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    (Original post by donutellme)
    It's called nature. Men are built for stress, stamina and leadership. Women are built for emotion, delicacy and support. This is the way the world works.

    Sure, we're not animals, and those traits arent as relevant in modern workplaces, and its good that more women are going into work than in times past. But to say there aren't enough female CEOs? How is that a measure of inequality? You could compare something like there aren't enough female teachers, as that is a profession that had demographics worth measuring. CEOs are few and far between, and the fact of the matter is that ON AVERAGE , women don't have what it takes. Do not think that this means I'm looking down on women or seeing them as inferior. They are not. But humans are suited for different roles, just as a carpenter cannot be CEO material either.

    And you are naive to think laws will truly make us equal in the way you think. Do you think this will mean that women will no longer consider height in men as attractive? Or men will consider overweight women attractive? The latter is already being pushed down everyone's throat, yet short men accept their fate. Where is the equality in that?
    So you're using biological differences to defend gender inequality? How does a woman's biological make up predispose her to take on a support role? Or not having leadership skills? And how do you explain the minority of women who do have managerial roles? If they are biologically not suited to those roles, then how could they have possibly gotten them? And I most definitely do not believe that changes in the law will truly make us equal - that's my whole point! People are arguing that we ARE equal because of changes in the law but people's attitudes need to change, not just the law. And the reason why I mentioned CEO's is because it is a top position within a company with an incredibly disproportionate amount of men are in that position so it is very relevant. If women want to date men taller than them that is because they're taught by society to go for big manly guys who will protect them and even those attitudes are slowly changing since many women don't care e.g. Rosie Huntington Whiteley and her partner Jason Statham. There are a lot of male suicides because they are expected to take on a masculine role in society but they cannot. Gender roles are a social construct, not based on biology.
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    (Original post by TrueDetective01)
    Well feminism is the oppression of male sexuality whilst elevating female sexuality.Then again, marxists couldn't care about that could they
    If I truly was a Marxist, I would not be talking about gender roles but perhaps the exploitation at the hands of capitalist society. Feminism is wanting gender equality and it may make you scared and lead to a crisis in your masculine identity but it benefits the majority as I stated previously. Men will finally not be stigmatised for things like showing emotion, being a "stay at home dad" and admitting to suffering domestic abuse at the hand of a woman. I don't just care about female oppression, I also care about how patriarchy has led to male oppression.
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    (Original post by TrueDetective01)
    The dude is a marxist, duhh
    "Dude" if I'm a Marxist, does that make you a Nazi because they also argued that there is a social hierarchy based on race and sex.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Because if your aim is to eradicate all female disadvantage you'd be left with only male disadvantage meaning women would be superior


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    You've really been brainwashed. "Eradicating" female oppression also serves to eradicate male oppression. Patriarchy is not just bad for females, it's also bad for males hence why there is a higher rate of male suicide because men are taught to contain their emotions. I don't just care about women, I care about both genders and believe "eradicating" patriarchy is beneficial to both.
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    (Original post by TrueDetective01)
    Your posts ?
    Because I said "pushing for"? It's a figure of speech, nobody's really pushing anyone. It's really absurd that you would think that. Don't worry, next time I'll make time to point out figurative meanings and literal meanings.
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    (Original post by ElizaCupcake)
    such as what? what are the issues that men are facing
    Look at my post on page 11. You're welcome to reply to it. No female has/has been able to yet.
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    (Original post by Jd_uk)
    Curious whether you've read this thread and looked at all the ways that society discriminates against men?

