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    (Original post by h333)
    Thanks to the response brother/sister.

    The word shia as for as I know now just means follower/supporter/helper of another. And I don't in particular agree to using it as an ideology. If you say the word shia like say shia of the prophet s.a.w then that is fine to me as it will be same as follower. But if one is referring to ideology I do not agree as they may differ from one to another.

    The word imam is used but I don't see any relevance to the 12 imams and also the word has been used in bad and good context.

    As for your last point about the statement, honestly I do not agree to the Shia view on this event. This is because I believe completely that our prophet s.a.w completed his prophethood fulfilling the deen Islam and he would have never left us hanging without providing something so important. Also Allah would never had let that happen during his prophethood as he fulfilled Islam and would not leave us in confusion. Hence, I do not want to discuss about that further.
    Salam

    Shia isn't an ideology, and you're correct in saying that it means to follow. But however, it can be used to represent a specific group of people. For instance, Shia of Ali, means those who follow Ali as their leader. Thus, denoting a specific group.

    An imam is a leader, and the Holy Prophet has indeed said there will be 12 leaders after me. In our belief, the 12 imams are the 12 leaders that the Prophet was referring to, as they were appointed by God and they're part of his Ahlulbayt, who we are already ordered to follow, from numerous hadiths. Thus, there's a link.

    Respectfully brother/sister, I wasn't giving a 'shia' view on the last part, rather just stating a fact and then giving my opinion at the end. Indeed, the Holy Prophet did fulfill his prophet hood, but as stated in the hadith, he was interrupted and frankly got angry after that. It's also vital to note that he wanted to inform us, but was interrupted. Notice how the exact same wording has been used in two different yet clearly related hadith, which are:

    Follow Quran and Ahlulbayt, and you will never go astray

    I will write something for you, that if you follow you will never go astray (the reply was) The Quran is enough.

    Hopefully, you can see that the only thing missing from the second one is Ahlulbayt, which is why even some sunni scholars have said that the Prophet was going to reveal the Ahlulbayt.

    Last thing on this specific event, (of course you don't have to answer this), it honestly seems like you don't believe that the whole Calamity of Thursday incident (which caused Ibn Abbas to cry to the extent that the stones beneath him became soaked) occurred. I apologize if this isn't the case, but it is clear that the Prophet wanted to give the companions something that will ensure they will never go astray, but was stopped. From reading your response which says that the Prophet would never leave us in such a state, is rather contradictory, as something that was really important, clearly wasn't said to the companions?
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Salam

    Shia isn't an ideology, and you're correct in saying that it means to follow. But however, it can be used to represent a specific group of people. For instance, Shia of Ali, means those who follow Ali as their leader. Thus, denoting a specific group.

    An imam is a leader, and the Holy Prophet has indeed said there will be 12 leaders after me. In our belief, the 12 imams are the 12 leaders that the Prophet was referring to, as they were appointed by God and they're part of his Ahlulbayt, who we are already ordered to follow, from numerous hadiths. Thus, there's a link.

    Respectfully brother/sister, I wasn't giving a 'shia' view on the last part, rather just stating a fact and then giving my opinion at the end. Indeed, the Holy Prophet did fulfill his prophet hood, but as stated in the hadith, he was interrupted and frankly got angry after that. It's also vital to note that he wanted to inform us, but was interrupted. Notice how the exact same wording has been used in two different yet clearly related hadith, which are:

    Follow Quran and Ahlulbayt, and you will never go astray

    I will write something for you, that if you follow you will never go astray (the reply was) The Quran is enough.

    Hopefully, you can see that the only thing missing from the second one is Ahlulbayt, which is why even some sunni scholars have said that the Prophet was going to reveal the Ahlulbayt.

    Last thing on this specific event, (of course you don't have to answer this), it honestly seems like you don't believe that the whole Calamity of Thursday incident (which caused Ibn Abbas to cry to the extent that the stones beneath him became soaked) occurred. I apologize if this isn't the case, but it is clear that the Prophet wanted to give the companions something that will ensure they will never go astray, but was stopped. From reading your response which says that the Prophet would never leave us in such a state, is rather contradictory, as something that was really important, clearly wasn't said to the companions?
    Wa'alaikum Asalaam

    I understand you. However, I would not like to state my opinions on matters to do with events like that as the scholars are more educated on those matters. In Shaa Allah I am trying my best to stick to the Sunnah of the prophet s.a.w and the Qur'an which ofcourse his household followed and so same in both ways to me.

