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Your degree and your career aspirations - how do they match up? watch

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Seems way too low for a newly qualified..

    Most city (London based) firms are paying in the region of £55-75k on qualification (US firms pay more but they don't do your specialisation of interest, I don't think). Provincial firms are more £30-40k on qualification.

    The average seems a tad high, I don't think many places outside of London will shell that much out to regular solicitors (i.e. non-partners), but then again it would be achievable 5+ years PQE at a decent firm in London.


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    See the average starting salary for a Scottish solicitor is £20-30k.

    I know I thought that too about the average salary, as i would be extremely happy with anything over £60k after 5+ years of work.

    Yes medical law is quite a specialised area of the law, but you would not actually be working within a firm but rather as an in-house lawyer as part of a company/organisation (in this case the hospital itself).

    Careers in medical defence law are more common in the US where hospitals are privatised and the doctors have to pay hefty insurance prices.
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    (Original post by evalilyXOX)
    See the average starting salary for a Scottish solicitor is £20-30k.

    I know I thought that too about the average salary, as i would be extremely happy with anything over £60k after 5+ years of work.

    Yes medical law is quite a specialised area of the law, but you would not actually be working within a firm but rather as an in-house lawyer as part of a company/organisation (in this case the hospital itself).

    Careers in medical defence law are more common in the US where hospitals are privatised and the doctors have to pay hefty insurance prices.
    You said 'on qualification' which is after 2 years of training, hence the £30k+ range. I'm well aware most Scottish firms pay in the £18 to low £20s for first year trainees.

    Yeah, I understand that but it's quite rare to train 'in-house'. Most often you'd train in private practice (at a firm) then qualify as a solicitor before moving in-house. Hence why it's a good idea to find firms with decent practice areas surrounding healthcare.

    As for £60k 5+ years after qualifying, that seems somewhat reasonable but I'm not sure whether in-house salaries ramp up as much as private practice ones do.

    EDIT: Ok, it's more £45-55k in-house in Scotland after 5 years.
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    I suppose mine is retrospective:

    Degree: Business Management
    Career: I.T.
    Expected starting salary: Thought it would be about 30k (37.5k now with inflation). Was miles off, much like others here it seems
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    (Original post by Reue)
    I suppose mine is retrospective:

    Degree: Business Management
    Career: I.T.
    Expected starting salary: Thought it would be about 30k (37.5k now with inflation). Was miles off, much like others here it seems
    Was eagerly awaiting your input, can always count on you being in a thread like this :')

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    Degree: Comp Sci
    Careers: To be quite honest I'm not set on a particular job at the moment, still looking around. Will be something software engineering related or some sort of developer, probably.
    Pay: £26-28k would be a good start
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Was eagerly awaiting your input, can always count on you being in a thread like this :')

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    Can't resist anything financial
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    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    If you watch the debate, you'll find the very first statement he makes is "I'm assuming nobody here just wants to make a lot of money, because then you'd go to Goldman. This is a debate for idealistic students."

    Please go elsewhere with your shaming rhetoric. I care. I just know that I am very well suited to corporate work environments and I know I can make a hell of a difference if I succeed there. More than anywhere else.

    It might make you feel warm and fuzzy pulling a splinter out of a kid's finger or building a house in Africa for a single family but every large scale project worth doing needs finance and I can support those things that actually matter, instead of piling into field that is already overly saturated with applicants (like medicine) and people who are in it because they want society to think they're kind, considerate and decent people.

    I'll have to carry the judgement of people like you for my whole career and it's silly because it's unjust.
    My heart really bleeds for you because you're so misunderstood.

    Pulling splinters out children's fingers? You really have no clue at all about the work of doctors and nurses. A great deal of us handle life and death situations and chronic disease - day in day out. You play with numbers and no it doesn't make me feel ''fuzzy'' seeing a toddler on a ventilator - and that's not why I do it, to feel ''fuzzy''.

    I was asked why people go into banking. I said for money. No one's proved me wrong yet - the only people who have replied have gone off on tangents and tried to make out that I'm saying banking is evil etc - no where have I said that.

    I was stating something about people's motivations towards careers and your little speech about you being able to give back through banking more than a Doctor can through clinical practice really doesn't wash with me at all and just makes you sound totally deluded. Is that REALLY why you wanted that career - to give your salary to good causes? Would you have dared to say that in an interview? Don't patronize me with that.

    People who have a strong calling to help others follow careers that allow them to feel fulfilled on a daily basis and see their efforts making a real difference in people's lives. They don't just throw a bit of their salary towards a charity each month to salve their conscience. It's not all about money either - 99% of elderly people I've cared for just want someone to talk to or a hand to hold - throwing money at some issues isn't the solution. We've got plenty of resources and equipment where I work - that's not our issue, we just need people who actually care.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    I suppose mine is retrospective:

    Degree: Business Management
    Career: I.T.
    Expected starting salary: Thought it would be about 30k (37.5k now with inflation). Was miles off, much like others here it seems
    lol reue why do you always get so spiteful and upset when many students correctly, identify there are quite a few jobs that pay at least 30k starting salary and aim to achieve that?
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    lol reue why do you always get so spiteful and upset when many students correctly, identify there are quite a few jobs that pay at least 30k starting salary and aim to achieve that?
    Spiteful and upset are certainly the wrong words to use.