    You'll find that despite being far more serious issues than the possibly mythical gender pay gap, they get way, way less attention.
    I do not ignore male oppression at the hands of patriarchy. I fight for that alongside all my other beliefs. But getting rid of female oppression, in turn, gets rid of male oppression. Women are expected to be emotional and homemakers so that's why judges are likely to give them custody but if that stereotypes was abolished, there would be more equality regarding which parent gets custody. There are so many more examples. There is a common misconception that getting rid of patriarchy is harmful for men when in actual fact, it is better for men.
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    Shut the **** up.
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    You've really been brainwashed. "Eradicating" female oppression also serves to eradicate male oppression. Patriarchy is not just bad for females, it's also bad for males hence why there is a higher rate of male suicide because men are taught to contain their emotions. I don't just care about women, I care about both genders and believe "eradicating" patriarchy is beneficial to both.
    So by eradicating female issues you're going to have more fathers being awarded custody? So by eradicating women's problems were going to punish women who force men into sex in the same way we punish men? - that's not really a natural conclusion. You claim I've been brainwashed but it's you regurgitating the same nonsense that every feminist spouts


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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    Patriarchy is not just bad for females, it's also bad for males hence why there is a higher rate of male suicide because men are taught to contain their emotions.
    Sorry but this is just a nonsense line which feminists come out with and one i find a bit offensive (not by you personally but in general). It is a gross oversimplifcation to state that male suicide rates are so because men are not able to show emotion due to 'a patriarchy'. If female suicide rates were so high it would be all over the news and there would be so many studies trying to get to the bottom of why it happens. My personal thoughts are that modern feminism has actually harmed men quite a lot but that is anecdotal based on my own experiences/thoughts/feelings. Absolutely no way though are mens issues (often much more serious ones too) treated as important as female issues so i regard the idea of patriarchy as complete BS.
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    I do not ignore male oppression at the hands of patriarchy.


    Are we now saying that men are effectively ****ing themselves over in order to benefit themselves and exclude women?

    This is all very counter-intuitive.
    Spoiler:
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    OP done did a 13 page thread just by saying "discuss" lmao well played
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    So by eradicating female issues you're going to have more fathers being awarded custody? So by eradicating women's problems were going to punish women who force men into sex in the same way we punish men? - that's not really a natural conclusion. You claim I've been brainwashed but it's you regurgitating the same nonsense that every feminist spouts


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yes! It's not just about eradicating female issues, it's about creating equality! How many times do I have to repeat myself? If there was equality, I'm sure more men would get custody and more male rape victims will feel conformable to come forward etc. You cannot define feminism as whatever you want. It's about gender equality and that's all.
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    I've also noticed that something that has been failed to mention is that there are different types of feminism. A common misconception that is held is the all feminist fall into a single category and are all women with extremist views when in actual fact there is a diverse multitude of feminists.

    1) Black feminism is a school of thought which argues that sexism, class oppression, gender identity and racism are inextricably bound together. The way these concepts relate to each other is called intersectionality. The term intersectionality theory was first coined by legal scholar Kimberlé Crenshaw in 1989.

    they also argue that the sexism experienced by women in 3rd world countries are worse than there are in 1st world countries. they argue this is because of practices such as female genital mutilation in parts of Africa and Asia as well as restricting laws such as women not being able to drive in parts of Asia.

    2) radical feminist is a perspective within feminist that calls for a reordering of society in which male supremacy is eliminated in all social and economic contexts. they seek to abolish patriarchy by challenging existing social norms and institutions, rather than through a purely political process.

    these are the feminist you are most likely are talking about. they do not tend to be concerned with issues such as the pay gap or maternity leave but are interested in social norms and how women are treated on a daily basis. in the past they have argued about the changing of the English language and words such as 'history' to 'herstory', one of the biggest radical speakers Ann Oakley has often advised all women to engage in homosexual relationships and to ship men and women to separate countries.

    however, this is one strand of feminism, and though their views can be argued as extreme and in some cases stupid, they should not be confused as the forefront of feminism neither should their views be believed to be held by all feminists.

    3) there are also liberal feminist who agree that women have come a long way so far but argue that there are still things that need to be sorted out. whilst some people may argue that women are equal to men in the western world some of the comments that have been made on this thread show differently.