    I do still believe as all Muslims do (hopefully) that the prophet s.a.w had covered everything that was important to us to know during his lifetime/prophet hood. Hence any bid'ah etc In Shaa Allah trying to avoid.

    I would like to just end with a dua: may Allah keep us all on the straight path and increase our level of Imaan. Ameen
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Salamunalaykum to all

    I've read in brief replies, inshAllah after my exams i will get to responding in full!
    That's cool bro, TSR isn't priority :yy:
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    (Original post by h333)
    Wa'alaikum Asalaam

    I understand you. However, I would not like to state my opinions on matters to do with events like that as the scholars are more educated on those matters. In Shaa Allah I am trying my best to stick to the Sunnah of the prophet s.a.w and the Qur'an which ofcourse his household followed and so same in both ways to me.

    I do still believe as all Muslims do (hopefully) that the prophet s.a.w had covered everything that was important to us to know during his lifetime/prophet hood. Hence any bid'ah etc In Shaa Allah trying to avoid.

    I would like to just end with a dua: may Allah keep us all on the straight path and increase our level of Imaan. Ameen
    That's fair enough about the scholars, in fact, that's the reply of one of my friends to me when we were discussing a different issue.

    Yes, I agree that the Prophet covered pretty much everything, but all I am saying that it's a shame that He was interrupted and disobeyed just before his death. To me, it's not much of what He missed out, as we already know to follow Quran and Ahlulbayt and we have indications of who they are.

    However, it's the fact that just before he's about to die, he was disobeyed and angered, such that he ordered some companions to leave. The way He was treated, is my issue, and it was so bad that it caused Ibn Abbas to cry such that rocks beneath him were soaked, when he remembered what happened.

    Normally, with such incidents I discuss and then close it, but this one does truly sadden me, how on His own death bed, the same man who even God and all the angels send their salutations upon, even the Quran commands everyone to obey Him, they still disobeyed and angered him.

    Your sincerity to stick to the Sunnah of the Prophet is indeed admirable, and inshallah Allah will not only guide us to it, but most importantly keep us on the true path of Islam. Ameen.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    That's fair enough about the scholars, in fact, that's the reply of one of my friends to me when we were discussing a different issue.

    Yes, I agree that the Prophet covered pretty much everything, but all I am saying that it's a shame that He was interrupted and disobeyed just before his death. To me, it's not much of what He missed out, as we already know to follow Quran and Ahlulbayt and we have indications of who they are.

    However, it's the fact that just before he's about to die, he was disobeyed and angered, such that he ordered some companions to leave. The way He was treated, is my issue, and it was so bad that it caused Ibn Abbas to cry such that rocks beneath him were soaked, when he remembered what happened.

    Normally, with such incidents I discuss and then close it, but this one does truly sadden me, how on His own death bed, the same man who even God and all the angels send their salutations upon, even the Quran commands everyone to obey Him, they still disobeyed and angered him.

    Your sincerity to stick to the Sunnah of the Prophet is indeed admirable, and inshallah Allah will not only guide us to it, but most importantly keep us on the true path of Islam. Ameen.
    Jazak Allah khair brother/sister and ameen.

    Don't be too disheartened, I will surely look into the matter In Shaa Allah. But I can't also criticise those who the prophet S.A.W loved dearly.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    In terms of fiqh, he would follow his own ijtihad due to the absence of any other option.
    Interesting. So, in the absence of any "official" rulings or interpretations, and individual's own reasoning, based on their own interpretation of the content of the Quran, is valid and acceptable.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    If he holds no sect specific interpretation of ayaat from the Quran in that he understands it as the vast majority of groups do, he is Sunni by default (hence the term, ahlus-sunnah wal-jama'ah).
    So simply following the content of the Quran, with no other input or influence, makes one a Sunni.

    I wonder if this view is shared by followers of other sects?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So simply following the content of the Quran, with no other input or influence, makes one a Sunni.

    I wonder if this view is shared by followers of other sects?
    I believe I have already gave my opinion on this question.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So simply following the content of the Quran, with no other input or influence, makes one a Sunni.

