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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The more ironic thing is that you're practically the spokesman for remain: "Boris wants to be PM, don't trust him."

    Okay, not really ironic, just funny

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    I wouldn't class myself as the "spokesman for remain", I just find it amusing that people have such short memories and forget how Boris Johnson acted like an human monkey and how Gove was hated by most teachers but yet are still willing to follow them into the unknown.
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    (Original post by aidenj)
    Okay, taking away Boris Johnson from the Blue power couple of the Leave Campaign, we are left with Michael Gove. The man who during his short 4 year tenure as Education Secretary managed to consistently annoy and anger the majority of teachers, which lead to votes of no confidence, of his policies, in all major teaching unions.
    You've also got Iain Dunan Smith.

    What, you'd rather take the word of 'respectable' George Osborne and ol' Dave?
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    You've also got Iain Dunan Smith.

    What, you'd rather take the word of 'respectable' George Osborne and ol' Dave?
    Ahh yes good old IDS, the man who in 2013 was found to of broken the UK code of practice for official statistics for favouring the use of statistics that made Government policies look to be successful despite, in the real world, them really not working.
    The man who 27 bishops in 2014 signed an open letter against saying that the cutbacks to benefits led more people to food banks.
    Also the man who, in a leaked letter, shown that he wanted to make it harder for the sick and the disabled , the most vulnerable in our society, to claim benefits.

    Sure. This man is definitely trustworthy and it definitely isn't fishy that after 6 years of imposing harsh cuts, to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society, he decides to leave the Cabinet - right after the EU referendum was called - because "he actually did care about people".
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    (Original post by aidenj)
    I wouldn't class myself as the "spokesman for remain", I just find it amusing that people have such short memories and forget how Boris Johnson acted like an human monkey and how Gove was hated by most teachers but yet are still willing to follow them into the unknown.
    you're trotting out the right lines

    So because person x is hated by group y on matter z they cannot then support them on matter a?

    If we want to play the "look at what figures used to say and do" we can sit and have some fun, especially when it comes to half the labour front bench.
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    (Original post by aidenj)
    Ahh yes good old IDS, the man who in 2013 was found to of broken the UK code of practice for official statistics for favouring the use of statistics that made Government policies look to be successful despite, in the real world, them really not working.
    The man who 27 bishops in 2014 signed an open letter against saying that the cutbacks to benefits led more people to food banks.
    Also the man who, in a leaked letter, shown that he wanted to make it harder for the sick and the disabled , the most vulnerable in our society, to claim benefits.

    Sure. This man is definitely trustworthy and it definitely isn't fishy that after 6 years of imposing harsh cuts, to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society, he decides to leave the Cabinet - right after the EU referendum was called - because "he actually did care about people".
    I'm sure you don't need me to point out the many problems and controversies with the figures of the Remain campaign.

    Let's keep the ad hominem fallacies to a minimum.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    you're trotting out the right lines

    So because person x is hated by group y on matter z they cannot then support them on matter a?

    If we want to play the "look at what figures used to say and do" we can sit and have some fun, especially when it comes to half the labour front bench.
    Not to mention Mr 7/10 Corbyn who is known for hating the EU but is forced by his party to support it.
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    (Original post by Sun_Bear)
    Not to mention Mr 7/10 Corbyn who is known for hating the EU but is forced by his party to support it.
    Well it does allow the Murdoch press to deflect attention from the divided Tories who called this referendum and blame Labour if there is a vote to Leave. Labour voters saved Weak Dave's arse in Scotland, now he wants them to save it again.


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    (Original post by Sunghyunah)
    Regardless of either of our stances on the EU, do you even live in the East Anglia or are you just making the assumption that we're all UKIP supporters? I have lived in South Essex my entire life and most of our constituencies are and have always been Conservative not UKIP, the UKIP supporters here are still a minority. And the majority of people in the student generation that I know are Labour/Green voters and are very thoroughly on the remain side.
    Observatory is distorting what I originally said. I said that the survey of British racial attitudes showed high percentages of racist attitudes in rural, white, middle class areas like the rural counties of the South West. I also said that Norfolk and Essex were examples, I was being slightly tongue in cheek about the latter, as it has that reputation and tends to have concentrations of UKIP votes in some areas. There is an alignment between white older people's racist attitudes and the appeals to them by Brexiteers, they clearly see the value for example in going on about immigration all the time, which to many racists in Britain is a codeword not just for black/Asian immigration, but for regarding all non-White British people as 'immigrants' regardless of their place of birth or nationality.

    Of course the Home counties, E Anglian counties and other rural areas have large numbers of Tory voters as well. That doesn't change my view though, as many middle class, middle aged and older Tory voters are also profoundly motivated by racist attitudes.
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    (Original post by TheyHateUs)
    Your cartoon doesn't say where the parachutists are going to land. The Swamp of Prolonged Recession.
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    Boris Johnson hardly represents the entire Leave campaign, and I doubt many people who want to leave were convinced by him.
    He pretty much has become the de-factor leader of it though, if only because the media have appointed him to that role.

    He's a completely untrustworthy slimy political hack who until about 5 weeks ago was firmly in the Remain camp, until he saw it as his big chance to stab Dave in the front.