    I just think alot of students have an unrealistic expectation of starting and early salary levels.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Spiteful and upset are certainly the wrong words to use.

    I just think alot of students have an unrealistic expectation of starting and early salary levels.
    you sound upset when you reply to these sorts of threads, maybe you come across that way on here but dont actually mean to

    yes but you literally post on every single thread every created wrt career aspirations, telling the students they are delusional. id guess they arent, seeing as there are literally thousands of 30k starting salary jobs for graduates. most people here have put their realistic salaries too, which are well under 30k.
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    Degree: Biomedical science
    Jobs/ Career of interest: Used to want to go into research, but since being at uni I really do not want to go into science. I just want to live a simple and relativity stress free life.
    Graduate salary expected: No idea, but 20k or over gross salary and I'm happy.
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    OP what are you thinking for yourself?
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    you sound upset when you reply to these sorts of threads, maybe you come across that way on here but dont actually mean to
    I don't think I've ever been upset as a result of an online forum thread!

    (Original post by welcometoib)
    yes but you literally post on every single thread every created wrt career aspirations, telling the students they are delusional. id guess they arent, seeing as there are literally thousands of 30k starting salary jobs for graduates. most people here have put their realistic salaries too, which are well under 30k.
    I work from personal experience (mine and peer's) and reported averages.

    Indeed; most are very realistic. I commented that my own at that age was not, and others (not all) have posted equally unrealistic figures.
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    (Original post by KatieBlogger)
    Pulling splinters out children's fingers? You really have no clue at all about the work of doctors and nurses. A great deal of us handle life and death situations and chronic disease - day in day out. You play with numbers and no it doesn't make me feel ''fuzzy'' seeing a toddler on a ventilator - and that's not why I do it, to feel ''fuzzy''.
    Like I said, one life. One family. One difference at a time. It might make you feel good (that you're caring) -- and that's why you do it -- but the point still stands that you can save more lives donating to charities that provide medicine for people who don't have it across the world. What are you actually adding by becoming a doctor? There are way too many applicants for the field and they're all kindhearted people who want to help. By piling on you actually don't add anything they would have. It's an over-saturated field and there isn't a good reason why it should be pursued because it's not in need.

    I want to help as MANY people as I can. And absolutely with LOTS of money I can do that. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I considered medicine. I considered nursing. I considered non-profits, but I'm convinced earning to give will allow me to have a much bigger impact on people's lives.

    People who have a strong calling to help others follow careers that allow them to feel fulfilled on a daily basis and see their efforts making a real difference in people's lives. They don't just throw a bit of their salary towards a charity each month to salve their conscience. It's not all about money either - 99% of elderly people I've cared for just want someone to talk to or a hand to hold - throwing money at some issues isn't the solution. We've got plenty of resources and equipment where I work - that's not our issue, we just need people who actually care.
    Yes. I will not get to hold a kid's hand who was dying and I nursed back to health. Again, fuzzy feelings of feeling *you* did something... that 20 other applicants could have done too. How many people can actually donate to employ 6 non profit workers to go hand out medicines? Do you think you can do that on a doctor's salary?

    was stating something about people's motivations towards careers and your little speech about you being able to give back through banking more than a Doctor can through clinical practice really doesn't wash with me at all and just makes you sound totally deluded. Is that REALLY why you wanted that career - to give your salary to good causes? Would you have dared to say that in an interview? Don't patronize me with that.
    Yes it is why i'm doing it. I wish I couldn't say I care less what you think but I do care and that's why I'm annoyed.
    What I say in an interview and what I want privately are not the same thing. It's none of the bank's business what I do with my money. That's a poor argument.

    https://80000hours.org/2012/08/how-m...a-doctor-save/
    https://80000hours.org/2012/09/how-m...ginal-returns/
    https://80000hours.org/2012/09/how-m...eplacement-84/

    Nice speech. The numbers speak for themselves.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    I don't think I've ever been upset as a result of an online forum thread!



    I work from personal experience (mine and peer's) and reported averages.

    Indeed; most are very realistic. I commented that my own at that age was not, and others (not all) have posted equally unrealistic figures.
    did you feel you deserved that salary at 21 because you had a degree? or were you on the exec of a society, a campus ambassador, doing voluntary work, getting high 2.1s in your modules, and developing your commercial awareness from year 1 of your degree? people who do the above are extremely realistic, students on here do this stuff and hence feel extremely comfortable with the salary they feel they deserve. there is a difference between the students who do the above, and the ones who think they will earn 30k because they have a degree.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    did you feel you deserved that salary at 21 because you had a degree? or were you on the exec of a society, a campus ambassador, doing voluntary work, getting high 2.1s in your modules, and developing your commercial awareness from year 1 of your degree?
    Probably about 50%


    (Original post by welcometoib)
    people who do the above are extremely realistic, students on here do this stuff and hence feel extremely comfortable with the salary they feel they deserve. there is a difference between the students who do the above, and the ones who think they will earn 30k because they have a degree.
    I totally agree.
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    Degree: Biomedical science
    Jobs/ Career of interest: Used to want to go into research, but since being at uni I really do not want to go into science. I just want to live a simple and relativity stress free life.
    Graduate salary expected: No idea, but 20k or over gross salary and I'm happy.
    I don't think simplicity and stress-free go hand in hand in a single job unless you have in-demand skills. What do you plan to do when you graduate? Will you actively search for something that you like or will you just live at home?
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    (Original post by KatieBlogger)
    My heart really bleeds for you because you're so misunderstood.