    I wonder if this view is shared by followers of other sects?
    Well , i disagree with that, and i'll explain in full after my exams.

    But i hardly think its surprising for one of a sect or madhab to say that about their own madhab or sect.

    Also, numbers do not matter. It's an appeal to popularity.

    The division and demographic of both sunni's and shia's has little to do with truth, and more to do with politics.

    Even for Iran, it had little to do with truth, and more to do with politics influencing religion.

    Even for christianity, even for Judaism, Hinduism.

    The fact we have so few Jews, and so many christians has little to do with the truthfulness of jews, and the truth of christians, and more to do with politics.
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    (Original post by h333)
    x
    Salamunalaykum,

    It is a belief among both sunni's and shia's that Imam Mahdi a.s is from his descendents, and he will be the leader of muslims not just in the middle east, but the imam of the entire ummah worldwide and globally. Not only that, but Jesus Christ pbuh will pray behind him (in authentic hadiths), obedience to Imam Mahdi a.s will become wajib upon every muslim, and to disobey or disbelieve in him is disbelieving in Rasullah s.a.w

    So imagine, a man who will be the leader of the entire Ummah, bring peace and prosperity and create a Utopia in the entire world, have even the likes of Jesus Christ peace be upon him praying behind him, is not mentioned by name or explicitly in the Quran.

    Imagine if when he appears, someone states that they will not obey him because they could not find his name in the Quran?

    Allah swt by his wisdom has chosen to mention things explicitly, and other things refer to them in a more general way, and ask us to obey what is said by Rasullah s.a.w

    By his wisdom, he knows why he has done so. Among the reasons could be the preservation of the Quran among other reasons.

    We refer to Rasullah s.a.w to elucidate on the Quran.

    Rejecting a genuine mutawattir hadith can be seen as paramount or similar to rejecting an ayah of the Quran.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Salamunalaykum,

    It is a belief among both sunni's and shia's that Imam Mahdi a.s is from his descendents, and he will be the leader of muslims not just in the middle east, but the imam of the entire ummah worldwide and globally. Not only that, but Jesus Christ pbuh will pray behind him (in authentic hadiths), obedience to Imam Mahdi a.s will become wajib upon every muslim, and to disobey or disbelieve in him is disbelieving in Rasullah s.a.w

    So imagine, a man who will be the leader of the entire Ummah, bring peace and prosperity and create a Utopia in the entire world, have even the likes of Jesus Christ peace be upon him praying behind him, is not mentioned by name or explicitly in the Quran.

    Imagine if when he appears, someone states that they will not obey him because they could not find his name in the Quran?

    Allah swt by his wisdom has chosen to mention things explicitly, and other things refer to them in a more general way, and ask us to obey what is said by Rasullah s.a.w

    By his wisdom, he knows why he has done so. Among the reasons could be the preservation of the Quran among other reasons.

    We refer to Rasullah s.a.w to elucidate on the Quran.

    Rejecting a genuine mutawattir hadith can be seen as paramount or similar to rejecting an ayah of the Quran.
    Wa'alaikum Asalaam brother Jazak Allah Khair.

    Yes I know that Al-Mahdi will come In shaa Allah. But I am sure that there is difference on him between Sunni and Shias (please correct me if this is not the case). As I was reading on the Shia beliefs and they somehow believe that he disappeared or something and then will appear in the right time etc where as I always believed that he will be born and is not living.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Interesting. So, in the absence of any "official" rulings or interpretations, and individual's own reasoning, based on their own interpretation of the content of the Quran, is valid and acceptable.
    In the scenario that you presented, there would frankly be no other option. Ijtihad was always reserved for cases where some extent of judgement had to be exercised by necessity; the example you provided is one where the individual would seek to understand and derive rulings based on whatever his mind can deduce, due to the absence of any guidelines or resources.

    (Original post by QE2)
    So simply following the content of the Quran, with no other input or influence, makes one a Sunni.

