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    (Original post by jneill)
    I don't disagree... but he probably didn't have much choice.
    He had every choice. He could have let UKIP campaign away and possibly get a few more seats and not added the promise to the manifesto.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    No. It's because UKIP.
    Without ukip there would be no decision being made, but because it does need making it pretty much has to utilise direct democracy

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Because by convention such major constitutional questions are put to the people

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    Not always. When was there a referendum on the ECHR? Or devolution?


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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Not always. When was there a referendum on the ECHR? Or devolution?


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    There were referendums on devolution...

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There were referendums on devolution...

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    So there was.
    I still don't believe that we are holding one due to convention. It's as others have said, down to UKIP.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Not always. When was there a referendum on ... Or devolution?
    There have been many, many referenda on various forms of devolution: in 1998 on having a mayor for London; in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland on regional devolution (in 1973, 1979, 1997, 1998, 2011); on Scottish independence (2014); on devolution in north-east England in 2004; and on mayors in about fifty towns and cities across the country (various dates between 2001 and 2014).
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So there was.
    I still don't believe that we are holding one due to convention. It's as others have said, down to UKIP.

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    Convention is the reason for it being a referendum rather than merely a parliamentary vote, ukip is the main reason the question is being considered. The two things are distinct and separate

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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    There have been many, many referenda on various forms of devolution: in 1998 on having a mayor for London; in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland on regional devolution (in 1973, 1979, 1997, 1998, 2011); on Scottish independence (2014); on devolution in north-east England in 2004; and on mayors in about fifty towns and cities across the country (various dates between 2001 and 2014).
    And only 2 (or 3 including today) across the whole of the UK.

    It's a rare thing.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    And only 2 (or 3 including today) across the whole of the UK.

    It's a rare thing.
    Because such questions are rare...

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    Just those people they polled, who were willing to express an opinion. British public more broadly won't be so shy when voting anonymously

    #BelieveInBritain
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Just those people they polled, who were willing to express an opinion. British public more broadly won't be so shy when voting anonymously

    #BelieveInBritain
    You do know your vote can be identified? (But it would be illegal to do so...)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret...s._reliability
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    (Original post by jneill)
    You do know your vote can be identified? (But it would be illegal to do so...)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret...s._reliability
    One cannot help but wonder if at times in the past, the security services or independent contractors might not have been brought in to alter the votes. For example, to put the Tories in office at key moments, or perhaps in the past to alter the results of some by-elections or similar. Organising it would not be all that difficult, a simple matter of switching ballot boxes between their collection at polling stations and their arrival at counts in selected key marginals.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Morning all. Couple of polls in from our ever-busy internet pollsters YouGov.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/17...main-lead-one/

    Remain average lead 1%.



    The effect of Jo Cox's murder? Or the furore over Farage's poster?

    Personally I always thought Remain would harden as the day approached and this appears to be supporting that view.

    EDIT: YouGov say these polls were done before Jo Cox was killed.

    "
    While there will be speculation about whether this movement is connected to the tragic death of Jo Cox, we do not think that it is. The fieldwork for our Good Morning Britain poll was entirely conducted before she was attacked and a third of the responses to our Sunday Times poll were also done before news of her death was reported.The underlying figures suggest the movement may be more to do with people worrying about the economic impact of leaving the European Union. In the Sunday Times poll 33% of people said they thought that they would be personally worse off if Britain left the EU, up from 23% a fortnight ago and easily the highest we have recorded on this question.
    "
    Vote remain- economy
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    One cannot help but wonder if at times in the past, the security services or independent contractors might not have been brought in to alter the votes. For example, to put the Tories in office at key moments, or perhaps in the past to alter the results of some by-elections or similar. Organising it would not be all that difficult, a simple matter of switching ballot boxes between their collection at polling stations and their arrival at counts in selected key marginals.
    Nah. I really don't think so. Tracking your vote is one thing, changing it is quite another and wouldn't work at scale.

    But they used to put you on a little list if you voted communist. Allegedly.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    One cannot help but wonder if at times in the past, the security services or independent contractors might not have been brought in to alter the votes. For example, to put the Tories in office at key moments, or perhaps in the past to alter the results of some by-elections or similar. Organising it would not be all that difficult, a simple matter of switching ballot boxes between their collection at polling stations and their arrival at counts in selected key marginals.
    I think you overestimate the power of the security services. Secondly can you imagine how much money you could make selling your story of how you swapped ballot boxes to the Mirror? Rigging elections requires quite a lot of resources, if practical dictatorships like Iran and Russia cannot manage it, how do you expect the UK (A much more open society) to do so?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    One cannot help but wonder if at times in the past, the security services or independent contractors might not have been brought in to alter the votes. For example, to put the Tories in office at key moments, or perhaps in the past to alter the results of some by-elections or similar. Organising it would not be all that difficult, a simple matter of switching ballot boxes between their collection at polling stations and their arrival at counts in selected key marginals.
    Sorry FOS but sometimes the majority of the electorate do vote for the Tories ;-).
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    Sorry FOS but sometimes the majority of the electorate do vote for the Tories ;-).
    Very rarely do they have an absolute majority (i.e. share >50%), but FPTP means they don't have to
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Very rarely do they have an absolute majority (i.e. share >50%), but FPTP means they don't have to
    I agree that, for example, 35% percent of the vote with a 65-70% turnout isn't exactly a majority (for all political parties) which is why I wouldn't oppose making voting mandatory as long as there was a "None of the Above/You'll all Rubbish" box.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    I agree that, for example, 35% percent of the vote with a 65-70% turnout isn't exactly a majority (for all political parties) which is why I wouldn't oppose making voting mandatory as long as there was a "None of the Above/You'll all Rubbish" box.
    Yep they have compusory voting in Oz, for example. I'm not sure we need to go that far.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    One cannot help but wonder if at times in the past, the security services or independent contractors might not have been brought in to alter the votes. For example, to put the Tories in office at key moments, or perhaps in the past to alter the results of some by-elections or similar. Organising it would not be all that difficult, a simple matter of switching ballot boxes between their collection at polling stations and their arrival at counts in selected key marginals.
    There's something so incredibly irritating about the way you say the most ludicrous and partisan things in a genial and reasonable-sounding way.
 
 
 
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