    A common misconception held by people is that the gender a person is born into has any sort of correlation with their sex.
    According to the World Health Organization, "Sex refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women. Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women."

    this is evident from the amount of people who believe that they were born into the wrong body i.e. transgender as well as the amount of people who identify as androgynous.

    therefore until people can look at another person and see not see their gender but judge them on nothing but their merits, we will always need feminism.

    the social issues that liberal feminist are concerned with include
    * sexual harassment
    * unequal job opportunities/ pay
    * the belief that women should be more likely to get custody reinforcing the belief that its a women job to look after kids
    * differential treatment within school that lead to self fulfillment
    * the belief that doing something 'like a girl' is an insult
    * women being insulted for the clothing is its 'too scantly' whereas men can walk around shirtless in the summer
    and so much more

    4) finally, there are Marxist feminist who hold the belief that upper class men are to blame for the patriarchy that exist within society. they have oftehn argued that they raise future worker (i.e. kids) without payment therefore providing free labour. they also argue that by given men sexual pleasure they are restoring them to their full capacity to go back to work and work harder than they would have had they not had their sexual desires met, again without payment. and they argue that men should be stripped of their financial power in order to make society equal.

    All in all, there are a variety of different feminists who stand for a variety of different things. i have yet to cover all the feminist that they are but as you can see they are not all fighting for the same things and some of the things they are asking for are quiet reasonable.
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    Because I said "pushing for"? It's a figure of speech, nobody's really pushing anyone. It's really absurd that you would think that. Don't worry, next time I'll make time to point out figurative meanings and literal meanings.
    And how exactly are you going to 'push for'?
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    I do not ignore male oppression at the hands of patriarchy. I fight for that alongside all my other beliefs. But getting rid of female oppression, in turn, gets rid of male oppression. Women are expected to be emotional and homemakers so that's why judges are likely to give them custody but if that stereotypes was abolished, there would be more equality regarding which parent gets custody. There are so many more examples. There is a common misconception that getting rid of patriarchy is harmful for men when in actual fact, it is better for men.

    Sorry again but I think you're showing a lot of naivety. This is what feminists say but it doesn't make it true. There is SO much discriimination against men in modern society and so many double standards/behaviour which women get away with that just wouln't be acceptable for men. I'm not going to sit about educating you on that but if you actually properly look at things from a male point of view then you will see just how distorted feminism has become. All these feminists that state they also fight for mens issues..it is always a huge afterthought only when they are challenged (again not talking about you but just watch some videos on youtube of men's rights v feminism debates). Often the feminists act with huge double standards.
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    "Dude" if I'm a Marxist, does that make you a Nazi because they also argued that there is a social hierarchy based on race and sex.
    I am anti-authoritarian so, try again
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)


    Are we now saying that men are effectively ****ing themselves over in order to benefit themselves and exclude women?

    This is all very counter-intuitive.
    Spoiler:
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    OP done did a 13 page thread just by saying "discuss" lmao well played
    No, some men benefit from patriarchy whilst some don't. And some are wrongly convinved that patriarchy is benefiting them when it really is not if you look deeper.
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    (Original post by NeoMarxist)
    No, some men benefit from patriarchy whilst some don't.
    So why is it given such a stupid name then? The definition of it goes directly against what you say it is.
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    (Original post by Jd_uk)
    Sorry again but I think you're showing a lot of naivety. This is what feminists say but it doesn't make it true. There is SO much discriimination against men in modern society and so many double standards/behaviour which women get away with that just wouln't be acceptable for men. I'm not going to sit about educating you on that but if you actually properly look at things from a male point of view then you will see just how distorted feminism has become. All these feminists that state they also fight for mens issues..it is always a hige afterthought only when they are challenged (again not talking about you but just watch some videos on youtube of men's rights v feminism debates). Often the feminists act with huge double standards.
    Well that's their belief, not mine. I just want equality for a better quality of life and a better future. I don't ignore male problems - I strongly fight for the rights of both sexes. But the problem lies within patriarchy which is bad for both men and women.
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    So why is it given such a stupid name then? The definition of it goes directly against what you say it is.
    You can't go through life taking everything at face value. It does benefit men in many superficial ways e.g. job wise. But under that superficiality, it is also harmful to men e.g. suppressing their emotions which has led to a higher number in male suicides.
 
 
 
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