    I wonder if this view is shared by followers of other sects?
    Ignoring that little wooden spoon in your cauldron...:teehee:

    I answer yes to this question. Being a Sunni is the default, hence why Sunnis are (and always have been) the vast majority of Muslims. Other groups came into being and were defined and labelled in accordance to their differences. Some of these differences arose from politics, others arose from abandoning Islamic obligation (such as the prohibition of drinking alcohol and the payment of zakah), others arose from adopting deviant beliefs in 'aqeedah which took them beyond Islam's definitions, and so on.
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    I agree with most things ash92:) says on here as long as it does not go against the Sunnah and the Qur'an if you know what I mean. Hence I rest my case here. Peace guys it was nice having some discussions though.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    In the scenario that you presented, there would frankly be no other option. Ijtihad was always reserved for cases where some extent of judgement had to be exercised by necessity; the example you provided is one where the individual would seek to understand and derive rulings based on whatever his mind can deduce, due to the absence of any guidelines or resources.
    So the validity and acceptability of interpretation or understanding isn't necessarily a function of "scholarship". Those arrived at through necessity can be acceptable. Therefore, there is no objective reason why individuals can't arrive at their own interpretations, in general.

    I answer yes to this question. Being a Sunni is the default, hence why Sunnis are (and always have been) the vast majority of Muslims. Other groups came into being and were defined and labelled in accordance to their differences.
    An appeal to popularity fallacy is never a good argument.
    It would seem that, objectively, Quranist would be the default position. Although I still don't see what's wrong with just "Muslim", with no qualifier - I suppose that they are essentially the same thing.

    Some of these differences arose from politics, others arose from abandoning Islamic obligation (such as the prohibition of drinking alcohol and the payment of zakah), others arose from adopting deviant beliefs in 'aqeedah which took them beyond Islam's definitions, and so on.
    The "no True Muslim" fallacy doesn't work. Especially when every faction raises the same argument.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So simply following the content of the Quran, with no other input or influence, makes one a Sunni.

    I wonder if this view is shared by followers of other sects?
    Ahlul Quran = Ahlus-Sunnah

    It's a general principle in Islam that one remains a Muslim even if one does not do key obligations or believe in key beliefs simply because of ignorance even after believing that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger and Servant of Allah, just the same way it is okay for Muslims to not understand some of the verses of the Qur'an.

    Theoretically there can be Sunnis among the Quranists, because the only reason for some in not accepting the Sunnah is their ignorance. Likewise there can be believers among the Ahlul-Kitab because the only reason they don't accept that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last and universal God's Messenger is because of ignorance of his existence or true Seerah. Also likewise there may be Shia among the Ahlul Bida' because the only reason for them not rejecting the Khilafah of the most righteous companions of the Prophet (AS) is their ignorance of the true teachings of Shia Islam. (No offense to any Muslim sect meant)

    While one cannot be a Shia while not yet rejecting the Righteous Khulafah (I.e. being a Shia necessitates being a "Rafidi" ), one can still be a Sunni even without following all the commandments of the Prophet (sal) - because being a Sunni just means not rejecting any of the Prophetic methodologies and traditions. For example I might not be currently following a commandment of the Prophet (sal) - but I still accept all authenticated teachings from him to be tru and subscribe myself to the congregation of the Muslims (neither innovating anything or accepting any innovation). Being a Sunni doesn't mean you need to know or follow one or all Sahih hadeeth, but that you never will reject any Sahih hadeeth. Being a Quranist could be the default in this case, but we know that there should be stuff better than the default - else we would be running around naked and uncircumcised :yep:



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    Do Shia consider their Sunni brothers and sisters to be brothers and sisters in faith or brothers and sisters merely in humanity?

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I don't do it. Afaik, in Islamic shariah, what is done openly is what matters. If someone openly promotes say, apostasy, or homosexuality, as per shariah in the right circumstances, that is punishable.

