them would outscore him, Bale still won it over RVP who scored more and won the PL that year.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Whilst I agree either of them would outscore him, Bale still won it over RVP who scored more and won the PL that year.
    Because RVP dipped in form. Which was my point beforehand that whoever does better in the second half of the season is the one who usually gets the trophy. Bale started shining just before the midway mark e.g.

    Toure e.g. was being seen as City's best player last season and being touted for player of the year despite Aguero being the one dragging City out the dirt in the first half of last season.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Based on what? I think he's having a very similar season to Bale actually. Carrying an underperforming Arsenal single-handedly and already has 14 goals/4 assists in all comps. And has apparently been playing through a groin injury. He could well match Bale's 26 goals, the only thing that would stop him is a long-term injury.
    And if you look beyond just goals and assists, it's even more worrying just how much Arsenal are relying on Sanchez. He seems to do everything and a long term injury would probably be a disaster for them.

    I think your comparison to Bale is fair, but it's unlikely Sanchez will get the same recognition, seeing as he was an established name who cost a lot of money from Barca.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    He's playing through a groin injury that's just going to exacerbate the problem if he's not given a sufficient time to rest he'll be injured soon enough.
    Well everyone's going to get injured some time, question is how long for. But with the burden of having to carry the team it makes it an increasingly difficult task having to cover for Ozil, Walcott absences.

    (Original post by jam277)
    Because RVP dipped in form. Which was my point beforehand that whoever does better in the second half of the season is the one who usually gets the trophy. Bale started shining just before the midway mark e.g.

    Toure e.g. was being seen as City's best player last season and being touted for player of the year despite Aguero being the one dragging City out the dirt in the first half of last season.
    Actually Van Persie finished the season quite strongly. I remember it being very close that season, think Bale edged it having scored so many for a midfielder.

    Toure was in for a good shout but Suarez was just exceptional.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    Well everyone's going to get injured some time, question is how long for. But with the burden of having to carry the team it makes it an increasingly difficult task having to cover for Ozil, Walcott absences.



    Actually Van Persie finished the season quite strongly. I remember it being very close that season, think Bale edged it having scored so many for a midfielder.

    Toure was in for a good shout but Suarez was just exceptional.
    RVP finished the season strongly but he went a good run of games in poor form mid season while Bale was going HAM from then until the end of the season, Bale was also winning games single handedly for them so you'd have said that Bale finished the 2nd half of the season stronger. Which was why he got the award.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    RVP finished the season strongly but he went a good run of games in poor form mid season while Bale was going HAM from then until the end of the season, Bale was also winning games single handedly for them so you'd have said that Bale finished the 2nd half of the season stronger. Which was why he got the award.
    Yeah same could be said for RVP though as he was pretty much the reason United won the title and made the difference in most games. RVP scored equal goals first half and second half of the season, his goals were fairly well distributed.

    Anyway what you've said is what I meant about Sanchez and why he could be in with a shout. So far he's on track with Bale, Bale managed 9 goals first half and 12 second half, so Sanchez would need to hope he doesn't get more than a month-long injury as Bale only missed 2 games in the second half of the season.
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    Over the long term, only statistics matter.

    Was Thierry Henry a big game player?
    Did Keane have Vieira at Highbury 2004?
    Will Alexis Sanchez score next week?

    The bookies make a living out of selling 45% shots at 50%




    Pane makes a killing out of gambling, and he knows exactly what he's on about.
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    I love how Pane is now in the little Zurich-Wilf bromance
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    (Original post by pane123)
    I have been through his poor statistics over, and over, and over. I am not glossing over his goals and assists at all, nor have I at any point. Every statistic I have given for Hazard is per-90 mins, yet you insist on looking at only total goals and assists. On this basis, Bony is just as good as Aguero, as they scored the same number of goals last season.

    When we look at goal contribution per-90, we see that Hazard contributed 0.53 goals per match, which isn't particularly good. If we look only at non-penalty goals per-90, he managed 0.31 per match, which is OK but certainly nothing special.

    I will come back and quote every time I have mentioned Hazard's excellent dribbling but it could take a while, as I've acknowledged it quite a lot and I think you know that.
    I'm talking about in comparison to Willian. In the vast majority of your attacking statistics Hazard comes out on top, and yet you seemingly ignore/dismiss this. Hazard's assist and goal record is still superior to Willian's when you compare per-90 numbers, so I have no idea why you're banging on about totals as I have never claimed Hazard's goal scoring totals to be anything particularly special, even describing his finishing as lacking.

