Turn on thread page Beta

Government loses article 50 court fight watch

    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Trapz99)
    The fact is we are leaving the EU. No one is going to stop that from happening. I think we all need to stop thinking that 'the Bremoaners are trying to stop the will of the people'- Brexit will happen, calm down everyone.
    The reality is that the Bremoaners are just delaying the inevitable. Not a bright thing to do.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Socktor)
    But the problem I see with this line of thinking is that the referendum only shown what public opinion was on 23 June 2016, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same now, or that it will be in 3-4 years time, especially since by then, many people who were too young to vote in the referendum will come of age, and a lot of the people who did vote will be dead...
    The referendum took place after a long campaign period (and the issue was discussed a lot for years before then) and it was often portrayed as a once in a generation opportunity. Which it is.

    It's only been a few months since the referendum, and Brexit hasn't even happened yet, so you can't use public opinion changing in such a short time frame as an argument for anything. You need to wait for a few years at the very least.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    You seem to have misunderstood (not for the first time).

    I asked you which specific EU influenced laws you would want to see repealed.
    This is kinda important considering that it was the reason you (presumably) voted Leave. It seems a little odd that you claim that your primary motive was to stop the EU forcing their laws on us, yet you are unable to quote a single law that you are opposed to. Hmm.
    Your assumption is wrong. My motivation for voting leave is to ensure that accountability in the UK's democracy, it is also to ensure that we do not have an unelected body pick-and-choosing the legislation that they prefer to propose.

    I am pro-immigration, however I recognise that some people are concerned with the influx and lack of control of our population. I am also pro-market, the UK should retain a competitive and flexible labour market which attracts the best workers in the world.

    In terms of change of laws, I would first and foremost like to see a change in immigration law, in the area of providing fair and equal platform for EU and non-EU visa and immigration applicants. At the moment the system is very much favouring European applicants, allowing residency with or without a job in the UK.

    There are plenty more examples. Some employers are against the Working Time Regulations, and many in the industry are frustrated by the sheer amount of red tapes which inhibits startups and entrepreneurship.

    Again I must emphasise I am simply stating that our own ability to make and be accountable of our own laws, without external influence or legal interference, is a genuine motivation for a lot of Brexiters, which you seem to refuse to accept.

    It is always easy to go down the route of accusing your opponents of not knowing what they want, but this is just the lowest of the low in debates. As soon you you recognise and starting arguing on the merit of your opposition's argument, you might start to construct a good argument.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Your assumption is wrong. My motivation for voting leave is to ensure that accountability in the UK's democracy, it is also to ensure that we do not have an unelected body pick-and-choosing the legislation that they prefer to propose.
    So you support the High Cout's decision then?

    In terms of change of laws, I would first and foremost like to see a change in immigration law, in the area of providing fair and equal platform for EU and non-EU visa and immigration applicants. At the moment the system is very much favouring European applicants, allowing residency with or without a job in the UK.
    What is it about the current legislation that you consider to be detrimental to the UK?

    Some people are against the Working Time Regulations, and many in the industry are frustrated by the sheer amount of red tapes which inhibits startups and entrepreneurship.
    This is somewhat vague. Which specific elements of EU influenced employment law would you repeal?

    Again I must emphasise I am simply stating that our own ability to make and be accountable of our own laws, without external influence or legal interference, is a genuine concern for a lot of Brexiters, which you seem to refuse to accept.
    But our system wassubject to external influence before we joined the EU. The idea that we used to pass laws without consideration to the wishes of or effects on other nations is a tad naive.
    Also, the law has always been above Parliament. If it was acting outside the law or unconstitutionally, the courts would keep them in check. This will still be the case after leaving the EU.

