Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Well apparently the BBC are pro pali scum , and the only reliable sources of information in the eyes of our pro IDF friends are FOX and Haaretz :rolleyes:
    Let me get this straight, if somebody makes remarks on their observations that don't agree with your opinion, then the corporation they work for is clearly supporting the other side and are therefore scum?

    And I wouldn't trust a word coming from Fox anyway, they're practically the arse of international journalism.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheTechN1304)
    If it weren't for the ignorance and stupidity of your 'Muslim brothers and sisters' they wouldn't be dying. Palestinians want to destroy Israel. They are the ones at fault. All death to their people could have been prevented had they not mercilessly been attacking Israel. What do you expect? Israel to happily not fight back?
    Rockets fired into israel: 1800 individual rockets
    Amounts of IDF attack on gaza: 1000 tonnes of explosives and rockets into high population density areas.
    Great comparison, I wonder which attack is the merciless attack.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CJKay)
    Choose your position:

    "I..."

    • Support the IDF massacring 1000 Palestinian civilians because I am a moron
    • Support Hamas's consistent and careless objective to wipe Israel from the map because I am a moron
    • Support CJKay's post but am choosing to be a **** about it because I am a moron
    I like how you phrased that, though I'm personally much more interested in your opinion. Considering you're bashing me for being pro-Israel, my guess is that you take position number 2. As to where I stand, well, unfortunately my stance isn't listed. I choose option number 4:

    Support Israel's actions, due to the fact that Palestinians are morons, and their attempts to destroy Israel shouldn't go unpunished
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    No, there wasn't. Show me a link demonstrating this cease fire was in place? There was no such ceasefire in place last weekend
    According to the international aid workers who were with the unfortunate young man, the IDF soldiers did the deed during an announced ceasefire.

    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    My dear boy, you seem to be confused. Whether or not the Israeli sniper made a mistake, whether or not he's a murderous criminal, that has absolutely nothing to do with it being a matter of Israeli state policy.


    Where is the proof that it was ordered by the Israeli high command?
    Obviously Israel would not make public its plans for genocide as there would be an outcry.
    What sort of proof exactly are you seeking? A written consent from an IDF general that killing Palestinian civilians is a-ok? Does a piece that practically amounts to a death warrant for all Gazans written by the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset suffice? Perhaps you would care to gain some perspective on why what's currently going on in Gaza is going on?

    Or do you earnestly believe that Israel doesn't know the sort of murderous 'brave young' characters it sends into Gaza on these lethal excursions?


    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    I'm sorry, this link is directly from the United Nations

    http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-...ne-its-schools
    That is NOT the school in question, and those were NOT confirmed to be Hamas rockets.


    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    If you believe that then you're an idiot. They might have had faulty intelligence, they might have had a technical fault in their weaponry.

    The Americans accidentally kill their own soldiers on a regular basis in friendly fire incidents, and you're saying they don't target by mistake? You clearly know nothing about the modern battlefield
    Do you even know what 'friendly fire' is?

    But I say, you seem to derive some special sort of pleasure from giving the murderous scum of the IDF so much benefit of doubt. Perhaps you should seek enlightenment as to the sort of people who join it and perpetrate the atrocities that have caused such furore.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Rockets fired into israel: 1800
    Amounts of IDF attack on gaza: 1000 tonnes of explosives and rockets into high population density areas.
    Great comparison, I wonder which attack is the merciless attack.
    You forget to mention that Palestine started this goddamn mess by trying to destroy Israel in the first place. I feel inclined to say "they deserve what they get"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by well in the dark)
    Obviously Israel would not make public its plans for genocide as there would be an outcry.
    If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any left by now. It's as simple as that
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    :lol: You realise Ha'aretz is a left-wing pro-peace publication?

    If you're confusing Ha'aretz and Jpost, it's clear you don't have the first clue about this conflict
    Well from the articles I have read so far over there, doesn't seem too peace inclined, and if that is the most left wing passive journalism from israel I dare not imagine the things the right wing ultra conservatives write.
    Either way, the jist of my post which you quoted is clear. Regardless of pedantics.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let me get this straight, if somebody makes remarks on their observations that don't agree with your opinion, then the corporation they work for is clearly supporting the other side and are therefore scum?

    And I wouldn't trust a word coming from Fox anyway, they're practically the arse of international journalism.