    Afaik, in any shia gathering, in shia mosques, in shia video's, in books written by shia's, in shia's on forums, in shia's in real life, in shia's on podcasts, it's forbidden to ask Allah to remove his mercy , even if you believe that individual wronged Rasullah s.a.w and disobeyed Allah swt. On shia forums, you can get auto-banned for doing it. We recognise the fact the Ummah has divergent historical views, and a large body strongly holds a certian view, as well as how respected these individuals are.
    I recently had the chance to read through some prominent books by major scholars and sadly what I have read both confused me greatly about the shia madhab and their methodology, as well as making me sad and disappointed by the thoughts displayed therein.
    In these books I have read so far (only around 4 or five) there is clear outward encouragement for cursing and la'anaat on the companions and using the worst and dirtiest of language in describing them.
    I had read/started to read these books due to pure curiosity and search for truth and wanting to take the words and understandings from the horse's mouth and not from others.
    For example I have come across an entire book dedicated to cursing and insulting Abubakar and Umar. The book is called the two sanams (idols) (I never knew they were known as that '' the two idols of qureysh'') in surat Al-Rahman. And the ways and methods used in the book to contort and derive meanings from whim and thin air to twist meanings of the quran to fit an agenda, I don't think that even contortionists are able to contort their bodies in the way the quran was contorted in this book (and another book I have come across which I will bring up at a later stage).
    I have also come across other sayings which I find create the greatest if rifts among muslims.
    Sayings such as:
    -
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    And whatever involves brotherhood does not involve them, as there is no brotherhood between us and between them. Since it is compulsory in us to disown them, disown their (religious) leaders and disown and distance ourselves from their madhab as is required in our madhab and related to us in books.

    -
    Spoiler:
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    And those not of us are not our brothers, even if they are muslims. And to be truthful the one who looks into our narrations will not doubt that it does not make it impermissible for us to backbite them. And no one should doubt that backbiting is only prohibited against the true believer who has allegiance to the true imams.
    There is no doubt that we shouldn't respect them, nay it is an essential part of the madhab (to not respect them). Indeed if one looks into many of the sources will see that it is permissable to insult them, degrade them publicly and backbite them, nay the imams themselves had increasingly cursed them and insulted them and made public their bad deeds.

    These are from the book by Ayatollah khomeni called al-makasiib al-muharamah.
    It is very hard to find an excuse of taking things out of context, who is this ''they'' and when it is said ''they are not our brothers/true believers''
    And sadly the theme of not true believers is a recurring theme I have come across.
    This is from another book (bearing in mind I only gave these books a quick glance and not a detailed look into them). This book is called
    Al-rasaai'il al-i'itiqadiyaah authored by:
    Sh mohamed isma'il al-mazindrani al-khawj'u'ii
    -
    Spoiler:
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    Abu ja'afar said:ِAnd the dua'a of Ibrahim alaiyhi al-salaam will reach the sinners of our shia'a till the end of time.
    The author then goes on to say:
    And from this hadith(the above hadith from abu ja'afar) we can gather that all the other muslims groups (other than 12ers) are not mu'mins (true believers), as such they are not included in this dua'a of Ibrahim (as).

    -Same book same author as part of a long hadith:
    ...And Allah swt ordered the people of the left as'haab Al-Shimaal to enter hell and they are the opposers (term used generally for sunnis).

    -same author narrating from usuul al-kaffi:
    Spoiler:
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    ... Narrated from Abi-Al-Hassan Al-madi (abul hassam musa bin ja'afar al-kadim) when this verse was mentioned to him:
    إِنَّ الْمُتَّقِينَ فِي ظِلَالٍ وَعُيُونٍ
    Surely the God-revering, pious will be amidst pleasant shade and springs
    He said:
    By god it is us (ie the verse is about us) and our shia'a, no one is on the path/religion (millat ibrahim) except us and everyone else is detached from his path.

    -still on the same book and author:
    Spoiler:
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    From a very long hadith by Abi Al-HAssan Al-Rida:
    ....And they (the shia'a are of us and they enter from where we enter and none but us (the imams) and them (the shia'a) are in the fold of islam till the end of time.....
    From the same hadith later part....
    ...And whomever is separated from us will perish/be damned, and whomever follows us will survive. The denier andthe detached from us are kaffirs, and our followers are the believers.....
    ....Further along the same hadith...
    ...We are a light to those who follow us and whomever is not of us is not in the fold of islam. It is through us that god gave victory to this faith, it is through us/ by us that god has fed you the seeds of this earth.....

