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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    Hmm, well massage/acupressure?

    I will put my hands up and say that I haven't looked into it - but seeing as I'm doing a Systematic Review as we speak - I think I'll be able to trawl through the evidence pretty quickly when I get round to it.
    As a control?
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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    However, at UEA the majority of our teaching for rheum + ortho is this module - we are taught everything all at once and then don't really go back to it unless it relates to another disease that comes under a different speciality, so we are actually taught the sciency stuff behind the diseases as well as the social effects etc. So basically, if I see a patient with Paget's/SLE/RA etc etc then I actually know about the disease, know to ask for specific symptoms within specific diseases, so I actually find it very beneficial when it comes to remembering disease for exams and such, as I can just remember the patient and the symptoms they had.
    It's too early though imo...you don't actually know what the hell is going on. The way I see it, the first two years should be understanding WHY diseases happen and the subsequent years to understand how patient's present and how to treat them. If Medsoc only serves to teach you signs and symptoms of Sjogrens, for example...it's frankly useless as all you are doing is learning lists of signs and symptoms that correlate to a disease. Much better to learn the disease process, then work out the symptoms from that (as it should be)

    (Am I turning into a traditionalist? )
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    (Original post by digitalis)

    (Am I turning into a traditionalist? )
    I am and unashamed...when you're a first year you learn shizzle like the coronary arteries and how digestion works. You have no idea about the ins and outs of COPD, or surgical antibiotic prophylaxis etc. And that's the way it should be.

    Nothing wrong with a few visits so you know what a hospital looks like though.


    @Becca-Sarah - LOVE! :lovehug:
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    (Original post by Jessaay!)
    Aye, but our pre-clinical years aren't structured based on disease or areas of medicine etc. We do learn about them, but it's not our main focus. For example, in our most recent module we're doing the GI tract (anatomy/physiology), and a lot of biochemistry. We'll learn about the functions of various parts, for example we'll learn about glucose metabolism, then we do learn briefly about the things that "go wrong", for example, we'll learn about diabetes (treatment, symptoms and why it happens) within the part about glucose metabolism. I think the difference is we have much less of a clinical focus in the first two years, so I would say less of our course is based around disease etc, but more around the science of the body and then when we get to our clinical years we'll look at things clinically (obviously) and say, if we got a case study on a patient with malabsorption for example, we'd link it back to our basis of study, rather than just having learnt the symptoms and treatment itself. So we won't have rheum/ortho module, but they'll come under different, less clinically based headings.

    I don't know if I'm making sense but I think that's the main difference. We're so lecture-focused I don't think we'd have time to go on wards.
    all the theory is alot to get through, but you'll thank them for it come clinics.

    Pharmacology Thursday for example (upto 6 hours worth of pharmacology lecctures over a term)...Without it theres no point even starting to talk about treatment and management.
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    they are getting rid of the pre-clinical / clinical divide at UCL. i had a terrible time starting clinics and many of us do not work well like this. i certainly would not say our lecture based system is any preparation for clinics. i have heard that other universities learn basic chest xray/ecg interpretation, basic examination skills and history taking in their first two years.

    my own advice having done is ask the fy1 if their are any patients and go around with a friend. hospitals gets very boring and in final year you are given ultimate freedom so people do not turn up. yes it is all very well going on a three month elective holiday and then chilling but you will get a shock. those of us borderline have had this stress so we know but some people have never had it so perhaps why they chill and panic more. even if you are in this situation if you go home and just read books you will fail as you need clinical skills for finals. written paper and knowledge is not important. it is good to have knowledge and confidence but this is not essential for passing. they are looking for basic skills and safe doctors. lastly when you do your clinics just bear in mind that in the end the expectation is you have to know the basics of everything. get a friend in the final year or in fy1 to go through the basics for examination.
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    (Original post by visesh)
    You clearly missed the CUSS event last week. One of the speakers is mum of one (for almost a decade) and mum to be of second and until recently was a single mum. She just got get CCT in CT-surgery...:p:

    Of the 6 speakers, only one could really afford a nanny ad/or have a "filthy rich" husband. It really was a bit of an eye-opener. (Well, 2 out of 7 if Miss Fernandes could make it :P )
    It would have been odd as bloke no longer interested in surgery attending that though

    I curious though - what was the secret to being a mother and surgeon?
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    that second paragraph is more about how to make the most of clinics and exam revision time. just some tips of mine to help you through it. good luck x
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    (Original post by Revenged)
    that second paragraph is more about how to make the most of clinics and exam revision time. just some tips of mine to help you through it. good luck x
    Ah fair enough mate. But personally the traditional nature of UCL is the whole reason I applied here and part of why it was my number 1 choice.

    I'd superfail doing a PBL course
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    Ah fair enough mate. But personally the traditional nature of UCL is the whole reason I applied here and part of why it was my number 1 choice.

    I'd superfail doing a PBL course
    I'd be pissed if Aberdeen tried to change my course after I'd started. As it is, I'm still on the old course and the years below are having to figure out PBHell for themselves.
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    (Original post by Becca-Sarah)
    I'd be pissed if Aberdeen tried to change my course after I'd started. As it is, I'm still on the old course and the years below are having to figure out PBHell for themselves.
    Well as said - my final year will be changed - but luckily final year is the year that's basically not changing very much, so in reality I get the old course.

    :love: you :p:
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    It's completely changing though! And will totally affect you. From Sep 2012 we're changing. No more PDS. More patient contact, some PBLy BitS

    Thank god I'm barely affected. Only difference for me as a final year will be the ability to resit but 4 less weeks to revise as a result!
    WHUT that's not good at all. How are the changes carrying over into clinical years?

    (Original post by Wangers)
    all the theory is alot to get through, but you'll thank them for it come clinics.

    Pharmacology Thursday for example (upto 6 hours worth of pharmacology lecctures over a term)...Without it theres no point even starting to talk about treatment and management.
    Aye, I've started to become a bit more thankful after having spoken to people from UCL/Impy and oxford/cambridge transfers who are in their clinical years and have had a strong science base and see where it fits in now.
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    (Original post by Jessaay!)
    WHUT that's not good at all. How are the changes carrying over into clinical years?



    Aye, I've started to become a bit more thankful after having spoken to people from UCL/Impy and oxford/cambridge transfers who are in their clinical years and have had a strong science base and see where it fits in now.
    Should havecome to the AGM haha.

    Basically your clinical modules are getting mixed around a bit - and your 4th year will be one exam right at the end.
    So 4th year will no longer be just the specialities. [My year next year will be the last year with just specialities and the exams every 12 weeks].
    And as you already know 3rd year BSc compulsory, but more integrated to the rest of the course rather than being like a year out etc
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    (Original post by xXxBaby-BooxXx)
    Yeah. I was on the wards in the first module back in January
    All we get is a crappy GP placement where you don't actually learn any medicine
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Early clinical exposure isn't just about learning how diseases present, it's more about building your confidence talking to patients. I've found it useful in that sense. Next year when I start clinical medicine, I'll inevitably feel more comfortable in a ward environment and in talking to patients. I'm actually a better medical student because of it. Yeah, I've not got much in terms of science, but I think people underestimate just how important good communication is.
    I don't think good communication is underestimated at all even with traditional preclinical courses. However, yes some people in a traditional course will be utter ****e at communication even when they get to clinics but I think that's a rarity. We're still taught about "good communication" and whilst we may not be AS prepared as someone who's been frequently exposed to patients since term 1, I think it is possible to catch up quite quickly (depending on the person, of course). I don't think it means that our med schools undervalue good communication, or they don't prepare us for clinics. Maybe clinics will be a bit more of a shock for us but for what we don't initially know in terms of communication and clinical skills we can make up for in our science and maybe in a way the science does actually help us learn about it quite quickly (that, and the added maturity of a few years, and also being constantly whined at by our PDS tutors about "good communication" and "empathy", starts to stick after a while).
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    (Original post by Jessaay!)
    I don't think good communication is underestimated at all even with traditional preclinical courses. However, yes some people in a traditional course will be utter ****e at communication even when they get to clinics but I think that's a rarity. We're still taught about "good communication" and whilst we may not be AS prepared as someone who's been frequently exposed to patients since term 1, I think it is possible to catch up quite quickly (depending on the person, of course). I don't think it means that our med schools undervalue good communication, or they don't prepare us for clinics. Maybe clinics will be a bit more of a shock for us but for what we don't initially know in terms of communication and clinical skills we can make up for in our science and maybe in a way the science does actually help us learn about it quite quickly (that, and the added maturity of a few years, and also being constantly whined at by our PDS tutors about "good communication" and "empathy", starts to stick after a while).
    Yeah tbh I've talked to people from *unnamed* university. And they struggled with a lot of science in the clinical years - and catching up on practical skills can be quite easy...
    I think UCL had it right (At least up till now) we were good at science but also not socially retarded... I hope the changes are for the best.