    Pulling splinters out children's fingers? You really have no clue at all about the work of doctors and nurses. A great deal of us handle life and death situations and chronic disease - day in day out. You play with numbers and no it doesn't make me feel ''fuzzy'' seeing a toddler on a ventilator - and that's not why I do it, to feel ''fuzzy''.

    I was asked why people go into banking. I said for money. No one's proved me wrong yet - the only people who have replied have gone off on tangents and tried to make out that I'm saying banking is evil etc - no where have I said that.

    I was stating something about people's motivations towards careers and your little speech about you being able to give back through banking more than a Doctor can through clinical practice really doesn't wash with me at all and just makes you sound totally deluded. Is that REALLY why you wanted that career - to give your salary to good causes? Would you have dared to say that in an interview? Don't patronize me with that.

    People who have a strong calling to help others follow careers that allow them to feel fulfilled on a daily basis and see their efforts making a real difference in people's lives. They don't just throw a bit of their salary towards a charity each month to salve their conscience. It's not all about money either - 99% of elderly people I've cared for just want someone to talk to or a hand to hold - throwing money at some issues isn't the solution. We've got plenty of resources and equipment where I work - that's not our issue, we just need people who actually care
    Lol, most future doctors are going into it because it pays well.. It's not the entire reason, no, but I guarantee you if consultant physicians or surgeons weren't paid as well as they are much fewer people would pursue or even think about considering it as a career. Aspiring med students here on TSR, sixthform kids IRL, current med students are perfectly aware that they can make a pretty penny as a doctor whilst still having a semblance (rather the image of) 'selflessness' or 'admiration'.

    I think you need to realise not everyone pursues a career for 'noble' reasons. Most people's (I'm speaking average) motivations are mostly selfish (as is human nature); in the form of: 'prestige/accolade', 'it pays the bills', 'I want to win', 'I like the work' that kind of thing. Drilling down on motives, stripping out the idealistic interview answers, the average Joe choosing a career will focus introspectively - they choose jobs, career paths and degrees because of mostly superfluous reasons baked in personal desires.

    Which is why I don't see the need for you to call bankers 'robots'. If you're going to call them robots, call 95% of the UK 'robots' too - because for the most part, they don't care, all they're doing is going into work each day to get a pay check at the end of the month to finance their sphere of existence.

    What I can only conclude is that you want to feel 'righteous' for choosing your career, in that process you look down on other careers because in your mind they don't contribute to the 'selflessness' ideal. You think that all nurses, doctors, counsellors are the 'true heros' because of what they choose to do with their lives. I'm afraid I have to tell you: at the end of the day they're all just trying to get by. Sure some people genuinely find 'joy' from their work but as long as we're in this economic machine we still need to work (in any job) to live.

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    Princepieman


    These articles show rather rigorously that in terms of lives saved a whole career as a doctor summates to a £10000 donation to the right charity:

    https://80000hours.org/2012/08/how-m...a-doctor-save/
    https://80000hours.org/2012/09/how-m...ginal-returns/
    https://80000hours.org/2012/09/how-m...eplacement-84/

    They make a really compelling case, I think, against people going into medicine as altruists. Absolutely righteous and wanting to feel like you're making a tangible difference--- needing to see it-- are good reasons.

    She gave a good argument in 'most just want somebody to talk to', implying 'save lives' isn't all doctors do. But
    1) Bigger issues first. Don't move goalposts
    2) She used to be a nurse. If that was the real motivation then she could have done that in her old profession
    3) There are thousands of people who would do what she does and so her personal addition to the NHS doesn't actually seem to make a difference. If you really want to make a difference, you need to contribute to fields that aren't being paid enough attention. Clearly practicing as a doctor isn't it right now.
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    (Original post by welcometoib)
    you sound upset when you reply to these sorts of threads, maybe you come across that way on here but dont actually mean to

    yes but you literally post on every single thread every created wrt career aspirations, telling the students they are delusional. id guess they arent, seeing as there are literally thousands of 30k starting salary jobs for graduates. most people here have put their realistic salaries too, which are well under 30k.
    There are probably a few thousand jobs that pay that amount. But there are hundreds of thousands of graduates - both from the UK and the EU (and even beyond - considering those high paying jobs can often be filled by non-EU applicants through work permits).

    The reality is less than 3% of UK graduates will earn over £35k when they leave university.

    This place has got a higher proportion of people who are clearly career focused and ambitious, but the reality is the majority of people are likely to be disappointed if they expect a salary of £35k or above within a year of graduating.


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