    So you keep saying, but I've yet to see anything to convince me that it isn't Fabregas. By looking at things like key passes and total shots, we get a clearer picture of a player's overall output. However, you are correct when you say that things like penultimate passes, or the pass before that, are not picked up in the statistics. Opta is aware of this, and uses things like player positional maps to try to make the 'attacking contribution' metric more accurate. While it is still in development, this is what the 'attacking contribution' table looked like after the first 7 games of the season:




    Basically, Opta acknowledges some of the limitations you have pointed out and have tried to do something about it. Maybe I'm giving them too much trust, but I reckon they know what they are doing and Fabregas is quite clearly your more attacking player.
    The image doesn't work.

    Although interestingly enough the algorithms Squawka use ("calculated using over 500,000,000 data points") to calculate the "attack score" and "total score" options on their comparison matrix, suggest Hazard is has had a greater influence last season than Willian, and this season than Fabregas. The EA PL Player Index also puts Hazard ahead of Fabregas for this season.

    You are mixing my words here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I had mentioned 'chances created' before my previous post. I am saying Willian gave more to Chelsea based on many things, not just chances created.
    Except the two are essentially the same stat? Only 'chances created' includes 'successful key passes' ie. assists, and why would you not compare how successful said key passes are? Particularly when said success has as meaningful outcome as a goal. That's like comparing shots missed, or tackles lost.

    And what are these "many things"? Seems to me it's only key passes/chances created (already covered Willian's lack of efficiency and the inconclusiveness of said statistics) and defensive contribution (which we agree on).

    I also compared the statistics of Oscar and Schurrle per-90 (ie. the two other attacking midfielders who were at Chelsea for the whole of the 13/14 season) to Hazard and Willian and the results were in fact quite interesting.

    In an attacking sense, Willian does still lead the way with the highest number of key passes and 'chance creation', however, he is in fact dead last when you compare the efficiency of said key passes as I did in my previous post (losing out to Oscar with 4.0% and Schurrle with 7.1% - ultimately Hazard is the most efficient of the four) - which is strange, if Willian's key passing/chance creation is as effective and influential as you say then how are his team mates more likely to assist a teammate with a key pass than he is? He came first in pass completion percent (86% to the other's 83%), comes third on assists, but last in goals scored per-90 with the lowest shot conversion percentage. He does well in both 'fouls suffered' and 'take ons', coming second in both, but Hazard blows him out of the water by scoring over double his total in both categories.

    However the results are more interesting when you look from a defensive perspective as Willian comes off worse than you'd expect. Both Oscar and Schurrle have a higher number of tackles won per 90, although in fairness Willian does just edge them in tackles won as a percentage, winning 50% of his tackles to Oscars 49% for instance. He comes last in aerial duels won (not going to fault him too much at 5ft9, although Hazard at 5ft8 does rank ahead of him). Both Oscar and Schurrle completed significantly more clearances than Willian, and Schurrle made more interceptions (and blocks, as the other three made zero).

    Which leads me to question whether or not your "evidence" even supports the claim of "Willian was more important to Chelsea last season than Hazard" if, in comparison to his teammates playing in the same position based on your evidence, he fails to come out on top? I would even go so far as to say Schurrle is a more worthy candidate for being "more important to Chelsea" from this evidence, not that I believe such a statement to be true.

    Also, I don't think you understand why these statistics exist. Why should whether or not the striker finished the shot decide whether or not the midfielder receives credit for his pass? It could be that Hazard makes unmissable assists, while Willian leaves the striker with a lot to do but you agreed that over thousands of minutes, these things level out.
    Exactly, these things level out over thousands of minutes, so we can agree that over thousands of minutes, Hazard's key passing was far more effective and influential than Willian's.

    Goals, and therefore assists, are rare in football but I agree that it would be good to know who is the more efficient passer, i.e. the player who creates more goal scoring opportunities. This method isn't perfect, but I think it's more accurate in telling us what we want to know:



    Over thousands of minutes, Willian was the more efficient passer, taking fewer attempts at making each key pass.
    Except key passes are not necessarily goal scoring opportunities?

    Don't particularly see the relevance of this when we have just established Hazard's (and Oscar's and Schurrle's) key passing is more efficient and influential. What can we deduce from this? Willian is more efficient at not being efficient?
 
 
 
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