    I think he was being sarcastic. A very nice use of satire if I am right
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheTechN1304)
    You forget to mention that Palestine started this goddamn mess by trying to destroy Israel in the first place. I feel inclined to say "they deserve what they get"
    Well, I didn't expect any better from you any way.
    Great humanity shown here and human empathy
    I assume these innocent kids deserve what they got.
    Atleast they have left this cruel world, and they cannot be hurt anymore.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any left by now. It's as simple as that
    Good job on ignoring everything else in that post that should rightly level your position.

    As for this ridiculous notion that if Israel wanted genocide, then there wouldn't be any left now: the world is not so depraved as to stand by and silently watch a full-fledged Zionist genocide against the Palestinian people in particular.

    Did you click on the links I posted? One of them was a piece by the leader of a faction in Netanyahu's own Likud Party, the current governing party of Israel. It is basically a manifesto for murder. Coming from any other country, what that piece contains would be seen as the ravings of a fascist. But for an Israeli politician, for some unfathomable reason, that seems not to be the case.

    Notwithstanding your reluctance to seek enlightenment on the matter, I'll provide you it, and you may thank me later.
    To summarise the piece I'm talking about, what the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset offers by way of solution to the crisis in Gaza is that:
    1. Attack Gaza with full force (after, for form's sake, giving a warning). Civilian casualties be damned.
    2. Expel the vast bulk of the population who aren't killed. Send them into Egypt.
    3. Annex Gaza to the already annexed West Bank.
    4. Let a few thousand stay if they're prepared to be totally subservient.

    These are genocidal ravings reminiscent of the Holocaust. Not so in Israel. The Israeli's sense of entitlement to land is used as a bludgeon to justify the most outrageous policies and proposals.
    Israel may not be committing full-fledged genocide in Gaza. For this small mercy we're supposed to be thankful. But Israeli policy and public opinion are headed surely and steadily in a genocidal direction. It is only a matter of time until Moshe Feiglin's position (or something roughly similar, differing only on points of practicalities) becomes that of the State of Israel. Unless, of course, something is done in the meantime to prevent it.

    None but a deluded person could pretend that Israel is the saint you are making Israel out to be.
    What is the meaning of Israel's periodic frenzied rampages in Gaza, have you ever wondered?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Joan Rivers can educate you. 207,317 views in less than a day

    This is not so surprising coming from a Jew who makes money in Hollywood.

    But this is quite surprising coming from a Jewish entertainer who makes holocaust jokes and had rhinoplasty 8 times.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    :lol: You realise Ha'aretz is a left-wing pro-peace publication?

    If you're confusing Ha'aretz and Jpost, it's clear you don't have the first clue about this conflict
    Actually, the Haaretz publishes all sorts of pieces, left-wing as well as right-wing. It is by no means an exclusively left-wing publication.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Well, I didn't expect any better from you any way.
    Great humanity shown here and human empathy
    I assume these innocent kids deserve what they got.
    Atleast they have left this cruel world, and they cannot be hurt anymore.
    Of course no Israelis have died, right? Obviously you're going to be biased towards Palestine as you're Muslim, and so any wrong doing by Palestine (ie starting the conflict) will be completely ignored by you. I therefore do not wish to involve myself in a conversation with you that is guaranteed to go nowhere. Good night
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheTechN1304)
    Of course no Israelis have died, right? Obviously you're going to be biased towards Palestine as you're Muslim, and so any wrong doing by Palestine (ie starting the conflict) will be completely ignored by you. I therefore do not wish to involve myself in a conversation with you that is guaranteed to go nowhere. Good night
    I have empathy and human sympathy for any wrongly killed civilian regardless of race or creed.
    Unlike your scummy comments about innocents deserving to die coz they are arabs or muslim.
    Go take your bigotry somewhere else.
    The conversation will not go anywhere as you only see with a vision blurred by bigotry and religious hate, and no care for the human loss and catastrophe this war is.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I have empathy and human sympathy for any wrongly killed civilian regardless of race or creed.
    Unlike your scummy comments about innocents deserving to die coz they are arabs or muslim.
    Go take your bigotry somewhere else.
    The conversation will not go anywhere as you only see with a vision blurred by bigotry and religious hate, and no care for the human loss and catastrophe this war is.
    I do have empathy. They don't deserve to die because they're Muslim. What I've said is that this war is the fault of Palestine, so you being completely anti Israel is ridiculous, when it's the Palestinians that started this mess in the first place.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by well in the dark)

    What is the meaning of Israel's periodic frenzied rampages in Gaza, have you ever wondered?
    What is the meaning of Hamas repeatedly firing rockets into Israel? Have you ever wondered?