    I strongly believe that after a Brexit vote, assuming he makes the PM job, he would return to fence sitting and play down the whole Brexit thing in his usual fake-bumbling 'style'.
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    I've applied for an Irish passport. I'm ready if we leave
    One of the outcomes of Brexit would almost certainly be a big economic boost for Dublin as lots more jobs and business would relocate there from the UK.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Your cartoon doesn't say where the parachutists are going to land. The Swamp of Prolonged Recession.
    Landing pretty much anywhere is better than crashing pretty much anywhere.

    This forum is so British. Lets not discuss the merits of leaving or staying, lets just **** off the opposition politicians. Its not Boris vs Cameron, its EU vs individuality, a bit part player in a failing institution vs holding our own future in our hands.
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    For all those concerned by immigration from the EU and prefer Garage's view that the Commonwealth is the better immigration partner, here's a UN chart for you.

    The chart shows population trends for the Eurozone compared to the Commonwealth for the 2015-2050 period.

    Name:  0e53b963-bce5-4ba1-9cab-333cedaab048_201503_C3.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  18.6 KB

    Population in the Commonwealth is expected to rise by 30.4%, the Eurozone population is expected to fall by 1.9%.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    For all those concerned by immigration from the EU and prefer Garage's view that the Commonwealth is the better immigration partner, here's a UN chart for you.

    The chart shows population trends for the Eurozone compared to the Commonwealth for the 2015-2050 period.

    Name:  0e53b963-bce5-4ba1-9cab-333cedaab048_201503_C3.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  18.6 KB

    Population in the Commonwealth is expected to rise by 30.4%, the Eurozone population is expected to fall by 1.9%.
    They don't really want more Commonwealth immigration. It was just a political ploy to distract the allegation that the harping on about immigration is appealing to a racist agenda.

    The Ukippers featured on TV documentaries about the party last year were rabid in their dislike of Commonwealth immigrants and some talked about expelling the ones born here.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    For all those concerned by immigration from the EU and prefer Garage's view that the Commonwealth is the better immigration partner, here's a UN chart for you.

    The chart shows population trends for the Eurozone compared to the Commonwealth for the 2015-2050 period.

    Name:  0e53b963-bce5-4ba1-9cab-333cedaab048_201503_C3.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  18.6 KB

    Population in the Commonwealth is expected to rise by 30.4%, the Eurozone population is expected to fall by 1.9%.
    Interesting - Since we have 180-90k non-EU immigrants each year anyway, there seems to be zero hope in hell of getting down to the tens of thousands. Can't even effectively limit what we can control.

    There also seems to be an expectation that the European economy as a whole won't improve. Given unemployment rates in some Southern European economies, it's hard to see how it can actually get worse. If they start to improve, they'll become better 'job destinations' over time anyway. Migration does tend to be a cycle
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    (Original post by jneill)
    For all those concerned by immigration from the EU and prefer Garage's view that the Commonwealth is the better immigration partner, here's a UN chart for you.

    The chart shows population trends for the Eurozone compared to the Commonwealth for the 2015-2050 period.

    Name:  0e53b963-bce5-4ba1-9cab-333cedaab048_201503_C3.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  18.6 KB

    Population in the Commonwealth is expected to rise by 30.4%, the Eurozone population is expected to fall by 1.9%.
    Lets remember the point is we could pick and chose after Brexit, the issue currently is not where immigrants are coming from, but that we are forced to permit all from the EU access. The population growth of the Commonwealth has 0 effect on anything. If the population rises it certainly doesn't mean we need to accept more immigrants, if we have gained the ability to control our own borders, so I'm not sure what effect this has on anything?

    Also, a graph showing the population of the eurozone is very selective (and dare I say bias), what about the other 9 EU countries? What about the potential of Turkey, who are looking more and more likely to join the EU, and would bump the EU population up 75 million themselves.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    They don't really want more Commonwealth immigration. It was just a political ploy to distract the allegation that the harping on about immigration is appealing to a racist agenda.

    The Ukippers featured on TV documentaries about the party last year were rabid in their dislike of Commonwealth immigrants and some talked about expelling the ones born here.
    Yup, just expediency by Nigel.

    And it's not as if 500 million fellow Europeans are about to camp out in Swindon. Nice as it is.
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    (Original post by Algren)
    What about the potential of Turkey, who are looking more and more likely to join the EU, and would bump the EU population up 75 million themselves.
    Fear! Panic! Turkey!

    Yes you walked into it.

    They aren't joining (only completed 1 of 30+ chapters), and even if they did so bloody what. BoJo's great grandpa was Turkish. If his family hadn't decided to change their surname he would be Boris Kemal.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Fear! Panic! Turkey!Yes you walked into it.They aren't joining (only completed 1 of 30+ chapters), and even if they did so bloody what. BoJo's great grandpa was Turkish. If his family hadn't decided to change their surname he would be Boris Kemal.
    You decided to ignore the other 75% of my comment which was questioning the relevance of your graph and comments, and instead harped on the 25% which you could reply with "so what", which is exactly what I was saying about your point. Are you a politician by any chance?And sending me a big poster of simply a person stood on a diving board on a page of black reading "leap into the dark", ISN'T fear tactics I suppose?

    Its simply logic, uncontrolled immigration is unsustainable, fill a glass of water, then keep the tap running and see what happens. In the EU, we cannot control immigration, therefore it is uncontrollable, therefore we are susceptible to a sudden influx caused by any number of natural or human caused factors, look back at you glass.

    Personally, immigration isn't my chief concern anyway, just responding to your immigration "facts" which are irrelevant and bias.
 
 
 
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