The Manchester United Thread XX

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    Bailly fast becoming one of my favourite players.
    https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/...67863117168641
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    Mourinho might play Smalling as cdm vs city 😉
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    Think the idea we are formidable or the idea we haven't been playing well are both wrong tbh. Typical of Jose, he's building defensively first and foremost, bar Madrid all his sides are built upon being good defensive teams. We are genuinely a good defensive side at this stage, without having to restrict ourselves like under LVG. The attack is quite incoherent but with the way we we playing it should get better. We've got a lot of creativity but seeing as Jose seems to be going with the organic rather than the organised it's going to take time for those players to build understanding, a player like Mkhitaryan for example is still finding his feet. In both games we've been able to create chances when we were required to and restrict chances at the right times. That's more what I was saying about yesterday although we didn't score we were creating the chances at a better rate than previous games, indicating our conservative nature may have been more a result of the score lines than inability. Still the attack worries me the most about us at present.

    What Morgan must be doing in training is bizarre. He on paper seems like a Jose player. Think it might just be a case of time, being under Poch, and LVG the man orientated pressing game is probably not what Jose wants, but He was arguable best under Koeman so he must be somewhat capable. Perhaps it's just Jose loving Fellaini, and tbf he's been good, but he's barely even had a substitute look in.


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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    I've seen all of United's games and they have 9 points without even having a particularly good game. Under LVG you can guarantee they would have 3/4.

    As the cliche goals, a sign of champions is winning when you don't play well, and United have been excellent at that so far.

    Nah Arsenal are poor, very poor. Watford were tearing them apart in the 2nd half, and we absolutely destroyed them in 20 minutes.
    We are not ready physically yet, perhaps thats Wenger's fault, but the team is only just starting to pick up its physical levels. I don't buy the hype with United. Pogba looks like a glorified John Obi Mikel.
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    Looks like Aguero may not face us in the derby, after appearing to swing out an elbow at Winston Reid. I imagine the FA retrospective committee will be looking into that one...
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    Why they look like Charmander and Charizard



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    They don't at all
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    Charmander looks so cute there
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    That's more what I was saying about yesterday although we didn't score we were creating the chances at a better rate than previous games, indicating our conservative nature may have been more a result of the score lines than inability. Still the attack worries me the most about us at present.
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    Mourinho does that a lot, whenever the side are 2 goals up he doesn't really see the point of wasting energy scoring more goals, he doesn't rotate a lot so over a season so makes up for it playing at a lower intensity and more conservative when possible. Boring as hell but you didn't really see his Chelsea sides hit people for 6 a lot for a reason.

    Attack against smaller teams has always been a problem for Mourinho teams because they usually open up less and sit deep. We usually thrashed teams when small teams tried to play like big teams.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Sub appearance to do something and putting on a player when you're chasing a game.

    He also did the same with Kenedy and Loftus Cheek a few times. If you're chasing a game or trying to score you put on forwards, if you're shutting a game you put on defensive subs. The attacking options after Mkhitaryan(who came on first) was Rashford or Young, ones basically a defender for the other team. Does it mean he's getting starts, na. De Bruyne also came on a few times and so did Juan Mata at Chelsea and he got shipped off 3 months later.

    I want you lot to beat City personally, fear that they have a few gears to step up and if they're getting results now it's going to be a struggle catching them when they do hit serious form.
    Soz late reply

    Mourinho doesn't integrate untested players from the youth system into the first team, but we've seen throughout his career that he'll play young players if they've shown they're good enough at the senior level - Santon, Balotelli, Varane, Zouma. Rashford's clearly in that category.

    He doesn't need league starts right now, at age 18 sub appearances and cup starts are plenty and that seems to be what he'll get based on what Jose said yesterday:
    Spoiler:
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    “Marcus will play a lot. I cannot choose competitions. I cannot say Zlatan Ibrahimovic doesn’t play one single match in the Europa League because that is not the case. I cannot say Marcus doesn’t start matches in the Premier League because that is not the case. He is a young and talented player. We didn’t buy more strikers. We bought one, not two or three or four. If you don’t trust him, or want him to play, we buy other strikers. Zlatan is playing and showing why and Marcus is striker No2 at the moment. For an 18-year-old boy, he is amazing.”

    So Jose will keep giving him games and if he keeps playing as he has done there's no reason he won't be trusted as the main striker once Ibra leaves, presumably in 2018-19. Or who knows maybe even next season with him theoretically improving a lot and Ibra declining.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Soz late reply

    Mourinho doesn't integrate untested players from the youth system into the first team, but we've seen throughout his career that he'll play young players if they've shown they're good enough at the senior level - Santon, Balotelli, Varane, Zouma. Rashford's clearly in that category.

    He doesn't need league starts right now, at age 18 sub appearances and cup starts are plenty and that seems to be what he'll get based on what Jose said yesterday:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    “Marcus will play a lot. I cannot choose competitions. I cannot say Zlatan Ibrahimovic doesn’t play one single match in the Europa League because that is not the case. I cannot say Marcus doesn’t start matches in the Premier League because that is not the case. He is a young and talented player. We didn’t buy more strikers. We bought one, not two or three or four. If you don’t trust him, or want him to play, we buy other strikers. Zlatan is playing and showing why and Marcus is striker No2 at the moment. For an 18-year-old boy, he is amazing.”
    So Jose will keep giving him games and if he keeps playing as he has done there's no reason he won't be trusted as the main striker once Ibra leaves, presumably in 2018-19. Or who knows maybe even next season with him theoretically improving a lot and Ibra declining.
    To an extent I agree, however the guy messed up on De Bruyne, he's also messed up on Schurrle and Bertrand, who have shown their qualities before hand. Saying that Guardiola didn't actually get a single Bayern youth squad product playing regularly in the first team and he's highly heralded for his youth strategy. In fact LVG is the only manager to do this consistently.