    Again, why are you whining about Israel's attack on Gaza? This is exactly what Hamas wanted, and this is exactly what they knew they were going to get.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    hamas and fatah have the right of resistance and what was that about a 10 year truce offered by hamas if israel lift the economic siege <- someone check this for me. look at the way britain dealt with the PIRA who are pretty much the catholic version of hamas. did we bomb and invade dublin? no =.=.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by filthy_pup)
    What is the meaning of Hamas repeatedly firing rockets into Israel? Have you ever wondered?

    Again, why are you whining about Israel's attack on Gaza? This is exactly what Hamas wanted, and this is exactly what they knew they were going to get.
    Why are you disregarding all the insightful context provided in that article? Ignorance is bliss, what?
    I never told you that I agreed with Hamas, so I don't see how that has anything to do with what I'm saying.
    Top Israeli government officials express poisonous, genocidal sentiments regarding Palestinians. Israel intentionally targets civilians: Israel intentionally shot dead that man, and Israel intentionally hit a school. Who knows why, for all you know they were probably testing how far they could go before the world would heave.
    Hamas may fire rockets into Israel but by all accounts Hamas does not use human shields.
    Israel does not attack Gaza because of Hamas; Hamas is only a convenient scapegoat.
    I do not condone rocket attacks on Israeli civilians, but I certainly do not believe that the rocket attacks are the reason why Israel pretends to go mad in Gaza every now and then.
    Why should I not wine, as you put it, about Israel's attack on Gaza? When Israel is committing murder and getting away with it, you'd have to be a singularly heartless sort of fiend to not protest.
    Who gives a **** what Hamas wants? Did I say I did?
    Your defence of Israel has no logical argument, your excuses are pathetic and inadequate at best, and if you have the crust to stand up for blatant murderers then you are hardly human.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ahmadalkarute)
    - that's true. I do believe every group of people has some sort of brainwashing, but the recent trend is the brainwashing of people to trust that western culture and choices are the best, and its a bit disappointing. many people lose faith in God, and even lose their humanity.
    Western culture has brought many technological advancements, including the computer, Internet, airplanes, telephones, cars, and so on. It is interesting how some people wish to accept Western technology but do not wish to accept the Western ideas of freedom and democracy.

    People losing faith in God is not Western culture's fault. It is each person's responsibility to freely decide whether to believe in and seek God or not. Jesus, by the way, prophesied the following:
    (I boldened some in all the quotes in my reply.)

    'Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.' - Matthew 24:9-14 (NIV)

    So, it is no surprise that many people lose faith in God. That was bound to happen.


    The second America says they're going to attack someone, people now think its ok without thinking twice about it (obviously there are exceptions, but you get what im saying)
    Many Americans protest the USA attacking other countries, including me.

    -- I do not believe the empire ever gave up land unless it hurt their economy or their reputation. Ex: they kept America and earned money and natural recourses from the country until the people fought back and they were loosing money from the destroyed ships, dead troops, and the money they were spending implementing their laws. They also had India until Gandhi. Gandhi was not able to persuade them to give up the land in court, so he had to protest, and they lost lots of money and international support through embargos.
    Good points.

    - Arab's want an Arab state because if you look at the world's view of Arab's you see that they shun and disapprove of them oftentimes.
    Arabs already have many states: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, U.A.E., Yemen, Qatar, Morocco, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Oman, and so on. Many of these states/areas were conquered by Muslim Arabs long time ago. Why then do they not allow the Jewish people their one Jewish state? I personally think that is very unfair of the Arab people.
    They feel like the whole world is against them, and so they have no protection. they have to protect themselves.
    It's possible that the concept of jihad is why they feel the 'whole world' (or many people around the world who are not Muslim) is against them.

    Russia is in a similar situation. Russia does not conform with the west and so Europe is slowly trying to dismantle it. the USSR failed in '92 and they lost a large portion of their land. Now the EU is enticing many countries between Russia and the rest of Europe into the EU although they are in the Eurasian Union. Once these countries join their sphere of influence will spread. Once it spread, they will take more parts of Russia until it conforms and turns into another "western" country.
    Did you know for a time, the former Soviet Union did not allow the people of Belarus to even speak their native tongue? Like the West and countries in the Middle East, Russia has her own issues. My friends from Belarus have told me of some grave injustices Russia had done to Belarus.

    Having Israel in the middle of all these Arab states is harmful. If Israel actually was peaceloving there would not be a problem. Like turkey, Arabs love Turkey though they are not Arab. The problem is that once Israel finishes its problems in its own country, it will try to expand. If you look at their maps of the size Israel should be, you'll see that they want to take Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and portions of another country.
    Could you please provide a link concerning Israel wanting to take over Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and so on? Thanks.


