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    And I really don't see why people started attacking paul514... Why does it matter how old he is? I'm almost 23. Still doing my undergraduate degree. Seen many people in their 30s on this forum. What's the big deal? It's a student forum - anyone who's a student or former student, for that matter is free to join, no?

    Personally, I don't agree with most of his views and vote "out", but he presented his arguments in a balanced way, without jumping to anyone's throat and just answering people's questions. Everyone's entitled to their own views and opinions, especially on such topic.

    On the side note of the referendum... It's really sad that such a great country like UK became so full with hateful, racist and sad people. Obviously I don't want to generalise but been observing varied forums, comments sections online and in general public opinions and that's what I've noticed.
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    Pro Euros would start a campaign to rejoin. President Trump will demand that England joins the Union and Hadrians wall will be rebuilt to keep out the Europhile scots.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Indeed but there is no large change to trade after a leave vote as we won't leave until negotiations are finished


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    Yes but credit ratings are an assessment of the risk of the government defaulting, so presumably expected outcomes could be factored into this?
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    (Original post by Alex from almanis)
    Yes but credit ratings are an assessment of the risk of the government defaulting, so presumably expected outcomes could be factored into this?
    If they genuinely believe that it would affect trade but they won't show there true position until 24th June or after


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    (Original post by lastlullabyy)
    And I really don't see why people started attacking paul514... Why does it matter how old he is? I'm almost 23. Still doing my undergraduate degree. Seen many people in their 30s on this forum. What's the big deal? It's a student forum - anyone who's a student or former student, for that matter is free to join, no?

    Personally, I don't agree with most of his views and vote "out", but he presented his arguments in a balanced way, without jumping to anyone's throat and just answering people's questions. Everyone's entitled to their own views and opinions, especially on such topic.

    On the side note of the referendum... It's really sad that such a great country like UK became so full with hateful, racist and sad people. Obviously I don't want to generalise but been observing varied forums, comments sections online and in general public opinions and that's what I've noticed.
    Thanks


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    (Original post by paul514)
    If they genuinely believe that it would affect trade but they won't show there true position until 24th June or after


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    Yes, which is why I asked if people thought the outcome of the referendum could affect credit rating
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    (Original post by Alex from almanis)
    Yes, which is why I asked if people thought the outcome of the referendum could affect credit rating
    And why people have said to you it depends on the economic effect. In my opinion it is likely to be zero.

    Since the referendum was called the uk economy has received more foreign investment than the period previous to that and have created more jobs than all the other eu countries combined.


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    We have been assuming the EU remains benign with respect to trade and the economy. But the EU could become more aggressive and after Brexit, start to give incentives for UK companies to move to the EU.

    For example, major car makers like BMW and Toyota have already said they might invest less in the UK after Brexit due to tariffs on exports to the EU. The EU could say to them that they should move production to the EU because it would be cheaper and easier and give them sweeteners like tax breaks and low interest loans which the EU can afford but the UK can't.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I always find it amusing that so called 'eurosceptics' have the utmost belief that this incompetent and unfair EU that we get such a bad deal from will turn around and give us whatever we want post exit.

    The EU made us rip up our trade deals with the commonwealth and the rest of the world when we joined. Provided the politicians act sensibly and show britain as a country open to deals and bilateral investment, we would create much stronger trade deals within 5 years. In the meantime, it wouldn't affect most people (except businesses would be free from pointless legislation). But you are right that there may be uncertainty, that's why imo the government should invest in our industries to show we have confidence, and if nessecary temporarily nationalise them - which the EU forbids.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The EU made us rip up our trade deals with the commonwealth and the rest of the world when we joined. Provided the politicians act sensibly and show britain as a country open to deals and bilateral investment, we would create much stronger trade deals within 5 years. In the meantime, it wouldn't affect most people (except businesses would be free from pointless legislation). But you are right that there may be uncertainty, that's why imo the government should invest in our industries to show we have confidence, and if nessecary temporarily nationalise them - which the EU forbids.
    I think its a big mistake to say we can offset losing business to the EU by getting more business elsewhere. Any business will tell you its hard to get new customers and getting new customers is much more expensive than keeping existing ones. The rest of the world is not going to jiust let British businesses take their customers, British businesses will be up against established businesses in places like China and Canada and going into new countries is going to cost a lot of money.

    Nationalisation is not going to work for most businesses affected by Brexit. Its the big exporters to the EU like Toyota and BMW that will be most affected and I doubt they would want to be nationalised.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The EU made us rip up our trade deals with the commonwealth and the rest of the world when we joined. Provided the politicians act sensibly and show britain as a country open to deals and bilateral investment, we would create much stronger trade deals within 5 years. In the meantime, it wouldn't affect most people (except businesses would be free from pointless legislation). But you are right that there may be uncertainty, that's why imo the government should invest in our industries to show we have confidence, and if nessecary temporarily nationalise them - which the EU forbids.
    ...We got better trade deals. We werent the sick man of europe for nothing! Are you really telling me we can (quickly) negotiate, better trade deals than present with india, brazil etc? Youre having a laugh

    The Leaders of all the Commonwealth countries have urged britain to stay in the EU.

    Pointless legislation...yeah its all completely pointless isnt it? Lets get rid of all H&S standards and leave the free market to it. Im sure theyve got our best interests at heart. Christ.

    As i've repeatedly shown you with examples the EU does not forbid nationalisation.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think its a big mistake to say we can offset losing business to the EU by getting more business elsewhere. Any business will tell you its hard to get new customers and getting new customers is much more expensive than keeping existing ones. The rest of the world is not going to jiust let British businesses take their customers, British businesses will be up against established businesses in places like China and Canada and going into new countries is going to cost a lot of money.