    In terms of untested players, he tends to give starts to them every now and again(Morata/Jese/Loftus Cheek) but not play them often enough to really give them a chance to gain form. He doesn't stay at a club for long enough too, when he starts to use the youth he's probably leaving end of that season anyway.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Mourinho does that a lot, whenever the side are 2 goals up he doesn't really see the point of wasting energy scoring more goals, he doesn't rotate a lot so over a season so makes up for it playing at a lower intensity and more conservative when possible. Boring as hell but you didn't really see his Chelsea sides hit people for 6 a lot for a reason.

    Attack against smaller teams has always been a problem for Mourinho teams because they usually open up less and sit deep. We usually thrashed teams when small teams tried to play like big teams.
    Ancelotti's title winning Chelsea side was my favourite for the reason that they just absolutely obliterated teams 8-0.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    To an extent I agree, however the guy messed up on De Bruyne, he's also messed up on Schurrle and Bertrand, who have shown their qualities before hand. Saying that Guardiola didn't actually get a single Bayern youth squad product playing regularly in the first team and he's highly heralded for his youth strategy. In fact LVG is the only manager to do this consistently.

    In terms of untested players, he tends to give starts to them every now and again(Morata/Jese/Loftus Cheek) but not play them often enough to really give them a chance to gain form. He doesn't stay at a club for long enough too, when he starts to use the youth he's probably leaving end of that season anyway.
    He didn't really mess up on De Bruyne, it was a case of right place at the wrong time. At the time, Mourinho was keeping Oscar at AM because of his industry and Hazard (Young Player of the Year) on the left, so he was basically competing with Willian, Mata and Schurrle for the same spot, so obviously his chances were limited. When he did get them in the cup games, he underperformed so would rightly have to wait. However in January, he asked to leave despite Mourinho stating that he was part of his plans going forward (especially as Mata was sold that month).

    I don't really think he messed up on Schurrle, as he was a benchwarmer when he was sold for £20 million.

    Bertrand I'm not sure is a top four full back.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    He didn't really mess up on De Bruyne, it was a case of right place at the wrong time. At the time, Mourinho was keeping Oscar at AM because of his industry and Hazard (Young Player of the Year) on the left, so he was basically competing with Willian, Mata and Schurrle for the same spot, so obviously his chances were limited. When he did get them in the cup games, he underperformed so would rightly have to wait. However in January, he asked to leave despite Mourinho stating that he was part of his plans going forward (especially as Mata was sold that month).

    I don't really think he messed up on Schurrle, as he was a benchwarmer when he was sold for £20 million.

    Bertrand I'm not sure is a top four full back.
    He was competing for a place but wasn't given a fair chance and was sold to fund the Matic and Zouma deals. He could have told De Bruyne to stay and actually manage the player rather than ship him off the second he threw a strop. There is also Salah who despite me being unsure of his quality wasn't even given a chance under Mourinho. He's doing well in Serie A too.

    Bertrand is and could be clearly if he played at Chelsea. It's a sure hell better keeping him than having the full back situation we currently have.

    Schurrle was a bench warmer because Mourinho made him one... Obviously Mourinho will play a player if he is good enough, but only if he is good enough and there is not a realistic reason to not use him(i.e. juggling games and him being capable).

    Anyway don't want to antagonise this thread with Anti Mourinho jibes as this conversation is Chelsea talk mainly.
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    Imagine the uproar if Fellaini or Costa flung their elbow out like Aguero did.

    Fabinho in? Good RB and can also play CDM. Him and Pogba is physical goals.
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    I think you guys are obviously happy with your transfer window but do you think that there are any clear positions of concern at the moment personnel wise?

    Also if Fabinho comes in your squad is officially stacked and you should really have no excuses to not win the league.

    You also have the solution to the game vs City if Fellaini is out injured.
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    Fabinho is 6,2 as well. Jose going to town on the height thing.

    Personally still feel ST is our lightest position. Ibra's age is a worry, Rooney can't do it, Rashford is still too young to by loading that on, and Martial doesn't move well for a 9. Don't feel confident in having a weekly source of goals, even if we have a lot of people who can chip in. Do feel we will have to improve a lot in attack to get points against good organised defensive side like Chelsea. We've got the quality individually against plenty of sides, but well drilled sides who will happily let us try to build up against them, I don't know if the attack is cohesive enough to apply sustained pressure.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    I think you guys are obviously happy with your transfer window but do you think that there are any clear positions of concern at the moment personnel wise?

    Also if Fabinho comes in your squad is officially stacked and you should really have no excuses to not win the league.

    You also have the solution to the game vs City if Fellaini is out injured.
    Providing Martial gets back in form and we get Fabinho I'd say you're right we should be winning the league.
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    (Original post by Rk2k14)
    Imagine the uproar if Fellaini or Costa flung their elbow out like Aguero did.

    Fabinho in? Good RB and can also play CDM. Him and Pogba is physical goals.
    hmm Fellaini gets away with throwing elbows more than any other player..
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    Really do wish that the Manchester derby was a bit more later in the first half of the season. City look a bit sharper than us atm imo and that opening 25 minutes against West Ham was great. If we can keep things tight during the opening first 20-25 minutes then City should eventually tire and we can take advantage of it through our counter attacks, especially if we get Rashford off the bench.

    The build up to the derby is going to be incredible :coma:

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