    - yes, and I feel special when I came to live in Jerusalem also. My family on the other side of the wall feels special when they were aloud to visit the al-Aqsa mosque 2 months back. they didn't leave it the whole time they were hear (they live half an hour away, but have not been aloud to visit it. My uncle hasn't seen it since he was a teenager, and his daughter who is 18 has never seen it before other than on tv). My point in saying all this is that everyone should have the right to visit the land. I never said I would like to forbid the jews from visiting, or living here. I just think that oppressing the other people that live here isn't the right way to go about it.
    It is sad that your family has not been allowed to visit the al-Aqsa mosque frequently. It is also sad that the Jewish people have not been allowed to rebuild their temple. Both the Arab and Jewish sides of the conflict are very sad. I am glad you are not for forbidding Jewish people from living in the land where their forefathers once lived. That is good news.

    It would be awesome if both Arab and Jewish people could live in peace and that Arab Muslims could freely go to the al-Aqsa mosque and Jewish people could freely rebuild and go to their temple. Now, I understand there's a problem in that it's possible the Temple is supposed to be rebuilt where the Dome of the Rock stands. However, I wonder if it's possible for them to rebuild it in another place in Jerusalem? That would be cool to study.

    Some Christians believe that Jesus will return to the rebuilt temple, due to what Jesus said:
    (I boldened some.)

    'So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.' (Matthew 24:15-16 NIV)

    In order for people to see standing in the holy place the abomination that Jesus talks about, the holy place (which is considered to be in the temple) assumedly needs to be rebuilt.

    Some Christians, including me, believe Ezekiel 37 is about Jesus returning! God taking the children of Israel 'from among the heathen' and bringing the children of Israel 'into their own land' predates Jesus' return:
    (I boldened some.)

    '37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
    37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
    37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them;
    and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
    37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
    37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
    37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. '
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...Ezekiel37.html

    - well I guess that is common. that is why you are not a muslim :P. I would like to thoroughly read one day
    I am not a Muslim because I believe Muhammad is one of the false prophets Jesus prophesied would come (Matthew 24:11; 24:24). Muhammad disobeyed Jesus' commands to love one's enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37), much like the Crusaders later disobeyed Jesus' commands to love one's enemies.
    - I have heard of, read, and been educated about the circumstances of this declaration (by an American teacher. he was neither pro Palestine, nor Israel). This declaration was sent to the Jews without the Arabs knowing. Anyway I was talking about before the declaration (sorry for not specifying). before the declaration Arabs were told that they'd have their own country, that is why they made their own flag and coins and everything.
    Something I just learned is that the British empire killed more than 2,000 Arab people during the Arab uprising in Palestine against the British. That is sad. I wish everyone, including the English, the Arabs and the Jewish and Americans and so on were peaceful and didn't kill each other.

    Please see from 19:00 of this youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0

    All of the youtube is insightful.

    - the word Zionist back then has a different meaning than the word now.
    How so? Did King David not conquer Jerusalem from the Jebusites and did King David not kill many Philistines? Palestine is the Romanized version of Philistine.

    - I do believe it is a prophecy that they believe in, but as a religious Jew told me here: the prophecy never said anything about massacres and apartheid, that is why I do not support Israel. If you meet an orthodox Jew one day, you should talk to them. They usually disapprove of the creation of Israel.
    Sadly, many Orthodox Jewish people do not accept Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah. So, while they disapprove of the creation of Israel, they also disapprove of Jesus Christ and do not accept him as the Messiah. Of course they are free to reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah, same as they are free to oppose Israel.

    - I think that what you have been taught is wrong. I know that he conquered areas to spread Islam, but he did not go killing and enslaving civilians. Prophet Mohammad was actually known for his hatred for slavery. Slavery was not aloud during his time. Did you know he also developed one of the first democratic systems.
    Was his Jewish wife not a part of the booty, the slaves of the Jewish women and children whose men were killed by Muhammad's followers? The following hadith is very sad:
    (I boldened some.)

    Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz:

    Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khalbar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle ."
    http://sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh1/bh1_367.htm

    I wonder if Muhammad would have manumitted this poor 17 year old girl who had lost her father to death by the hand of Muslims, as well as her former husband, if she had not converted to the religion of the killers of the men of her tribe and decided to marry Muhammad? It appears that Muhammad did not manumit any other poor slave girl who was given to other people, like to this Dihya, who Muhammad told to 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.'

    The Qur'an has no problem with Muslims taking captives/slaves, people that their 'right hand possesses' and marrying them.