    It is always easy to go down the route of accusing your opponents of not knowing what they want, this is just the lowest of the low. As soon you you recognise and starting arguing on the merit of your opposition's argument, you might start to construct a good argument.
    Well, it still seems that you either don't know, or are wrong, about the reasons for leaving the EU.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lumberjack77)
    They takin our jubbs
    27 countries against 1
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    The coverage of this today has been outrageous and incredibly stupid. To seek to delegitimise the judiciary by painting it as having made a political decision against brexit, and therefore 'the people', rather than a legal decision about the respective powers of government and Parliament, is indefensible and should be condemned by everyone regardless of their views on brexit.

    (Original post by Edmund Monfort)
    It's almost as if the Brexiteers only believe in "sovereignty" and "taking back control of our own country" when it suits them!
    This is a superficially witty but actually completely silly argument. There is a clear difference between (a) the transfer of powers from our domestic legislature to another legislature, and (b) the subordination of the legislature to the directly expressed will of the people. You may agree or disagree with either position, but they are different positions.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    The referendum took place after a long campaign period (and the issue was discussed a lot for years before then) and it was often portrayed as a once in a generation opportunity. Which it is.

    It's only been a few months since the referendum, and Brexit hasn't even happened yet, so you can't use public opinion changing in such a short time frame as an argument for anything. You need to wait for a few years at the very least.
    I think the fact that the Brexit vote has actually happened marks the last few months apart from the years before. We've seen concrete consequences of voting to leave, as opposed to the diet of speculation and propaganda which came before. Sensible people should place greater weight on what has happened recently.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    Just trigger it for goodness sake, I voted remain but this is getting ridiculous now...why are people so afraid of change?
    Interesting you should put it like that. The British are afraid of change, whatever they say. Deep conservatism. That's why we were always in limbo re the EU, and why even when we've chosen to vote on this and decide, we behave like this.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    The coverage of this today has been outrageous and incredibly stupid. To seek to delegitimise the judiciary by painting it as having made a political decision against brexit, and therefore 'the people', rather than a legal decision about the respective powers of government and Parliament, is indefensible and should be condemned by everyone regardless of their views on brexit.

    There is sanity.

    Even the Daily Telegraph, which is meant to be a respectable newspaper, has been labelling the judges as being enemies of the people and trying to thwart their will.
    So too have a number of high profile Tories. Sajdi Javid was the other day.

    It's disgusting to see the way our judiciary has been attacked by people who really should know better.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    How would you take into account the leavers wants or desires? Continue to give away sovereignty and uncontrollable immigration?
    I wouldn't call them dumb... more mistaking anecdotal experiences as reality and then mistaking issues caused by abandonment by successive governments on the EU and immigration, where in reality their main enemy is the political system and local councils rather than plumbers from poland and an political establishment more democratic than their own parliament.

    Uneducated would be the correct answer, but then that has negative connotations.... but personally I wouldn't expect every common person to wade through all the stats and data and political theories, it's why we have a representative democracy which during the referendum failed to educate people on both sides of the argument.

    How would I take into account leavers wants and desires? Well I'd sort out our own house first which caused all the issues then used the EU as a scapegoat, then didn't realise they'd shot themselves in the foot by the time the referendum came around.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Even the Daily Telegraph, which is meant to be a respectable newspaper, has been labelling the judges as being enemies of the people and trying to thwart their will.
    Although as usual Speccie is right about everything

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11...iteers-accept/
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Although as usual Speccie is right about everything

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11...iteers-accept/
    When someone mentions the Spectator, it reminds me that Toby Young exists

    (It's a good article though).

    I'm genuinely disappointed by the refusal of senior Tory mps to come out and criticise this ridiculous witch hunt agains the judges. If anything, the likes of Tim Loughton and Sajid Javid have been egging them on.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    Ah, I get it now. The particular lie that you fell for was the one about Brussels making our laws for us.

    Newsflash - every law in place in the UK was passed by Parliament in Westminster, and there were no measures in place to change that.

    So, now that you know that the reason you voted Leave (if you are old enough) was just made up rubbish, are you going to change your position?
    Not all EU legislation requires an Act of Parliament to be enacted. Regulations are an example.
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

2,082

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.