    Nationalisation is not going to work for most businesses affected by Brexit. Its the big exporters to the EU like Toyota and BMW that will be most affected and I doubt they would want to be nationalised.

    Well we have a trade deficit with the EU, so they should be pushing to continue trade with us. However, I know that is unlikely to happen since the EU is really really bad at making trade deals and wants to force red tape on its consumers - but that's the biggest reason we need to get out quickly. Of course there are risks, as with anything, but we would in the same situation after just a few years as any other country. And you don't seem to understand that trade deals work both ways.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    ...We got better trade deals. We werent the sick man of europe for nothing! Are you really telling me we can (quickly) negotiate, better trade deals than present with india, brazil etc? Youre having a laugh
    The EU has stopped us trading with everyone except their own declining market and any deals that they can (after decades) make. So yes, we can regain our seat on the WTO and make deals in Great Britain's interest, not the EU's.
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Pointless legislation...yeah its all completely pointless isnt it? Lets get rid of all H&S standards and leave the free market to it. Im sure theyve got our best interests at heart. Christ.
    British businesses have to deal with hours of red tape. No government who scraps meaningful laws, like health+safety, would get re-elected. But you have just admitted that you don't believe Britain is good enough to be sovereign and make her own laws, instead unaccountable, appointed bureaucrats in Brussels should. That is why I cannot vote to remain.

    (Original post by Davij038)
    As i've repeatedly shown you with examples the EU does not forbid nationalisation.
    Yes it does. What examples?? or do you mean that article on the pro-eu website that had no evidence and was simply denying facts.


    And your ignorance is really beyond ridiculous.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The EU has stopped us trading with everyone except their own declining market and any deals that they can (after decades) make. So yes, we can regain our seat on the WTO and make deals in Great Britain's interest, not the EU's.
    And you've got the nerve to call me ignorant. You are living in Daily express crazy land.

    We trade all over the world, how else do you think we've been shipping weapons to the Saudis thus far or doing trade deals with india and china?


    British businesses have to deal with hours of red tape. No government who scraps meaningful laws, like health+safety, would get re-elected. But you have just admitted that you don't believe Britain is good enough to be sovereign and make her own laws, instead unaccountable, appointed bureaucrats in Brussels should. That is why I cannot vote to remain.
    I think all countries should adhere to the same laws. So we're going to disband the civil service and have an elected judiciary now are we? This is like Rousseau for plebs.


    Yes it does. What examples?? or do you mean that article on the pro-eu website that had no evidence and was simply denying facts.

    And your ignorance is really beyond ridiculous.



    In law

    Art. 345 TFEU states “The Treaties shall in no way prejudice the rules in Member States (MS) governing the system of property ownership.”

    In Practise:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30599821
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    A huge sinkhole would spontaneously open up running from east London to Liverpool, tens of millions of lives would be lost immediately

    The remaining population on either side would immediately become embroiled in a violent and prolonged civil war .. both sides harnessing the power of projectile weaponry to try and fling large pieces of rock and debris across the 73 mile chasm at the opposing side

    The rest of the world would look on in schaudenfraude and Juncker and his friends would use some of the billions of £'s we once gave them to create the worlds largest floating stadium arena. A 2 mile wide buoyancy stand which seats up to 180,000 persons. One would be placed on either side of the divide in the Sea for EU members to access and watch the civil war unfold and learn the harsh lessons of leaving the dictatorship / Sorry EU
    sigh
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    (Original post by paul514)
    You need to see a doctor

    Ironic cos you're like the TSR grandpa
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    (Original post by Alex from almanis)
    Do people think the government credit rating could fall if the UK leaves the EU?
    If there is another recession yes.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The EU has stopped us trading with everyone except their own declining market and any deals that they can (after decades) make. So yes, we can regain our seat on the WTO and make deals in Great Britain's interest, not the EU's.
    A complete lie. We only recently made a deal with China, for example.

    British businesses have to deal with hours of red tape.
    Give me an example, and how the UK Government would reduce it.

    No government who scraps meaningful laws, like health+safety, would get re-elected.
    Adorable.

    No government who starves the NHS of cash and proposes to turn every school into an academy would get re-elected.

    But you have just admitted that you don't believe Britain is good enough to be sovereign and make her own laws, instead unaccountable, appointed bureaucrats in Brussels should. That is why I cannot vote to remain.
    EU officials are not unaccountable. There's a considerable degree of oversight.
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    (Original post by james813)
    Well we have a trade deficit with the EU, so they should be pushing to continue trade with us. However, I know that is unlikely to happen since the EU is really really bad at making trade deals and wants to force red tape on its consumers - but that's the biggest reason we need to get out quickly.
    Utter rot.

    That 'red tape' is the underpinning of the Single Market and allows the vigorous competition that helps European trade. Much of it is requested by business.

    Can you give me an example of such stifling bureaucracy? :rolleyes:

    The EU can actually help through is rules, for example by allowing a UK company to register a trademark just once for the whole EU, rather than doing it 28 times.

    And the UK government is at least as guilty as Brussels. Have you heard of gold plating? It's damaging and stifling to business, caused by Westminster, and then they blame Brussels for it.

    In 2014 the World Bank noted the UK as in the top 97% of countries helpful to business - ahead of some countries not in the EU.
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    Ironic cos you're like the TSR grandpa
    And you're the local dunce who thinks age is relevant.


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