    '4:3 (Y. Ali) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. '

    '4:24 (Y. Ali) Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. '

    24:31 (Y. Ali) And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

    While the Qur'an does advocate freeing slaves as consequences for the owner's bad behavior, isn't it best to simply not enslave people in the first place???

    '4:92 (Y. Ali) Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.'

    '5:89 (Y. Ali) Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful. '

    Again, isn't it better not to possess people with one's right hand (enslave them/make them captives) in the first place???

    People that lived in a Muslim owned area did have to pay Jizya. it was a taxes every nonmuslim had to pay. would you like to know why muslims did not pay it? Muslims did not pay it because they had to pay Zakkat. This zakat is a percentage of your annual earnings that you pay every Eid. this money goes to feeding and housing the poor. The nonmuslims paid this in the form of jizya because he did not want to impose his religions on them, but if they did not pay people would go hungry, so he found a middle ground.
    The following verse from the Qur'an makes it seem that the jizya is punishment for not accepting Islam:

    '9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    9:30 (Y. Ali) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
    '

    I understand that our teachings are different. I am also taught negative things about Christianity and Judaism. this is what you were talking about with the everyone being brainwashed.
    I know that most Muslims are taught that Jews and Christians corrupted their Scriptures. However, I personally think that is an insult to God, since God does not allow His Scripture to be corrupted.
    Anyway it was so long ago that we don't really know the truth. All we know is what we hear, and we have to choose whether or not we believe it.
    I trust God to have protected the Truth in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. Christians believe that the Jewish Scriptures are not corrupted, which is why the Old Testament is a part of the Christian Bible. We do not accuse God of allowing His Word to be corrupted.

    - it is not hatred, it is more of warning. It tells nonbelieves to beware. We believe that those who were not properly educated about our religion will not be punished.
    Muhammad wishing Allah's curse on Jews and Christians seems hateful to me. However, Jesus Christ tells his followers (and obviously Muhammad did not follow Jesus Christ like the Crusaders later on in history didn't truly follow Jesus Christ either) to bless those who curse:

    'But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.'
    Luke 6:27-28 (NIV)

    As you know, muslims believe in both Christianity and Judaism, but we believed that the books have been changed and the teachings perverted. [/QUOTE]

    Again, I believe it is an insult to God, since God protects the Scriptures He gave to the Jews and to Christians (the earliest Christians being Jews, including the apostles who walked and talked with Yeshua/Jesus and taught other people about him).

    - I do not support the right of the country called "Israel",with all its current apartheidal laws, to exist. I do support the idea of Jews remaining here and living with Arabs, and developing a fair system that we can both live under.
    Do you support the idea of having one Jewish state in the world, which is in the land of their forefathers according to Ezekiel 37?

    - I think they should invite them back to live with them, but I do not think that they should leave. I do not believe Arabs fought the jews (obviously small instances of hatred occur in every country, but I am just talking about the majority here) until the jews started forcing the idea of a jewish state just for jew upon them.
    Why does the idea of a Jewish state scare Arab people so much and/or fill them with hatred?
    Another problem is that mecca and medina are only holy to Muslims.
    True. It is actually a blessing to Muslims and Islam that Mecca and Medina are not holy to Judaism or Christianity.

    Jerusalem is holy to muslims, Christians, and jews. So, anyone that wants to live here should be able to.
    As a Gentile Christian, I personally think both Christianity and Islam should give Jerusalem back to Judaism. I do not believe Muhammad truly flew on a winged steed from Arabia to Jerusalem.

    While as a Christian, I of course would love to walk where Jesus Christ walked, I don't think Christians should control Jerusalem or prevent the Jewish people from rebuilding the temple. Freedom of religion includes Judaism and Judaism's holy city Jerusalem, in my opinion.

    Thanks so much for your kindness, courtesy and professionalism in your discussion with me. I appreciate it and thank you so much for your time. Blessings and salam/shalom/peace

    May God have mercy on both the Arabs and Jewish people in the land and may they both grow in obeying Yeshua/Isa/Jesus' command to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27-37).
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    I do believe that Israel's claim to ownership based on primacy and divine revelation is unjust. So given two such unjust claims, I must base my view of legitimacy on some other factor. Perhaps the respect of the state for the natural rights of man, perhaps the standard of security and prosperity provided to the clients of the state, perhaps the integrity and honesty of its democratic forms, perhaps by brute ability to prevail in a struggle of life and death - on one, or many, of these, Israel and Palestine must be weighed in the balance. Which do you choose?
    I choose common sense and human decency none of which involves apartheid or making millions refugees so you could establish a ethnoreligious state.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 8, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.