    Spoiler:
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    Narrated from abu abdallah:
    no one is on the beliefs (millat) of Ibrahim except you, and god will not accept worship from anyone but you, and the only ones whose sins will be forgiven are you

    who is a nasibi?
    Spoiler:
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    As part of a very, very long interesting narration....
    ....And when abu abdullah (one of the imams) was asked about the nasibi he replied:
    the nasibi is not one who is enemy to us (ie enemy of ahlu bayt), for if you went in circles around Iraq you would never find one who would hate us. But the nasibi is the one who is against our shia whilst knowing they are our shia...
    ...The author then coments and says:
    And this is why most if not all of the opposers (sunni) are as described (ie nasibi) and this could be why Al-murtada and ibn-idris went with the view that the entirety of their populations are nijassah (impure)


    And the biggest shock to me so far from what I have been reading (there are many other big shocks but this one really sticks to my mind) is what I have read in a book called: Al-Anwar Al-Nu'umaniyah by sayyid ni'imatallah al-jazai'iri, who among the things he said are:
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    We share no god with them, we share no prophet with them and we share no imam with them (abubakar). Because they say their god is the one whose prophet mohamed left behind abubakar as a successor. As such we do not believe in that god, nor do we believe in that prophet. That god is not our god and that prophet is not our prophet...
    The author continues to say....
    And on the other side this shows (since we don't believe in the same god? is that the justification for what follows?) that it is permissible to curse all the opposers, nay it shows the compulsory requirement to curse them.
    therefore it is clear that we must absolve ourselves from any connection with them and doing so is one of the strongest pillars of iman

    -In another place
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    The terms of kuffur and shirk has been stuck with them throughout the quran (where exactly I'm yet to see!) which is why they are all generally viewed as nasibis


    Honestly I never expected to see the amount of things I have seen from only 4 or 5 books and sadly the rift is greater than I had originally thought.
    There are a lot more on this topic but for now this is enough.
    I will add more later, but none of it really makes any sense to why and why?!
    And as someone said earlier, sadly you say something (which is very positive) but the books and a large number of the scholars of the madhab say something completely different.
    I hope I wrong do no one as that is not my aim.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Salamunalaykum,
    wa alaikum al salaam.
    Still on the topic of public cursing and views on sunnis.
    I have read in Al-Anwar Al-numaniyah, by ni'imatallah al-jazai'iri:
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    It was narrated from the prophet pbu that he said:
    the sign of a nasibi is putting others in higher ranks than Ali.
    ... the author then comments and says:
    ...and what supports this understanding that the imams and their inner circles had called Abu Hanifah and his ilk nasibis. Despite Abu Hanifah not being one who openly showed enmity to ahlu bayt. Abu Hanifah loved the ahlu bayt and showed dedication for them but he would go against their teachings


    -And on the theme of not believing, he says:
    [spoiler]iman (belief) is not complete by merely accepting the shahada, it is not complete without the wilayaah, as they are eqauls in completing faith.[spoiler]

    -later on there is a ''hadith qudusi'' which says:
    Spoiler:
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    Allah offered the wilayaah to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and the light had covered them all (heavens, earth and mountains), and god said to them:
    These are my most beloved ones, they are my custodians (awliya'a), they are my proof and demonstrations (hujajj) upon my creation (ie no one will have an excuse as the proof has been presented to them). For those who follow them I have created my heaven, and for those who oppose them and fight them I have created my hell.... Long hadith cut short....
    And when Adam and eve saw the elevated position of the imams they saw it to be the most elevated and most honoured of positions in the heaven. So the almighty said to them ''if not for them I wouldn't have created you''


    -In another Hadith by imam al-sadiq, a very long hadith:
    ...(basically we the the chosen and our shia)... and the rest of people are the lost people and it will be to hell with them.

    Spoiler:
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    And in the narrations we can see that when Ali bin yaqtiin the vizir of Al-Rashid was imprisoned, there was a number of the opposers in the same prison. So he got his friends with him to bring down a wall on them and kill 500 of them in one go


    Are they muslim?
    Spoiler:
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    And where are they from islam when they have rejected their imams, we may call them muslims sometimes, but that is just for comparison, or as a metaphor or just as a way of taqiyah
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    (Original post by alirs)
    Yes, and I eat pork and I don't pray.
    Astaghfirrulah
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Dear brother/sister in Islam,

    InshAllah after my exams, we can delve deeper into the reasonable points raised.

    But, just out of interest (i ask this to a lot of people) - where is Allah swt?
    Salam Alaykum,

    Hopefully this will shed some light.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbnUMqLQ78
 
 
 
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