    I will definitely woo the loss of a month of finals revision time though
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    (Original post by Kinkerz)
    Early clinical exposure isn't just about learning how diseases present, it's more about building your confidence talking to patients. I've found it useful in that sense. Next year when I start clinical medicine, I'll inevitably feel more comfortable in a ward environment and in talking to patients. I'm actually a better medical student because of it. Yeah, I've not got much in terms of science, but I think people underestimate just how important good communication is.
    Yeah, that's what you are lead to believe...

    The thing is, the amount of exposure you get to patients is huge as a clinical student. All you have to do is look at the Oxbridge transfers to discount the argument of early patient contact making better doctors. I saw a girl in my first firm progress from putting her tubes in the wrong way around and couldn't take a BP to being an amazing student and winning our first firm "Mars bar award" from the HOs for being the best medical student (obvs I joint won that one )

    Also, people underestimate how much people want doctors to know their ****...
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    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    Should havecome to the AGM haha.

    Basically your clinical modules are getting mixed around a bit - and your 4th year will be one exam right at the end.
    So 4th year will no longer be just the specialities. [My year next year will be the last year with just specialities and the exams every 12 weeks].
    And as you already know 3rd year BSc compulsory, but more integrated to the rest of the course rather than being like a year out etc
    Ugh, **** that. That sounds grim. THEY NEED TO STOP CHANGING THINGS.
    Though on the bright side at least there will be a couple of years to act as guinea pigs before I get to 4th year.
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    (Original post by Jessaay!)
    Ugh, **** that. That sounds grim. THEY NEED TO STOP CHANGING THINGS.
    Though on the bright side at least there will be a couple of years to act as guinea pigs before I get to 4th year.
    Ironically - for me I thrive on one end of year exams - so it'd be better! I like to cram cram cram at the end
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    also, I know it's not part of our curriculum for phase 1 that we learn how to take histories and that kind of thing - but I think that's part of the whole reason we've got doctors to take us for PDS.

    I've learnt a lot of clinical stuff from my tutor, like how to take a real history and how to write a real referral letter (not just the portfolio box-ticking ones) from just using the opportunity to ask a doctor.

    but if PDS goes then so much for that! =\
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Yeah, that's what you are lead to believe...

    The thing is, the amount of exposure you get to patients is huge. All you have to do is look at the Oxbridge transfers to discount the argument of early patient contact making better doctors. I saw a girl in my first firm progress from putting her tubes in the wrong way around and couldn't take a BP to being an amazing student and winning our first firm "Mars bar award" from the HOs for being the best medical student (obvs I joint won that one )

    Also, people underestimate how much people want doctors to know their ****...
    I agree. No doubt I'll **** up when I get to clinics at various points, but I will definitely learn. That and we have done brief "clinical skills" sessions in first year so far... went straight over my head, didn't know what I was doing and don't feel any more prepared to do any sort of examinations on patients and don't know what the hell they're for... but I will be in a better position to know when I get there, and there's a huge likelihood that even if I did understand first time round I'd forget it all anyway by the time I get to clinical years :p:
 
 
 
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